My new Custom GMAC build, now a BBSHD as well

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
I recently reprogrammed my Ultra with the Frey endorsed "Smooth" settings. To say I'm super impressed with the results is a huge understatement. This is how torque sensing and this big torque monster are supposed to work. There is now a 400w spread for each PAS level, leaving a giant overlap from one to the next. This allows for far fewer PAS level changes when riding in rolling terrain.


Point being, this programming is a game changer. I'm totally blown away, and though I love my MAC 12t, THIS software change is causing some real soul searching regarding my next bike (I'm a snowbird, and keep a bike at each end). -Al
 

linklemming

Well-Known Member
I recently reprogrammed my Ultra with the Frey endorsed "Smooth" settings. To say I'm super impressed with the results is a huge understatement. This is how torque sensing and this big torque monster are supposed to work. There is now a 400w spread for each PAS level, leaving a giant overlap from one to the next. This allows for far fewer PAS level changes when riding in rolling terrain.


Point being, this programming is a game changer. I'm totally blown away, and though I love my MAC 12t, THIS software change is causing some real soul searching regarding my next bike (I'm a snowbird, and keep a bike at each end). -Al
I appreciate you sharing your Ultra programming experiences. It was a major reason I was trying to get an Ultra bike.

I havent seen any ultra equipped bikes that interest me except for the WW offerings.

The Titanium UC pro frameset would have been perfect for me.
1.) I love bare metal Ti bikes
2.) Battery would be compatible with my current Surly Troll GMAC bike.

Im pretty bummed that WW didnt have any non fat bike frames left. Oh well, A helios is in my future probably next year

I have been trying to decide what to do with this new build

CYC Stealth: $850
Pros: Torque sensing powerful mid-drive
Cons: All proprietary, only 1 source for parts and such. I dont want to be the beta tester.
Unknowns: Noise. This is a huge factor for me

BBSHD with Eggrider Display: $800
Pros: Well understood platform, most parts can be purchased. Versatile Eggrider Display. Quiet
Cons: Eggrider display is awesome but some things can be hard to read. I would like to be able to setup a custom screen with assist level, WH used and speed all in big fonts...still researching
No torque sensing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BBSHD with Phaserunner and CA3: $950
Pros: Can be REALLY fast with FOC, Quiet, better at extended climbing, CA3 flexibility especially with PAS (can increase/decrease power based on cadence), could do comparisons between mid-drive and hub drive
Cons: No torque sensing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GMAC 10T with Phaserunner and CA3: $950
Pros: Quiet and powerful for everything I have done so far. Torque Sensing, Close to perfect, can easily swap things with my current GMAC build
Cons: Not the best for extended super steep terrain (hasnt been a problem yet)
 
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AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
So just so I understand, you would consider an Ultra if you could find a frame? Have you considered buying a production bike, maybe a Rize or M2S (or whatever), to get something close to what you are looking for, then use that for a platform to build on?
 

linklemming

Well-Known Member
So just so I understand, you would consider an Ultra if you could find a frame? Have you considered buying a production bike, maybe a Rize or M2S (or whatever), to get something close to what you are looking for, then use that for a platform to build on?
Yes, I considered all available Ultra Frame options including the Rize and M2S. Basically I researched every bike that had an Ultra Motor. Its hard to go into all the details I consider but I get quite involved and price all the things I want to change. Im also pretty pick about frames and emotions have their say as well.

None really inspired me. Most were way heavier than I would expect (70+lbs) compared to my DIY GMAC bike at 50lbs, had subpar parts, were fat tire bikes, or had batteries that I would question (Im a stickler for getting a high quality battery hopefully with internally fused cells for safety like from Luna or em3ev). I do like the Dorado battery system although its fugly and can have connector issue like on the Juiced CCX(although mine is fine). Im the same way with batteries as you are with the CA display:cool:

The only bikes/frames which stood out were:

WW Commuter Pro - not available anymore in non fat bike
WW Hydra - long wait time
WW Helios - available when????
Biktrix Ultra Eagle - doesnt show up on their website anymore, who on earth designed that paint scheme (fugly graphics like all the biktrix bikes)?

Since I have a new surly bridge club arriving on sunday, its going to be my next ebike project for this year.

Next year, WW Hydra or WW Helios
 
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AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Struggling for inspiration as well. Fat tires are no longer something I would consider now, with that experience behind me. Makes for slim pickings when considering Ultra powered production bikes.

