Newbie looking for the truth

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
Is the TSDZ2 that good these days?
By some accounts yes. After riding BBS02B 750W and BBSHD 1000W, it's a rather wimpy motor. That said many of us just don't need the higher power and TSDZ2 makes us happy riders.

I kitted a KHS Smoothie with an evaluation motor TongSheng supplied. I gave the bike, motor, and EM3ev 48V battery to a fella living rough and in a boathouse on $600 a month. He's absolutely thrilled by the ride.
 

EMGX

Well-Known Member
By some accounts yes. After riding BBS02B 750W and BBSHD 1000W, it's a rather wimpy motor. That said many of us just don't need the higher power and TSDZ2 makes us happy riders.

I kitted a KHS Smoothie with an evaluation motor TongSheng supplied. I gave the bike, motor, and EM3ev 48V battery to a fella living rough and in a boathouse on $600 a month. He's absolutely thrilled by the ride.
I've been puzzled by complaints about TSDZ2 power. I have the 36v 500w version from ecocycles which they state that they program themselves differently from factory settings for more power. It seems just as powerful and refined as a Yamaha PW-SE on my BH gravel bike and there aren't a lot of complaints about Yamaha. Not a direct comparison because the bikes including tires are different on the BH vs my other bikes but still.
From reports like yours it sounds like the Bafang mid drives just take power assist (and probably power consumption and weight) to the next level which isn't what everyone needs or wants.
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
I've been puzzled by complaints about TSDZ2 power.
In retrospect, I agree. I like many customers wanted high power and performance. I rather quickly lost interest, once I understood my higher power builds were nothing short of dangerous running at 30-34MPH with rim brakes.
Another effect I noticed with BBSHD builds that cages frequently misjudged my speed and lots of left turns into my path. They see a bike, 12-15MPH max, but guess what? I'm coming at you at twice the speed. These days I ride a BBS01 36V 350W and a 1000W Front DD on my grocery hauler.
 

EMGX

Well-Known Member
In retrospect, I agree. I like many customers wanted high power and performance. I rather quickly lost interest, once I understood my higher power builds were nothing short of dangerous running at 30-34MPH with rim brakes.
Another effect I noticed with BBSHD builds that cages frequently misjudged my speed and lots of left turns into my path. They see a bike, 12-15MPH max, but guess what? I'm coming at you at twice the speed. These days I ride a BBS01 36V 350W and a 1000W Front DD on my grocery hauler.
I'd prefer to never ride faster than 20-25mph but with hills I'm regularly at 35-40+mph downhill unless I brake hard and constantly for relatively long distances like a mile or two on some routes. Often it flashes across my mind what would happen if I went down at that speed. A neighbor told me he was once nearly killed on a downhill crash.


More than one rider has lost control and been killed on this road. I've ridden it downhill a couple times on my Dahon 26" folding bike, put the bike on a backpack frame and hiked up from Wakeena falls which is near sea level up to over 4,000ft in 7ish miles to Sherrard Point (similar to hiking from the Colorado River to the south rim of the Grand Canyon) then biked down 15-20 miles of road depending on the route. Several miles of almost continuous steep downhill. It was terrifying, once I took a shortcut on gravel roads. It got so steep that even locking the brakes I was sliding down the road. I was looking for a spot to dump the bike to stop but managed to stop in a spot that leveled out some. I walked the bike the rest of the way down and even that was dicey.
 
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john peck

Well-Known Member
Let me start by saying I have never built a ebike conversion. I have the skills to do so. I have the tools and a great workstand all set up in a nice home bike shop in our basement. I am retired and have the time and I love to work on bikes. I like well integrated, well finished clean looking equipment. I also like the ride experience of a well designed and built mid drive with torque sensor. As I understand it, Bafang makes a decent mid drive conversion motor with a torque sensor as an option. I live in Bellingham Washington, a hilly town with hills to rival San Francisco or Seattle. All my buddies with hub motors regularly get stalled half way up some of them and have to walk their heavy bikes up hill the rest of the way while things cool off.

All this goes to my recommendations, if you want to build a conversion ebike, you should
  1. Make sure you have the needed tools and space to do the work
  2. Make sure you have the time to start and complete the project.
  3. Get used to watching lots of how to videos on Youtube, if you are not already.
  4. Keep asking lots of questions here of the DIY community here and elsewhere.
  5. Learn how to filter answers from people who aren't addressing your questions but rather trying to get someone else to do what they did for self validation.
  6. Based on where you live go with a mid drive motor with torque sensor.
  7. Try to mount your battery inside the frame's triangle, either on the downtube or the seat tube
  8. Keep the center of gravity low and centered between the wheels.
  9. Post a some pictures of your new pride and joy when you are done.
  10. Share with us what you learned in the process. Pay forward what you learn here by sharing lessons learned.
  11. Let us know how things are going with the new bike after a month or two of riding...is it performing as expected? Any problems, hiccups, gremlins or snafus?
  12. Make sure you are having fun in the shop and on the road.

    View attachment 80188
Jealous, your shop actually looks organized. Mine looks like someone has randomly strewn dozens of
tools every which way, no order whatever, visual search only. If you´ve ever read ´Shoe´ in the comics,
that´s what my desk looks like only worse.
 

linklemming

Well-Known Member
By some accounts yes. After riding BBS02B 750W and BBSHD 1000W, it's a rather wimpy motor. That said many of us just don't need the higher power and TSDZ2 makes us happy riders.

