Need advice. Bike for getting to work. Rust proof?

Chantelle1987

New Member
Region
Europe
Saw a free YouTube videos that said delfast was huge best bike..
50mph 200 miles to a charge. Carbon fibre rust proof..
But 6500 euro !!!

There are several sections this should go in.
Because I also don't know regional laws!
I'm British living in Germany.

Rust proof would be good.. Maybe aluminum.
Speed isn't too important as long as it can handle hills.
Battery capacity and removable battery are essential as I use for work.

I'm a 5'5 woman..
I'm in Germany. Are there any rules regarding speed or maybe no off-road bikes on road idk?

I was hoping for quality at 2000 or less

Thanks
 

Marci jo

Well-Known Member
This machine is really not a bicycle, more like a motorcycle.
I googled an image and it is quite the beast. Can't speak for laws in Germany but here in the U.S. it would not be allowed on any of the bike trails. If used on the street, it would be considered a motorcycle and thus would need to follow all appropriate state motor vehicle laws.
You are wise to keep asking questions and research before you buy.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
@Chantelle1987: Delfast is totally illegal in the European Union. It is going beyond the S-Pedelec (a moped) and could even not be registered as a motorcycle because of the lack of EU Certificate of Conformity.

You cannot ride it anywhere in Germany except of a private land. Do you own a private land as big you could ride a Delfast there? I doubt.

Germany laws:
  • An e-bike is just a bike if it is limited to 25 km/h (15.5 mph), and to 250 W nominal motor power.
  • An e-bike with the speed limited to 45 km/h (28 mph), and with motor not exceeding 4 kW is a moped. A moped needs to come with the EU Certificate of Conformity. The moped has to be registered, insured, undergo technical inspection (TÜV), be ridden solely with traffic, and the rider has to carry a light motorcycle driving license (AM class) and wear a helmet.
Anything above is a motorcycle, and motorcycle laws are applicable. Delfast doesn't qualify (is not type approved) as a motorcycle.

Anything unclear?

I was hoping for quality at 2000 or less
And some people still are hoping for free lunches. A premium Euro e-bike can cost well above 6500 Euros.
 
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indianajo

Well-Known Member
If you want a real electric bicycle, that is allowed on streets in the E.U. without license plate, operator's license, insurance, motorcycle helmet: Look at gazelle. https://electricbikereview.com/gazelle/arroyo-c8-hmb-elite/ Made in Netherlands, a very wet country. Europe except Switzerland has a 350 watt limit. I believe Giant operates in Europe also, and sells some shimano mid drive bikes that can be pedaled without power without your feet dragging the motor along the way lower level Bosch drives do. Kona ecoco www.electricbikereview.com/kona/ecoco/ also has shimano steps mid-drive and a short list of known problems.
Be sure to buy a bike in a small frame suitable for your legs. Don't let a salesman bull you into buying too big a frame because he has that size in stock. In US they call them 16" and 17" frames. I'm short & I prefer 26" wheels because they smooth out the bumps & potholes.
Many e-bikes have an aluminum frame, but living in an area that it rains 220 days a year, there are many steel parts. You have to keep them lubricated. I lubricate my chain, cable entrances & exits, derailleur pivots, sprockets, takeup, headstock clamps, seat clamps & stem, every 2 weeks. I use non-detergent SUS 32 oil in a pump applicator. You can buy such oil as type F or A ATF in quarts, (perhaps, maybe not in europe) or in gallons as generic hydraulic fluid for farm tractors in gallons. Not the kind of ATF that meets dexron/mercon specs, and not the type of tractor fluid that meets Ford/New Holland/John Deere etc specifications. Both those fluids contain detergent which sucks water out of the air. From industrial supplies you can buy SUS32 spindle oil or turbine oil, which is non-detergent. My bike is 3 3/4 years old, is parked outside and ridden in rain a lot, and is not rusty. Protect your throttle if any & display from rain with plastic bags held on with kale ties. When the USAR sent me to W Germany, the country briefing said it rained nearly 3/4 of the days there.
 
