No power -- any ideas?

Nebster

Member
Hey all,

I'm stuck on 4th of July weekend with a Felt that won't power up. The battery has a full charge as indicated by its LEDs. It seems to be mating correctly to the socket. I don't see any corrosion or bent blades or anything. The Intuvia display has leftover power in its rechargeable battery, so it powers up okay... but it doesn't seem to "see" the motor.

Is there anything dumb or obvious I should be trying before I deal with finding a dealer and getting a warranty service done? This is a pretty new bike. I've not had issues until today; maybe 100 rides and charge cycles so far.
 

Nebster

Member
Welp, no dice. After further debugging and time on the phone with the nice folks at MaguraDirect, who provide all of the USA service for all Bosch drivetrains, it sounds like it needs to go in. They have a tool that can pull diagnostics out of the motor to help figure out what went wrong.
 

Nebster

Member
Just a follow-up on this. After diagnosis at the shop, it appears the motor is shot. They'll swap in a new motor and possibly a pack, too.
 

NoDTMF

Active Member
wow, to confirm it was a pretty much a sudden failure? Was it ever expose to water? Submerged? Be interesting if they give you any real info as to what happened to the motor.
 

Nebster

Member
wow, to confirm it was a pretty much a sudden failure? Was it ever expose to water? Submerged? Be interesting if they give you any real info as to what happened to the motor.

Yeah, just popped on the battery one day and it wouldn't go anymore.

Definitely exposed to plenty of rain over time traveling on my bike rack, but never submerged.

The tech said they basically don't let them do any teardowns or actual analysis on the internals, but rather they just treat the thing as a module and swap it. So I imagine only Bosch will ever know.
 

Ann M.

Well-Known Member
Hope the replacement parts get you up and going soon @Nebster ! Please let us know what Magura tells you about the failure; it's not common.
 

richardk

New Member
The same thing happened to me this morning with a Scott 10 e-subtourer... the battery fully loaded but the motor wont go. Last time I used the bike before this it was raining all the way home (appr 25 km). Could this be the reason for failure?? If so, I think I will have the bike returned to the dealer and money back. For commuting, which is what I bought the bike for - it definitely needs to be able to cope with rainy days too. (Total mileage of the bike to date is appr 500 km)
 

Llcjay

Member
Hub motors are pretty resilient in wet weather. I've gone thru some Hlhuge puddles, had momentary cutoff, then powered on once the motor cleared the water
 

eddie

New Member
Happened to me once on a Felt VerzaE... riding along, suddenly no power. Turned bike off, reseated the battery pack, everything good again.
 

Ann M.

Well-Known Member
Yes! I concur with @eddie, definitely try reseating the battery, everything off, then try to start. Also, after that if still no go, turn the battery off and pull the console and reseat that unit. Sometimes just a little moisture can sneak in. Doesn't damage anything but doesn't let the system communicate. If that's a constant issue, don't dump the whole bike try a clear bag over the console to block water and give the manufacturer some worthy feedback.
 

richardk

New Member
Battery and console removed and reseated but still the same issue. Ive now handed in the bike to a workshop and they are looking at it but they have no idea so far what has happened. Someone mentioned that the issue could be due to the magneto on the backwheel not properly aligned with the sensor on the frame but if that would be the problem, would the speedometer and trip etc still be working?

A bit dissapointed with this bike, I bought it for commuting to work but this is the second time it has broken down on the way to work in two weeks :-(. First time the chain broke, the reply from the dealer was more or less "s*it happens, go and buy a new chain, it cost only about 15 Euros". The bike had just passed 300 km at that time...
 

Nebster

Member
I never came back here to update after taking the bike in and going through the repair process.

Turns out the motor was /not/ the problem, it was the battery. Their diagnosis software showed "numerous faults" reported with regard to the battery.

Felt/MaguraUSA shipped a new battery, and the problem went away.

Despite numerous conversations about it, they said water/rain should not be a problem (as long as I was not submerging the whole thing in a lake, obviously).
 

TrevBone

New Member
Hello from Golden Colorado! Thanks for the above posts! I found this post while searching for a similar issue on my 2015 UrbanArrow cargo bike. I have a Bosch 400 powerpack and after 167kms ridden so far I've hit this issue. After a full battery charge, I pop the battery in and nothing happens. The LEDs on the battery just flash on and off all at the same time. On for 3 seconds, then off for 3 seconds, repeat until it just shuts off . The Intuvia computer turns on manually but the bike light won't turn on when I hit the little "light" button and I get no power assist when peddling. I called MaguraUSA as suggested above, the service tech walked me through a battery reset (pull out and hold button down for 10 seconds) to no avail. They need now for me to take it to a shop with diagnostics equipment. I'm struggling to find a shop in Colorado that has diags.

Any ideas for me? Anyone know of a shop with diags in CO? All my phone calls are fruitless
 

Nebster

Member
I live in CO but had my service done on the road in WI. My understanding, though, is that Magura USA will certify any shop on demand, if you demand it and the shop has a tech they're willing to put through the class. I get the impression that they just ship them a diagnostic harness and some software and tools and show them how to hook it together. The guy who worked on mine basically seemed just to run the diagnostics, download the data, and then call Magura for help. The must have continued the diagnosis remotely.

Have you tried Small Planet? I don't know if they're certified yet, but they're the biggest shop by far. They have a store in Denver and in Longmont.
 