Point taken regarding batteries.... 😄
-Al
 

linklemming

Well-Known Member
Well I spent too much time researching this and just decided to bite the bullet on a new build.

I did spend a full day playing with the motor simulator at Grin Technologies comparing the GMAC10t to the BBSHD for various riding scenarios (about 20). The bottom line was that the GMAC10t was more efficient for all the riding I typically do up until a 6% grade at which point the BBSHD pulled ahead. The BBSHD could be more efficient in many of these situations if I used a super high cadence like 130+(the BBSHD can struggle at lower human limiting cadence) but thats not how I ride. Even at grades up to 15%, while the MAC10t wasnt as efficient and could overheat, I dont ride grades at that level for very long (I do encounter 20-30% grades every few rides but only for short periods). I actually wrote a document on this just to help me summarize my thoughts but it would stir up alot of controversy if I post it here. This analysis matched my experience riding my GMAC10t for the last 6 months. My rides are an average of many conditions and the GMAC10t is just the best solution overall.

In the end the MAC10t was the winner for all the rides i currently do from my house. While having an identical setup on a second bike makes alot of sense in many ways, I decided to go with the BBSHD (without the beloved torque sensing) initially. If I cant get the Bafang settings to my satisfaction, I will transition to a Grin Phaserunner and Cycle Analyst 3. If I go this route, comparing the mac10t(hub motor) to BBSHD (mid drive) could be interesting :cool:

If I decide to venture more into the steeper rides available around where I live, no questions that the BBSHD is the ticket.

So far:
Surly 700c Bridge Club(BC) in Black (Its a miracle I found this bike, probably last one in the USA), arrived today
BBSHD kit from Luna (seemed the cheapest)
52V Luna Wolf Battery using 30Q cells
Eggrider Display
Lekkie 42t chainring

Not sure which bike the BBSHD will end up on. The troll is probably is a better fit for the BBSHD and the GMAC will be better on the BC. I will provide more details on this in future posts.

The BC arrived today (Fedex delivers on sundays now). Thanks to Nashbar for the quick shipping.

FIrst thought on the BC is that it is a lot leaner bike than the troll. The BC is known as a light tourer and the Troll is designed to tour anywhere. Its very obvious in the construction. The Troll is pretty stiff so a more compliant bike will be welcome.

I will try the original 29 wheels with some wider tires than the stock 41mm. either smartsams in 29x2.1 or Marathon Plus MTB in 29x2.1.

That being said, I have ordered the parts to build my own wheels which will hold 27.5x2.6 Smart Sams and/or Johhny Watts.

Here is a initial pic of the BC
IMG_20210509_231915660_HDR.jpg
 
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AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Could you expand a bit on your choice of wheel components please? Are you going with Halo? 36 spoke? Width? Source?

I need to source a pair to convert my 26" fatty (mistake) to 27.5x 2.4-2.8. If I can't find what I need pre built, I'll have to learn how to lace up a set myself. Rear 170mm dropout is causing me issues. That's a surprise as I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that want to convert - even just for summer use.
Thanks, -Al
 

mclewis1

Member
Region
Canada
City
Fredericton, NB
Well I spent too much time researching this and just decided to bite the bullet on a new build. ...
That sounds very familiar.
Congrats on the new bike, it also looks very familiar ;) . From what I've read that's a fairly rare version of the BC (glossy black, 29/700c, Shimano 11spd) ... mine was the more common black, 27.5, SRAM 12spd. On the road/urban trails I would have preferred to ride the 700c version (lighter wheels) but needed the extra clearance from slightly smaller 27.5 wheels with fenders. Interestingly with 650x50mm tires (Donnelly Strada USB) the wheel circumference is almost identical to the 700x41mm ETs.

I look forward to the mid drive/rear hub discussion. If you do go GMAC on the BC I'll also be really curious where you end up with crankset/chainring choices.

Cheers,
Mark
 

linklemming

Well-Known Member
Could you expand a bit on your choice of wheel components please? Are you going with Halo? 36 spoke? Width? Source?

I need to source a pair to convert my 26" fatty (mistake) to 27.5x 2.4-2.8. If I can't find what I need pre built, I'll have to learn how to lace up a set myself. Rear 170mm dropout is causing me issues. That's a surprise as I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that want to convert - even just for summer use.
Thanks, -Al
I previously used Velocity Blunt 35 30mm inner width 36h Rims(velocityusa,com) on the GMAC equipped bike. They were backordered at the time and it took about 6 weeks to get them. They were $120 each. At that time, there were no Halo Rims available.