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Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
Joe: Europe offers hundreds of legal e-bike makes. Why do you mention just Gazelle? Because you heard about it? No mention of German leaders such as Haibike, Riese & Muller, Canyon, Cube, Bulls, etc? No mention on world companies that focus on Europe such as Specialized, Trek, Giant, Cannondale (just to name the four largest)?
 

ian fisher

New Member
have you tried looking at the used ebike market? My best advice is to test ride as many demonstrator bikes as possible and at least find a bike that is the right fit for you, one that is also capable of what you want in range and performance. Narrow down your choices to a few models that suit your requirements, whether you decide to buy brand new or used doesn't really matter but once you know what you are looking for it will easier to make a purchase...then enjoy!
 

rich c

Well-Known Member
Delfast may be able to do 50mph, and it may be able to do 200 miles if you shut off the motor occasionally or ride at 5mph with a wind at your back. But it won't do both like they seem to state in one sentence. Frame rusting is hardly ever an issue. It's the chain, cassette. cables, fasteners, and any chrome parts. I assume you denomination of currency is Euros? You should be able to test ride a ton of eBikes living in Germany. I'm a huge Haibike fan with Bosch power.
 

Chantelle1987

New Member
Region
Europe
A lot of this is over my head .. But I am coming to look into the brand's mentioned.

Btw does haibike "unlock" for faster speeds /more power?

I have a problem with rusting on my chain and chrome parts Aswell as nuts/bolts.
I bought this spray on Amazon which goes over the top of your fresh paint which has been cleaned with a degreaser. Also you spray it on steel bolts/chrome.

Seems to have done the job. Rust isn't reappearing after I used miscellaneous tools to scour off existing rust/ re spray then spray the protective spray on top.

Where would I get this oil mentioned above? It needs reapplying every 2 weeks?
Because I definitely need to look after it. I'm a part time working mother and need the bike to last .
Can I not get something good for 2 k.? I really can't pay 6.5k

Thanks
 

Dewey

Well-Known Member
have you tried looking at the used ebike market?
This is good advice, if you live near the Netherlands this Dutch company https://www.tweedehandsfietsen.nl/tweedehands-elektrische-fiets will deliver a used ebike to any bike shop in the Netherlands, have it delivered to one in Arnhem and take a trip over the Rhine and pick up an ebike bargain. There are so many you can choose a frame size that fits you.

They list some quality bikes for around €2,000, for example this Riese and Muller Nevo step-through https://www.tweedehandsfietsen.nl/tweedehands-elektrische-fiets/riese-muller-nevo-94272.html or either of these with belt drive https://www.tweedehandsfietsen.nl/tweedehands-elektrische-fiets/qwic-premium-i-mn7-belt.html or https://www.tweedehandsfietsen.nl/tweedehands-elektrische-fiets/bulls-lacuba-evo-8-belt.html
 
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indianajo

Well-Known Member
I have a problem with rusting on my chain and chrome parts Aswell as nuts/bolts.
I bought this spray on Amazon which goes over the top of your fresh paint which has been cleaned with a degreaser. Also you spray it on steel bolts/chrome.
Seems to have done the job. Rust isn't reappearing after I used miscellaneous tools to scour off existing rust/ re spray then spray the protective spray on top.

Where would I get this oil mentioned above? It needs reapplying every 2 weeks?
Automatic Transmission fluid type A & F (non-detergent) is sold in quarts in auto supplies here. $4. German auto supplies were weird in 1982, seem to be brand specific, porche, VW, Mcd ??? Tractor/farm supplies are world wide, and the sus32 generic (non-detergent) hydraulic fluid should be available in 4 liter bottles at least and maybe smaller. Germany is a huge industrial country and machine tool supplies should be about every large city, with 4 liter bottles of spindle oil sus 32 or turbine oil, maybe more expensive than generic hydraulic fluid.
The oil is thin and gets inside the rollers of the chain and into the bearings of the headstock and down the tubes of the cables, but will evaporate in 3 months or so. Rain will wash it off, too. Penetrating oil has the same ability to get in between metals, but evaporates in days, I don't recommend it. Waxes like carnuba work on non-moving parts that you wish to keep looking good, but don't lubricate in between parts listed above. Using this lube my first chain on bike in avatar lasted 5000 mi (8000 km?), a generic KMC non-electric chain. Didn't have to replace the sprockets at the same time, no damage.
 
