new turbo creo comp carbon rider, a few questions!

mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
hi all! first post, first year riding bikes.

my situation is a little unusual, i've always been fairly athletic (swam/water polo competitively, later distance running) but due to a heart rhythm condition and many subsequent catastrophes, i'm very limited in the intensity of my cardio. HR needs to stay well below 130, and well below the point where it would be difficult to have a conversation. i live in san francisco, in pacific heights, surrounded by big hills.

right after christmas, i got a vanmoof S3. brilliant city transport, powerful (69nm, 500w peak), and as much as i loved cruising from playground with my kids (one with me, one on her own bike!) i really really loved riding it fast. put 1,000 miles on it in 2-3 months. this led me to think i should get a bike designed for... going fast. on paper the turbo creo seemed to fit the bill, much lighter, higher max boost (class 3 / 28mph), more gears. i test rode an L of the EVO version (i'm 6'2, 195), and it felt very cramped, very unstable, like i was going to tip forward and off.

tried an XL of the comp carbon, still didn't love it and didn't feel comfortable getting out of the saddle. shop suggested flipping the stem, going a little shorter and a higher angle, and heavier, more puncture resistant tires since i ride everywhere from my door, meaning through the city. after all that, it was starting to feel really good. i went with the black version, and other than the tires, hybrid pedals, removing some fiddly bits, and adding a quad lock out front (flipped around) it's stock. i didn't really understand the benefits of the various trim levels, but as a new rider, the cheapest one with the carbon frame was probably the right decision. and, to be honest... it had to be black, preferably matte black.

10 days later, i freaking love it! i've ridden it almost every day, rides ranging from 15 to 40 miles, vertical from 750 to 2,500 feet. my goal is to use the battery as little as possible, and on my last ride mission control tells me that i did 36 miles, used 120 watt hours, with an average speed of 14.78mph and 1,709 feet of elevation. i try and avoid level 3, i turned level one down 5%, and turn the motor fully off on the flats unless there's a wicked tailwind.

i'm now wondering if - given my primary interest in going fast and using the least power - upgrading to a carbon wheelset would be worth it. it seems like custom is the way to go given the odd dimensions, maybe with a 700x38 tubeless setup to allow a little more cushion and some gravel capability? i was originally happy to have some rotating weight for stability, but now i feel very comfortable on the bike. would an amateur rider like myself notice the difference in a lighter carbon+tubeless setup, to the point that it would be worth $1k or so?

my only annoyance at the moment is the cycling app ecosystem... none of them do all the things i want. mission control shows power, precise battery usage, speed from the bike directly, and gives you a map, but won't read HR from my apple watch, and you can't plan a route with navigation and elevation profiles. ridewithGPS has amazing route planning, sometimes (not usually) reads the heart rate, and shows elevation profiles in advance but can't (at least i can't figure it) connect to the bike's power meter. cyclemeter pro has the BEST HR display, including a real time graph for the ride, shows elevation profiles after the fact (but not in advance), can't connect to the power meter, and doesn't have route planning. at the moment i'm using mission control and ridewithGPS together and just looking directly at my watch for the HR. any suggestions on that front?

0018-creoCompCarbon.jpg


0017-creoCompCarbon.jpg


0016-creoCompCarbon.jpg


iphone 12 pro max on quadlock out front:
0020-creoPhone.jpg


and, the city bike, which i still love and use every day for errands. the anti-theft features are brilliant and twice the torque as the creo is just the ticket for trips to the grocery store up a 20% grade!
0019-vanMoof.jpg
 

Nxkharra

Well-Known Member
hi all! first post, first year riding bikes.

my situation is a little unusual, i've always been fairly athletic (swam/water polo competitively, later distance running) but due to a heart rhythm condition and many subsequent catastrophes, i'm very limited in the intensity of my cardio. HR needs to stay well below 130, and well below the point where it would be difficult to have a conversation. i live in san francisco, in pacific heights, surrounded by big hills.

right after christmas, i got a vanmoof S3. brilliant city transport, powerful (69nm, 500w peak), and as much as i loved cruising from playground with my kids (one with me, one on her own bike!) i really really loved riding it fast. put 1,000 miles on it in 2-3 months. this led me to think i should get a bike designed for... going fast. on paper the turbo creo seemed to fit the bill, much lighter, higher max boost (class 3 / 28mph), more gears. i test rode an L of the EVO version (i'm 6'2, 195), and it felt very cramped, very unstable, like i was going to tip forward and off.