I tried to order a second pair of the Blunt rims and they were backordered (you are not made aware of this until after you have completed the order).

For this build, I ordered a set of Halo SAS DH 27.5 30mm inner width 36h rims from halo-usa. They are half the price of the Blunts.

DT swiss rims can also be found at modernbike but they are around $180 each.

The hubs will be Shimano XT HB-M756.

Spokes/nipples and spoke calculator is from wheelbuilder.com. For the GMAC motor, use the spoke calculator and HD Sapin spokes at grin.

I actually did the research awhile back on converting a Juice Ripcurrent to have non-fat bike tires/rims. The stock 26x4 tires have a diameter of 762mm. A 27.5x2.8 tire is 726mm so thats a 18mm BB drop or about 3/4inch. A 29x2.8 would be closer at 764mm.

A good source for tire size info: https://www.bikecalc.com/wheel_size_math
 
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m@Robertson

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
@linklemming I don't know how much you've worked with BBSHD drivetrains, but I don't see you talking about beefing it up. I typically build wheels with a mid-drive build and the back needs special attention thanks to the torque going thru the thing. The BC has 141mm rear spacing, which means Boost QR. My Envoy has that spacing - (the only reason I know what that weird size means). For that bike I used the DT 350 Hybrid hub, which is the only hub I know that is indestructible behind the BBSHD (Pushkar has noted the SunRingle hubs he uses on WW bikes are rated for more torque).

The issue is simple: 160 Nm. The solution is multi-layered. First, the rear cluster's individual cogs dig into the cassette body. Solve that with a 9 speed Shimano HG200 or HG400 as they are welded together steel, which distributes the delivered force across the entire cassette body. But the BC is 11 spd. My Surly BFD came already equipped with the best 11s option I could find: A Sunrace CSMS7 11-40T which is steel and 1-pc-ish thanks to it being bolted together. Also available in an 11-42T. Both are unicorns on the open market right now but keep an eye on ebay.

Underneath the cogs is the cassette body. As usual with a mid steel is real. Alloy cassette bodies are dug into as it is but with 1kw+ its really bad. A steel body under a 1-pc cluster solves this. the Salsa hubs my BFD's wheels came with are steel. Your BC's Novatecs... probably are steel. But underneath the steel body is the last weak spot: pawls. For obvious reasons a 3-pawl body is getting brutal treatment. Thats a common failure point on HD'd emtb hubs that see a lot of singletrack.

The best overall hub solution I have found - it ain't cheap - is the DT 350 Hybrid, which is meant for ebikes and tandems. Its beefier in every way on general principles, and uses a 24T ratchet engagement mech instead of pawls. The 18T on the standard 350's is indestructible as it is. The 24T ratchets on the Hybrids are also solid. Also the steel cassette body you ordinarily have to buy separately for a plain 350 is included with the hub from the factory.

I use a 350 Hybrid (Boost size with QR endcaps swapped in makes it a 141mm) on my Envoy's wheel build. I did not realize it came in a 36H version or I would have used that along with a 36H MTX39 rim. Instead mine uses 32H. IIRC I used DT 2.34 Champ spokes with brass nipples. that combo will take anything you throw at it with a BBSHD even if you just go standard 350 (my only choice, with a steel upgrade, on my fat bikes).

But an alloy cassette body will die for sure. Here's one of mine from a different bike after 1000 miles. Its a 2wd street bike so I was going easy on it, big time. A trail bike with just an HD would be more than double this amount of wear. Left is a DT ratchet alloy. On the right is steel, before it was installed. Several hundred miles later no difference in its look.

bodies-e1570490104570[1].jpg


Good luck on your project!
 
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linklemming

Well-Known Member
@linklemming I don't know how much you've worked with BBSHD drivetrains, but I don't see you talking about beefing it up. I typically build wheels with a mid-drive build and the back needs special attention thanks to the torque going thru the thing. The BC has 141mm rear spacing, which means Boost QR. My Envoy has that spacing - (the only reason I know what that weird size means). For that bike I used the DT 350 Hybrid hub, which is the only hub I know that is indestructible behind the BBSHD (Pushkar has noted the SunRingle hubs he uses on WW bikes are rated for more torque).