TrevBone

New Member
Yes I actually did call Small Planet and planning on taking it to them up in Longmont. I called MaguraUSA back, and they gave me a list of certified shops, which was quite a few, and then we went through that list to see which ones actually made a purchase of the diagnostics dongle and/or placed service calls to Magura. So that was all of two on the Front Range, and the other was in Colo Springs. Magura said there was one in Carbondale as well (for those searching for service on the West Slope of Colorado)

Seems to be an issue for MaguraUSA that they certify the mechanics (they sit through an hour long diagnostics class) and then no one wants to spend the money on the actual diag dongle. Bosch should provide that for free or risk serviceability issues in cow towns like Golden, at least until the service situation gets mature.

Anyway, I'll post an update once I get this thing diag'd
 

TrevBone

New Member
Hello Everyone! I've got an update if you're interested. It's been a total pain and my frustration level with Bosch at this point has maxed out. So I'm throwing my line in to hopefully get some ideas from you all.
In a nutshell, because I bought the bike in Europe, MaguraUSA won't support or provide warranty assistance. Europe Bosch is mostly Active line and Bosch USA is ONLY Performance line so MaguraUSA has no experience or training on Active line hardware/software. From my understanding the firmware on the Intuvia and battery are specific code to meet the Active motor calibrations. Speaking with the bike shop in Amsterdam I bought it from they agreed to warranty the Intuvia display for me after I ship them the (possibly) defective one. As this is the easiest and cheapest thing to ship, so lets start there. So that's my next step unless someone has similar experience. If this fixes it great, the problem is I still have an unsupported bike for future nightmares.

The good folks (Ren and Rob) at Small Planet Ebikes in Longmont have worked hard on helping me troubleshoot and here's a play by play of their effort:

Troubleshooting error 0x4B0020 on Urban Arrow Family e-bike with Active Line.
Small Planet Ebikes, 724 Main street, Longmont, CO 80501

Started with removal of left side cover to re-seat all connectors. Supported frame to allow pedal and wheel rotation.

Diagnostic Software package is current @ 3.8.1.0. Software in Intuvia displays current @ 5.5.1.0.

History: Customer purchased the bike @ Juizz in Amsterdam in July 2015. Rode a few miles that day, then packed for shipment to Colorado the next day.
It worked properly for about a month then posted the error 0x4B0020 and now does not work. Intuvia display will not show current speed or range. Intuvia will display the state of charge. No motor operation at any time. We have been in contract with Magura USA as well as Juizz and Urban Arrow. So far we have not been given any direction or parts support. To validate the error, I went thru the following Troubleshooting process.

1) Connected only the Active Intuvia to the Diagnostic program. Diagnostics show Cycle Computer Connected. Had error 0x4B0020 in the service screen. Cleared the error. Verified Intuvia voltage @ 2.57v.

2) Connected only our own Performance Intuvia (from a bike in our store). Diagnostics show Cycle Computer Connected. No errors on service screen.

3) Installed Active Intuvia on bike - powered on. Rotated pedals. No MPH on display and I could not feel the motor during initial pedal rotation. I had it in Turbo mode so normally you get a brief motor op and energy display. The battery SOC was displayed properly.

4) Connected bike to Diagnostics. Started Initializing, then showed Cycle Computer Connected and for a few seconds showed Power Pack Connected. Drive Unit did not show Connected at any time during this phase. When Power Pack went to Not Connected, the Diagnostics started reinitializing again. when done, the power pack showed connected for a few seconds then went back to Not Connected. This started a cycle that did not stop. Now have error 0x4B0020 on service screen.

5) Installed Performance Intuvia on bike and powered on. Rotated pedals. No motor operation, no MPH in display. It did show Battery SOC.

6) Connected bike to diagnostics with Performance Intuvia still installed. Went thru initializing, then started repeating the same symptom as step 4. However, no error codes.

7) Reinstalled Active Intuvia and Performance Power Pack. Now get a momentary motor op when starting to pedal. Also saw momentary energy display. MPH also displays while pedaling.

8) Connected to Diagnostics. At the top of the Diagnostic screen, It shows ACTIVE LINE. Service screen has the same error again. Cleared the error. Disconnected bike from diagnostics. Started bike and pedaled. Shutdown and reconnected to diagnostics. Error is back.

9) Left Performance Power Pack installed and reinstalled Performance Intuvia. Turned pedals. Brief motor Op and energy display.

10) Reconnected to diagnostics. All three components show connected. No errors.

Does that really sound like the Intuvia or could it be battery? Any other ideas??
 

Nebster

Member
I'm going to take an uneducated but instinctive stab and say that the Intuvia is not the problem, but since that's the easiest thing to get swapped first, I'd still try it.

Btw, I live a few blocks from Small Planet and am glad to hear they are working with you. They are good folks.

It sounds like you have a USA unicorn that is going to be a nightmare for any service issues going forward, though. Do you get any benefit from the EU consumer protection laws? Maybe you can ship the whole thing back and get a refund if you don't get anywhere or something.
 

TrevBone

New Member
Re: Intuvia not the problem, yeah that's my hunch as well but I've got to start somewhere. And I'm reaching out to MaguraUSA to see how I can get this bike supported (swapping out components) or pressuring Bosch to support their product. I have considered sending it back but will try all feasible options first. It's s great ebike... just not a geat bike. I'll keep you posted