tried an XL of the comp carbon, still didn't love it and didn't feel comfortable getting out of the saddle. shop suggested flipping the stem, going a little shorter and a higher angle, and heavier, more puncture resistant tires since i ride everywhere from my door, meaning through the city. after all that, it was starting to feel really good. i went with the black version, and other than the tires, hybrid pedals, removing some fiddly bits, and adding a quad lock out front (flipped around) it's stock. i didn't really understand the benefits of the various trim levels, but as a new rider, the cheapest one with the carbon frame was probably the right decision. and, to be honest... it had to be black, preferably matte black.

10 days later, i freaking love it! i've ridden it almost every day, rides ranging from 15 to 40 miles, vertical from 750 to 2,500 feet. my goal is to use the battery as little as possible, and on my last ride mission control tells me that i did 36 miles, used 120 watt hours, with an average speed of 14.78mph and 1,709 feet of elevation. i try and avoid level 3, i turned level one down 5%, and turn the motor fully off on the flats unless there's a wicked tailwind.

i'm now wondering if - given my primary interest in going fast and using the least power - upgrading to a carbon wheelset would be worth it. it seems like custom is the way to go given the odd dimensions, maybe with a 700x38 tubeless setup to allow a little more cushion and some gravel capability? i was originally happy to have some rotating weight for stability, but now i feel very comfortable on the bike. would an amateur rider like myself notice the difference in a lighter carbon+tubeless setup, to the point that it would be worth $1k or so?

my only annoyance at the moment is the cycling app ecosystem... none of them do all the things i want. mission control shows power, precise battery usage, speed from the bike directly, and gives you a map, but won't read HR from my apple watch, and you can't plan a route with navigation and elevation profiles. ridewithGPS has amazing route planning, sometimes (not usually) reads the heart rate, and shows elevation profiles in advance but can't (at least i can't figure it) connect to the bike's power meter. cyclemeter pro has the BEST HR display, including a real time graph for the ride, shows elevation profiles after the fact (but not in advance), can't connect to the power meter, and doesn't have route planning. at the moment i'm using mission control and ridewithGPS together and just looking directly at my watch for the HR. any suggestions on that front?

View attachment 83706

View attachment 83707

View attachment 83708

iphone 12 pro max on quadlock out front:
View attachment 83709

and, the city bike, which i still love and use every day for errands. the anti-theft features are brilliant and twice the torque as the creo is just the ticket for trips to the grocery store up a 20% grade!
View attachment 83710
Beauty. Enjoy.
 

enzeder

New Member
I have WAHOO Element ROAM - route planning, heart rate etc - then it downloads to Strava, RideWithGPs and MapMyRide etc and also does live tracking so your better half knows where you are.

If you are keen on lots of stats have a look at the BLEVO app (android) - designed for LEVO but works for CREOs - just change the tyre to 2200. It can also change the power assist to target a rate, closer you get to your target heart rate the more power it provides and vice versa.

Also Mission Control can show your heart rate. It's not obvious, I stumbled across it by accident, but if you are on the stats page you can change a particular stat by holding down the button and this will bring up a bunch of stats that you can then pick - heart rate is one of them - along with others such as cadence, motor power, rider power etc

I don't use MC much anymore as between the ROAM and BLEVO all my requirements are met. MY only wish is that the ROAM would bring in e-bike segments but it doesn't do that yet.

*** edit ***

Just read it again and see you have an apple watch for heart rate, I have a Wahoo tickr so my thoughts might not be much use.
 
Last edited:

mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I have WAHOO Element ROAM - route planning, heart rate etc - then it downloads to Strava, RideWithGPs and MapMyRide etc and also does live tracking so your better half knows where you are.

If you are keen on lots of stats have a look at the BLEVO app (android) - designed for LEVO but works for CREOs - just change the tyre to 2200. It can also change the power assist to target a rate, closer you get to your target heart rate the more power it provides and vice versa.