The issue is simple: 160 Nm. The solution is multi-layered. First, the rear cluster's individual cogs dig into the cassette body. Solve that with a 9 speed Shimano HG200 or HG400 as they are welded together steel, which distributes the delivered force across the entire cassette body. But the BC is 11 spd. My Surly BFD came already equipped with the best 11s option I could find: A Sunrace CSMS7 11-40T which is steel and 1-pc-ish thanks to it being bolted together. Also available in an 11-42T. Both are unicorns on the open market right now but keep an eye on ebay.

Underneath the cogs is the cassette body. As usual with a mid steel is real. Alloy cassette bodies are dug into as it is but with 1kw+ its really bad. A steel body under a 1-pc cluster solves this. the Salsa hubs my BFD's wheels came with are steel. Your BC's Novatecs... probably are steel. But underneath the steel body is the last weak spot: pawls. For obvious reasons a 3-pawl body is getting brutal treatment. Thats a common failure point on HD'd emtb hubs that see a lot of singletrack.

The best overall hub solution I have found - it ain't cheap - is the DT 350 Hybrid, which is meant for ebikes and tandems. Its beefier in every way on general principles, and uses a 24T ratchet engagement mech instead of pawls. The 18T on the standard 350's is indestructible as it is. The 24T ratchets on the Hybrids are also solid. Also the steel cassette body you ordinarily have to buy separately for a plain 350 is included with the hub from the factory.

I use a 350 Hybrid (Boost size with QR endcaps swapped in makes it a 141mm) on my Envoy's wheel build. I did not realize it came in a 36H version or I would have used that along with a 36H MTX39 rim. Instead mine uses 32H. IIRC I used DT 2.34 Champ spokes with brass nipples. that combo will take anything you throw at it with a BBSHD even if you just go standard 350 (my only choice, with a steel upgrade, on my fat bikes).

But an alloy cassette body will die for sure. Here's one of mine from a different bike after 1000 miles. Its a 2wd street bike so I was going easy on it, big time. A trail bike with just an HD would be more than double this amount of wear. Left is a DT ratchet alloy. On the right is steel, before it was installed. Several hundred miles later no difference in its look.

View attachment 87176

Good luck on your project!
Wow, thanks for the info.👍

I knew this would be a problem that I would have to address. I have researched this subject somewhat awhile back but never came to a conclusion.

The XT hub I picked was cheap enough at $32 and I can use it on an acoustic bike if needed.
 

m@Robertson

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
No worries at all. Glad to help if I can. On the DIY groups you see soooo many disasters that could have been avoided by thoughtful builds, but instead the equipment gets the blame and mid drives have a rep for unreliability or shockingly fast drivetrain wear.

I literally just took this picture. This is from my 2wd Bullitt so the front motor is still giving the drivetrain an easier time than it would normally have. Its an 11spd CSMS7 cluster where I am mostly running on my smallest three cogs, the last two of which are slip-on and not a part of the bolted together remainder. This afternoon's chore was to replace the stock 18T ratchet with a 36T (I have a 24 Hybrid but I think this street bike can handle 36T, which is great for fast engagement) and to swap in the steel cassette body I was too forgetful to be bothered with when I built the bike.

After 496 total, relatively moderate street miles, you can see why I say stick to steel. And not only is this motor on easy street thanks to the helper motor up front, it also has had its settings toned down with my pedelec recipe.

There's no reason to be a'feared of mid drive wear. You just have to use your brain which I didn't, and as a designated cheerleader for right tools/right job... I totally knew better. So this puppy is going into a box and not on Ebay.

pxl_20210510_230249696-e1620688612338[1].jpg


Also the last ingredient to the mid drive drivetrain puzzle is a KMC e11 chain. Stressed for mid drives. Buy two because you have to have one as a spare in your tool bag along with chain pliers and a couple of master links. Just as important as a pump and patch kit if you have a hi-po mid kit on the bike. You want the kind with the solid side plates, not the lightened one. The price will make you queasy but this is what you pay to be one of the cool kids with an 11-speed. :D

and as a general FYI:

 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
I'm sorry for taking this topic astray, but one question. As mentioned I have a 170 drop out dimension. Are there adapters available to let me use a 140 something mm hub on this bike? If so, (how) would it/they affect the chain line? It's a 9 speed with Altus derailleur if I remember right.