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Chantelle1987

New Member
Region
Europe
So I'll need a combination of wax and what you call sus 32 oil?
I hope maybe I can get it on Amazon.de.
I don't live in a city. It's very rural.

In reference to an above poster who mentioned gong to arnheim.
I'm not sure about my ability as a British person to leave Germany (post brexit) with recognized rights to remain because I came here pre brexit.
Also how would I get the bike back home.
I think you *might* need folding bikes for trains. Really not sure. But I'll have to work out the logistics of it, because now the battery on my old bike is so bad, it can't get me all the way to and from work without dying.

CHEAP CHINESE BATTERY

I'm going to look at that website though. If it's worth it I'll definitely work something out 😀
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
Btw does haibike "unlock" for faster speeds /more power?
Haibike e-bikes come with different motors depending on the model and model year.

This website (in Germany) is very well known for derestrictors for different e-bike motors:

If you set your sights on a specific e-bike, you can write an e-mail to the service and they will tell you what device would be applicable.

It is important to mention, no derestrictor device will add more power to the e-bike. Derestrictors just lift the speed restriction. Mid-drive motors in Euro e-bikes have pretty high "max peak power" making them able to achieve speeds higher than 25 km/h. Due to strong air drag at high speed, don't expect miracles. 40 km/h (25 mph) is what you could expect at the cost of high battery consumption. And I wouldn't recommend turning the derestrictor on while on a German bike path. (German police is meant to be serious, and German cyclists would readily report on you if you were riding excessively fast on a bike path).
 
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ian fisher

New Member
A lot of this is over my head .. But I am coming to look into the brand's mentioned.

Btw does haibike "unlock" for faster speeds /more power?

I have a problem with rusting on my chain and chrome parts Aswell as nuts/bolts.
I bought this spray on Amazon which goes over the top of your fresh paint which has been cleaned with a degreaser. Also you spray it on steel bolts/chrome.

Seems to have done the job. Rust isn't reappearing after I used miscellaneous tools to scour off existing rust/ re spray then spray the protective spray on top.

Where would I get this oil mentioned above? It needs reapplying every 2 weeks?
Because I definitely need to look after it. I'm a part time working mother and need the bike to last .
Can I not get something good for 2 k.? I really can't pay 6.5k

Thanks
the only chain oil iv'e ever used on all of my bikes is a firearm oil, Hoppes No9.
 

Chantelle1987

New Member
Region
Europe
My money is on another hit and run post. Stay tuned. CN

Haibike e-bikes come with different motors depending on the model and model year.

This website (in Germany) is very well known for derestrictors for different e-bike motors:

If you set your sights on a specific e-bike, you can write an e-mail to the service and they will tell you what device would be applicable.

It is important to mention, no derestrictor device will add more power to the e-bike. Derestrictors just lift the speed restriction. Mid-drive motors in Euro e-bikes have pretty high "max peak power" making them able to achieve speeds higher than 25 km/h. Due to strong air drag at high speed, don't expect miracles. 40 km/h (25 mph) is what you could expect at the cost of high battery consumption. And I wouldn't recommend turning the derestrictor on while on a German bike path. (German police is meant to be serious, and German cyclists would readily report on you if you were riding excessively fast on a bike path).
Oh. I wouldn't.
I've never come off my bike or hit anyone. I'm very safe. But sometimes the extra speed is useful on a road. At least to go the residential speed limit of 30 mph.

I thought voltage or power could also be increased? That would be very useful in steep areas where I live. But just adding 5mph would mean getting home a lot faster.

I'm really liking the bike I looked at above but don't fancy going to arnheim. Even though I'm in Stuttgart so maybe not excessively far away
 

Dewey

Well-Known Member
I think you *might* need folding bikes for trains. Really not sure. But I'll have to work out the logistics of it
What a nuisance, this site suggests full size bicycles can't be taken on DB Inter City Express trains. You could take a regular Inter City train from Stuttgart to Cologne, and a connecting train to Aachen, then an electric bikeshare bike or a bus for the 6km journey to Vaals, Netherlands, and ride back to Aachen. Would be a long day so you might want to stop overnight in Aachen. According to this you need a negative PCR test up to 3 days before the date of travel, register your travel online, and book a bicycle ticket for each Inter City train leg of the journey.
 