Also Mission Control can show your heart rate. It's not obvious, I stumbled across it by accident, but if you are on the stats page you can change a particular stat by holding down the button and this will bring up a bunch of stats that you can then pick - heart rate is one of them - along with others such as cadence, motor power, rider power etc

I don't use MC much anymore as between the ROAM and BLEVO all my requirements are met. MY only wish is that the ROAM would bring in e-bike segments but it doesnt do that yet.
thanks! i was looking at BLEVO on iphone, but the interface looks so ugly heh. worth a try for sure.

re: MC and heart rate, i did see the option, and i like the customizable dashboard stats, but it doesn't seem to read anything. any special trick you used to make it work?
 

enzeder

New Member
I had seen the heart rate option and never used it as I use the ROAM.

Having said that I just tried MC and successfully connected it to the TICKR, but it wouldn't show a heart rate and also seems to disconnect of its own accord.

Haven't had that problem on any of the WAHOO apps or BLEVO so weird
 

e-levity

Active Member
Good to hear that you're feeling the stoke, @mschwett! Hope you keep it going!

Re wheels and tires: The R470s are already a pretty light wheelset, ~1650g. I'm not sure you'd notice much difference going to a slightly lighter carbon set especially since the Creo is itself heavy and it has a motor. You will notice a significant difference with larger tires. My EVO came stock with 38mm Pathfinder Pros and I switched to 42mm PPs and now 47mm Tracer Pros. Each increase in size increased stability, cushion, and traction at the expense of some handling quickness. I love the Tracers because I spend a fair amount of time off-pavement, but even on the street they're my favs.
 

mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Good to hear that you're feeling the stoke, @mschwett! Hope you keep it going!

Re wheels and tires: The R470s are already a pretty light wheelset, ~1650g. I'm not sure you'd notice much difference going to a slightly lighter carbon set especially since the Creo is itself heavy and it has a motor. You will notice a significant difference with larger tires. My EVO came stock with 38mm Pathfinder Pros and I switched to 42mm PPs and now 47mm Tracer Pros. Each increase in size increased stability, cushion, and traction at the expense of some handling quickness. I love the Tracers because I spend a fair amount of time off-pavement, but even on the street they're my favs.
thanks! that's useful. i'm on continental gator hardshell 32s at the moment.

the rolling resistance is super high for a road tire for these, is that sort of thing noticeable to a non-competitive rider?
 

jodi2

Active Member
Sounds like you only had to get used to racing handle bars, what can take a while. Even more if you did not cycle before and then with the upright bar of a van Moof. XL is fine for you, also saddle post and stem like fine/normal!

About the wheel set, I personally don't like the R470 wheels. They are far from light and not very strong/quite sluggish. But this will only have an effect if you go really hard/far/hilly/fast, for example in a race. On normal tours with 15mph I doubt that you (or I) will notice the difference in speed or agility to a $1500 carbon wheel set. An that the R470 aren't that strong comes out with heavy (fat...) riders like me and if you go offroad/graveling, not on the road.
The gator hardshell tires are very heavy for a 32mm racing tire. You can save up to 200g per wheel and even in the rim, where it has more effect than in the hub. That's more tnan you would achieve with the most expensive carbon wheel set just wit a few bugs for new tires, so first try this.
You will loose a little bit of puncture resistance and durability and grip on rough roads/offroad, but a Continental GP5000 is still quite durable and versile. A compromise between GP5000 and gator hardshell would be for example the GP 4-Season.
If you go the other way/paths, more offroad with wider tires of 37-42mm, then tubeless is the way to go. Saves some grams, a little bit less rolling resistance&more grip at lower pressures and less punctures offroad for example from thorns (not less punctures in the city!).
 

Vamos

New Member
Region
USA
I am frustrated with having to turn the motor off to ride without power. When I turn the bike off I loose the connection to MC and my Wahoo. Ebikemotion system has a zero power level and allows you to stay connected when riding without power. Is there something that I am missing?
 

e-levity

Active Member
^^ @Vamos - To access zero power assist:
Hold the upper TCU button in for ~2 sec to turn off assist. Power remains on.
Press button again briefly and power will return in Eco mode and normal operation.
 

jodi2

Active Member
Or as phone joker for the million dollar question...

when I tried the Creo the first times I was also surprised that there seemed to be no zero level... ;-)
 

mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Or as phone joker for the million dollar question...

when I tried the Creo the first times I was also surprised that there seemed to be no zero level... ;-)
took me a while to find “zero” also lol. not sure why a single press doesn’t just cycle through it.