Thanks guys. Been looking all over and it seems I'm getting nowhere - until I see these notes. MUCH appreciated! -Al
 

m@Robertson

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I'm sorry for taking this topic astray, but one question. As mentioned I have a 170 drop out dimension. Are there adapters available to let me use a 140 something mm hub on this bike? If so, (how) would it/they affect the chain line? It's a 9 speed with Altus derailleur if I remember right.
Not that I know of but that doesn't mean someone on AliExpress or Amazon isn't selling something. They would be something like a VERY long end cap that keeps the wheel centered, so in theory if they exist at all chainline should be unaffected. Also something to move the rotor outwards. A Wolf Tooth Boostinator kit on steroids.
 

linklemming

Well-Known Member
m@Robertson

Once again, thanks for chiming in on your experience with high power mid-drives, especially the DT350 Hybrid recommendation. I did find a 36h after a few hours search and it was $$$ but I would rather spend money now than money needed to get home if/when the drivetrain broke down 20 miles from home with no options like you do with a hub-drive.

Here is why the BBSHD is going on the troll:
Troll can fit a larger Chainring. I have seen BBSHD conversions which claim to need no spacers, lekkie 42t and perfect chainline
Troll frame is beefier and will likely handle the torque thru the drivetrain better without flexing.
If I decide to go ebike touring/backpacking, the troll have more mounting options,
The DT350 Hybrid Hub is 12x142mm
The Troll can handle 135mm QR, 12x142 or 12x148 TA (DT350 hybrid I bought is a 12x142 TA). Surly is cutting edge on this IMHO

Here is why the GMAC is going on the BC
The BC vertical dropouts are just easier with the GMAC motor
The BC gnot boost 138mm spacing matches the GMAC perfectly
No spacers/adapters needed. I used the 10/12 surly adapters and they worked but it was a hassle and just more to remember when fixing a flat.
Only 2mm of dish required as opposed to 5mm with the surly 10/12 adapters. I didnt account for this additional dish when ordering spokes
and some of the spokes are at the absolute limit (too long)

Im not tied to any existing parts or number of speeds, I will buy what is required or shift parts as required to make it correct. I was just happy to find a surly bike at all.

Since the BC doesnt have the same chainring clearance as the troll, I probably wont be able to use the inner chainring position of the crank spider that comes with the erider BB torque sensor on my GMAC build. Using the outer chainring will likely cause chainline issues but I can just use a wider range cassette and just not use the biggest gear.
 
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linklemming

Well-Known Member
Just a little update today.

Got the HALO rims today and must say, they are the beefiest rim I have ever owned. Heavy too at 730g vs the 550g of the Velocity Blunt 35. What is remarkable is how beefy the eyelet design is.
IMG_20210512_214141365_HDR.jpg


Took the stock BC out for a ride today and must say in the 700cx41mm at 60psi configuration(without motor), its a lovely bike to ride. I wouldnt mind just leaving it as is and converting another bike like a Surly ECR or Ogre if I could find one in black...perhaps next bike/build. Put on some pavement oriented 2.1 tires and it would be a great city/errand bike, easily replacing my rigid 94 GT Zaskar which is way harsher.

Last time I rode a bike with tires that narrow at 60psi was my Juiced CCX and I wasnt a fan (I changed over to 2.3f/2.1rear at 30/35psi and liked it alot more).

Even the troll with 26x2.4 tires at 30psi seemed harsher but thats an insanely stiff bikepacking frame meant to carry a huge load. With 27.5x2.6 tires at 25psi its comfortable.

So the BC was compliant yet fast rolling with the 700c and never felt flexy, I even tried some out of the saddle sprints and couldnt detect any chainstay flex. Im guessing the BC will be a very comfy bike with the planned 27.5x2.6 Johnny Watt Tires.
 
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linklemming

Well-Known Member
Still waiting on BBSHD build parts from Luna(took them 4 days to process order) so no updates on that build.

Took the Troll/GMAC build out for a ride on friday and there was a chance of rain.

I mentioned awhile back that sometimes when riding thru even small water puddles my torque sensing would cut out and I would have to use throttle to get home.

I thought I had fixed that by encapsulating the torque sensor waterproof connector(on the underside of downtube) in some heatshrink that has adhesive on the inside. I also applied RTV
sealant all around the hole in the BB.

That was about a month ago and no issues since despite running thru many puddles probably around 5 inches deep and at speed.

The rain caught up with me on todays ride(I got soaked) and eventually the torque sensor stopped working (it always happens at the furthest distance from home). Since I have a PAS/no
torque sensor preset I decided to try that and it worked.