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Chantelle1987

New Member
Region
Europe
At the cost including staying overnight maybe. A van driver could simply pick this up and bring here.
When I moved from Britain to Germany I paid under a thousand to move my whole belongings in a very large vehicle.
I think one bike going a couple hundred less miles should he massively cheaper.
I'll look into this thanks
 

indianajo

Well-Known Member
So I'll need a combination of wax and what you call sus 32 oil?
You'd use automotive wax on steel surfaces like the handlebar, the steering stem, the seatpost, to prevent rust. Makes the painted aluminum surfaces stay shiny longer, too.
The thin non-detergent oil is for moving parts. I started with 3-in-one oil which is very expensive, now about $3 for 100 ml. Another way to buy non-detergent sus32 oil maybe in liter packages is air tool oil from the home store. A place that sells air compressors and air tools like impact guns nailers & staplers. Air compressor oil in the same department is non-detergent, but is too thick for lubricating chains. SUS 68 or higher. Whatever oil you use, test for detergent by mixing a little water in 50 ml. If water sinks to the bottom instead of mixing in, that is okay.
As far as high performance bikes, EU regulations are pretty strict. Even here in the US bikes are limited to 750 W for road use. However you can buy power wheels of 1000 or 1300 W, and convert an ordinary pedal bike. That is what I did, as I cross a lot of hills here. I also carry up to 80 lb groceries or tractor supplies. The Mac10t hubmotor would be ideal for what you are trying to do, if you can get one. If the throttle gets rained out (happens here) you can pedal it home without drag and give it the hair dryer treatment. You can also buy 21 AH or 25 AH batteries for long range at higher speeds, without paying the enormous charges of premium range built bikes like Reiss & Mueller.
 
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Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
Oh. I wouldn't.
I've never come off my bike or hit anyone. I'm very safe. But sometimes the extra speed is useful on a road. At least to go the residential speed limit of 30 mph.
The reason I’m writing about this is that over the past months we’ve had a number of cases in Germany of our riders being stopped by police for simply having the ability to exceed the 25km/h limit EU default setting by switching to the US country setting in our app (the USA allows assisted support up to 32km/h for all Class 1 e-bikes). We are making a change on November 17 to avoid any discussion on adherence to these laws.
The above quote is from an article of a co-founder of the VanMoof Dutch e-bike brand notorious of making illegal e-bikes. "Our riders being stopped by the police..." Chantelle: you live in Germany. Behave.
I thought voltage or power could also be increased? That would be very useful in steep areas where I live. But just adding 5mph would mean getting home a lot faster.
You can neither increase voltage nor power on a manufactured Euro e-bike. Yet, the max power of most of mid-drive motor Euro e-bikes greatly exceeds 250 W. For example, the most premium Specialized motors get to 520 W in peak. Combined with drive-train, you'll find no hill you couldn't climb, like the one I climbed on my Vado 5.0:

1634133058638.png

Specialized has released now Turbo Tero, a "mountainized" e-bike capable of riding both in urban and off-road terrain, equipped with the same motor as Vado 5.0.

You seem not to be aware how people in Germany think and behave Chantelle. You options are:
  • Accepting the reality of life and do what millions of your German neighbours do: ride a 25 km/h e-bike, or
  • Buy yourself a S-Pedelec (for instance Specialized Vado 6.0, Trek Allant+ 8S, etc), register it, get a number plate, insure the e-bike, ride with traffic, wear the helmet and carry a driving license as I do with my main e-bike, or
  • Go illegal and bear consequences: It is easier to be fined or put in the front of the court in Germany than anywhere else.

1634133532002.png

My answer to the speed restriction: A Specialized S-Pedelec, a 45 km/h e-bike. Yes, it carries a number plate. It is liability insured and all.