today’s ride! ran out of steam at the end and had to dip into turbo :eek: used 141Wh

850F7797-EFE9-4A5F-9BEB-B9FEA2755CE6.jpeg
 

jodi2

Active Member
For me it's the opposite, I prefer the clean look of the Creo without extra buttons/extra display like other normal e-bikes. And I don't need to change the levels very often, I use level one all the time, just switching rarely in hard uphills to level two and almost never or maybe once in a tour level three.
But I guess this is also due to our 25km/h limit here for the Creo. If it's flat, you ride with a Creo almost/mostly without support (apart from the start/accelerating up to 25km/h), no matter in which level you are. And if you fall back below 25km/h it's normally uphill or very strong head winds, where you want support. So almost no need for level zero and - my personal liking - also no level three, so many changes less needed.
 

mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
For me it's the opposite, I prefer the clean look of the Creo without extra buttons/extra display like other normal e-bikes. And I don't need to change the levels very often, I use level one all the time, just switching rarely in hard uphills to level two and almost never or maybe once in a tour level three.
But I guess this is also due to our 25km/h limit here for the Creo. If it's flat, you ride with a Creo almost/mostly without support (apart from the start/accelerating up to 25km/h), no matter in which level you are. And if you fall back below 25km/h it's normally uphill or very strong head winds, where you want support. So almost no need for level zero and - my personal liking - also no level three, so many changes less needed.

i like the clean look too; i tend to try and centralize as much in the phone as possible. that said, i’d definitely prefer the new TCU from the levo, speed on the top tube would have me leaving the phone behind sometimes, and nice to see the real-time accurate speed at a glance, not a GPS derived speed.

interesting point about the 25 limit. i definitely use “zero” a lot because it’s clear the bike contributes a surprising amount in the default eco mode even during fairly low intensity riding here, with our 45 kph limit. i didn’t realize how much it was or wasn’t doing until looking at mission control.
 

jodi2

Active Member
Hmm, you're right, this is really almost unvisible. Gimme a 45km/h Creo and I would take a Road Remote like this! ;-)
 

Firnatine

Member
Region
USA
took me a while to find “zero” also lol. not sure why a single press doesn’t just cycle through it.

today’s ride! ran out of steam at the end and had to dip into turbo :eek: used 141Wh

View attachment 83755
Nice ride...I grew up in San Francisco and know the City very well. There are many epic hills to climb. I live in the south bay and will be test riding a Evo tomorrow and will buy if all goes well. Like you I'm a rookie when it comes to cycling having only started riding a year ago. I currently ride a Santa Cruz Stigmata gravel bike and really enjoy riding it but at my age I could use a little assist especially when riding across the USA this August. https://bay2brooklyn2021.com Thats why I'm going to be buying an ebike and the Evo is the top of the list. I'm just hoping it will have the range and the power to help me get over a few hills.

Like you, knowing my HR is of utmost importance. I've used my Apple Watch to check my HR but it was a pain in the ass while riding. I ended up getting a Wahoo Tickr along with the Wahoo Element Bolt. It does everything I want, is easy to read and links to Strava flawlessly.
 

mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Nice ride...I grew up in San Francisco and know the City very well. There are many epic hills to climb. I live in the south bay and will be test riding a Evo tomorrow and will buy if all goes well. Like you I'm a rookie when it comes to cycling having only started riding a year ago. I currently ride a Santa Cruz Stigmata gravel bike and really enjoy riding it but at my age I could use a little assist especially when riding across the USA this August. https://bay2brooklyn2021.com Thats why I'm going to be buying an ebike and the Evo is the top of the list. I'm just hoping it will have the range and the power to help me get over a few hills.

Like you, knowing my HR is of utmost importance. I've used my Apple Watch to check my HR but it was a pain in the ass while riding. I ended up getting a Wahoo Tickr along with the Wahoo Element Bolt. It does everything I want, is easy to read and links to Strava flawlessly.

I think i'm going to give up on using the watch for heart rate on rides, which is too bad. It works well with cyclemeter pro - after a short initial delay while the watch decides i'm exercising - but it does not work with rideWithGPS in navigation mode, only reports very intermittent values when not in navigation mode, and mission control can't interface with it at all. Very annoying. Ordered a chest strap, will just add another piece of kit to the ride. :|