I kitted a KHS Smoothie with an evaluation motor TongSheng supplied. I gave the bike, motor, and EM3ev 48V battery to a fella living rough and in a boathouse on $600 a month. He's absolutely thrilled by the ride.
While it may not appear that way, I was happy with my TSDZ2 power wise(bought from ecocycles). I initially rode it at 48V and 500W (with the opensource software) until the hailong battery I got from ecocycles died after 30 cycles. I upgraded to a Luna 52V battery and upped it to 750W.

I usually kept the assist low at lower speeds due to hating the noise of the brass gear and at those speeds/conditions 500Wish was fine. Getting above 23mph or so would usually take all 750W. My comments on things like getting hot at 750W is simply to state the limits.

I was happy with the bike and was bummed when it started making clunking noises like a worn out BB. I was shocked at how bad the bearing play had become after only 1k miles and considered buying a second unit so I could always have one ready to go.

About that time, I got a killer deal on a iZIp Moda E3 (Brose Speed Pedelec) and decided to just go with that. Power wise, its basically identical to the 48V 500w TSDZ2 with similar average speeds on similar rides at similar heartrate levels. Refinement wise isnt even a comparison despite my efforts at modifying the TSDZ software myself
 
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indianajo

Well-Known Member
I was happy with the bike and was bummed when it started making clunking noises like a worn out BB. I was shocked at how bad the bearing play had become after only 1k miles and considered buying a second unit so I could always have one ready to go.

My hubmotors had standard bearings like 6001, 6003. Counterfeited of scrap metal in ***** of course. You can buy replacements of those from fafnir or BCA made of real steel from MSCdirect.com. The ones I got were from ARG. MSC also has a house line of scrap metal bearings for people that want to replace them weekly. Orielly's used to have 6001 from JAP in the air conditioner line, but their computer has erased all links to the new number.
Same bearings are used in quills of JD & Murray lawnmowers, which is heavy load 3000 rpm use. I usually got 2 years out of them mowing 24 acres of 30" johnson grass.
 

PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Is that one of your builds in the pic? Nice work ...
Art Deco, No. It is a standard issue Chrome D8-i after I removed the motor and battery because I killed the motor by running it at full power at top speeds for extended periods with a 50-T to 16-T on an eight-speed Nexus. That was a fast bike! Sheldon says 37.8Mph. I had painted the motor with silver engine paint and that was before I knew how to do extra-clean builds so you can see some ugly wires. The Public D8i chromoly frame made for a sweet ride. At one point it had WTB gravel tires and I would off road it again at full power and full speed doing climbs while clipped in. I would sip my coffee passing guys in spandex. Sometimes the same guys I just sold a commercial electric bike to for $6,400. The gold chain was to celebrate Mr. T's birthday. I learn most from my screw-ups.

Gear chart using MPH @ 90 RPM​


For 28 inch (nominal) tire with 170 mm cranks

With custom sprocket(s)

With Shimano 8-speed Nexus, Alfine Rear Hub​


0.53 (Low)0.640.750.851.01.221.421.62 (High)

1612.3
50
1615.1
50
1617.5
50
1619.9
50
1623.4
50
1628.7
50
1633.2
50
1637.8
50
 

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Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove
Art Deco, No. It is a standard issue Chrome D8-i after I removed the motor and battery because I killed the motor by running it at full power at top speeds for extended periods with a 50-T to 16-T on an eight-speed Nexus. That was a fast bike! Sheldon says 37.8Mph. I had painted the motor with silver engine paint and that was before I knew how to do extra-clean builds so you can see some ugly wires. The Public D8i chromoly frame made for a sweet ride. At one point it had WTB gravel tires and I would off road it again at full power and full speed doing climbs while clipped in. I would sip my coffee passing guys in spandex. Sometimes the same guys I just sold a commercial electric bike to for $6,400. The gold chain was to celebrate Mr. T's birthday. I learn most from my screw-ups.

Gear chart using MPH @ 90 RPM​


For 28 inch (nominal) tire with 170 mm cranks

With custom sprocket(s)


With Shimano 8-speed Nexus, Alfine Rear Hub


0.53 (Low)0.640.750.851.01.221.421.62 (High)

1612.3
50
1615.1
50
1617.5
50
1619.9
50
1623.4
50
1628.7
50
1633.2
50
1637.8
50
Pretty Classy Looking Bike. I couldn't ride it with the seat up above the bars like that, so I'd never get the speed you got, but I like it.
 

PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Pretty Classy Looking Bike. I couldn't ride it with the seat up above the bars like that, so I'd never get the speed you got, but I like it.
Thank you, It is the kind of eBike actor Will Smith would ride on Martha's Vineyard and not a Wheel Smith in the Wine Country. I found a different Public D8i on Craigslist. Note the colors on the stripes and the Alfine, not Nexus hub. I should convert another when I find one. But I will use a 42-T chainring and only lower power levels except for brief bursts.
 

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JDuck

New Member
Region
USA
Thank you. I guess I should look for at least V Brakes, and hopefully Hydraulic brakes?
Disc brakes for any ebike with speed. Hydraulic are obviously better but with what you are talking about I doubt you would notice the difference. However V brake vs disc you will notice the difference.