So I had 18 miles to contempate my PAS/no torque sensor setup. I have it setup with my hub motor to increase power over 50rpm cadence and I have 9 PAS levels going from 1000-1000watts. My takeaway is its very doable compared to a torque sensor at higher speeds (20mph+). At 25mph+. I dont think there is any significant value to a torque sensor especially with the lower power euro-based ebikes(bafang ultra might be different). That being said, I dont seem to get the same exercise with non torque based PAS as I averaged only 112watthours vs my usual of 150-200.

Came home and started transitioning all the GMAC build parts to the BC. One thing to note is that the erider torque sensing BB bearing on the drive side is complete toast after 1400miles. My guess they dont use very good seals on the drive side. Luckily I have a spare BB.

I will provide more details on the Erider BB bearing issue at a a later date (they should be repleacable with a press)
 

linklemming

Well-Known Member
Troll BBSHD Build Status:

All the GMAC parts are off the troll and on the BC so it was time to start test fitting the BBSHD.

All research I have found states that the Surly Troll and Ogre dont require any drive side spacers for motor clearance and thats true just barely
BBSHD_motorclearance.jpg


I have never liked the way bafang want to keep the motor from rotating with the mount that has indents that are supposed to 'dig in' to the bottom bracket so I bought the california ebike BBSHD stabilizer bar.
cali-ebike-bracket.png


Took a few mods to get it to work
bracket_top.jpg

bracket_side.jpg


Here are some pics with the BBSHD mounted on the bike with/without the bracket, the bracket does lower the BBSHD a tad.

Without Bracket
BBSHD_nobracket.jpg


And with the bracket
BBSHD_bracket.jpg


And finally here is chainring clearance with a 42t lekkie bling ring
BBSHD_chainringclearance.jpg
 
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linklemming

Well-Known Member
BC GMAC Build Updates:

Got all the parts to get the GMAC BC running again.

As expected, the surly 42t chainring I was using on the inside position of the erider double chainring spider would contact the chainstay so I had to use the outside position. As such the chainline isnt perfect now. The chainline on the troll used to lineup right in the middle of the 9speed cassette. With the 11 speed cassette, it lines up 1 cog towards the outside. No problem as the huge 51t cog, will never be used anyway so I just limited the derailler end stop to never go to the largest cog.

The original surly 42t stainless steel chainring had to go as its not really made for an 11 speed setup, so I bought a wolftooth 42t narrow wide chainring which will be used in conjuntion with a chain retention device which I used on the troll.

Here are some pics showing the Chainring and Chainring Clearance
Chainring.jpg

ChainringClearance.jpg


Mounting the torque arm for the GMAC wasnt as easy as it was on the troll due to rear brake line ziptie mounts on the frame. I had to trim off the end of the torquearm with a dremel as can be seen in the picture. Also had to use some narrower hose clamps. These are actually much nicer/smoother hoseclamps from a miata turbo kit bought 15 years ago. They were only a few mm narrower but thats was all that was needed,
torquemount.jpg

Here is a completed pic of the bike (I need to cleanup all the wiring)
CompleteBikeWiremess.jpg
 
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m@Robertson

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
All research I have found states that the Surly Troll and Ogre dont require any drive side spacers for motor clearance and thats true just barely


I have never liked the way bafang want to keep the motor from rotating with the mount that has indents that are supposed to 'dig in' to the bottom bracket so I bought the california ebike BBSHD stabilizer bar.
What you are showing is effectively perfect fitment of the motor to the frame, with respect to the secondary housing's distance from the chainstay root. You could even go closer. Rule of thumb is that minimum is a business card's thickness but a little more certainly won't hurt.

I have both the Cali Ebike BBSHD brace and the Luna clone. One is a hair wider than the other but still, I have never been able to find a project that wanted to let me use them. Just luck of the draw with respect to my frames. I have always done the two-inner-nuts stack, torqued to 100 ft lbs each.

If you want more offset than the 42T Lekkie gives you, the 42T Luna Eclipse looks like it will work. But count the millimeters you have available. The Luna gives you an additional 8.5mm inboard and the teeth are longer. I have only a couple bikes the Eclipse will fit on - right now its on my Surly BFD and the offset is so extreme it limits ideal chain line to the upper range of my 11s cluster - which is the way I want it (I can still use the higher gears thanks to the extreme chainstay length). My former chainring was a 130 BCD Wolf Tooth with very little offset. The Eclipse helped re-gear it from a street cargo bike to one better suited to bikepacking and trails.

Dunno if you have seen this but more than you ever wanted to know about the HD and chainring choices:

 
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