Not really diy more like a complete upgrade

Cal000

Member
The abbreviated version
Looking for advice on choosing a deraileur I am going to be using a -58t crank with 170mm arms
- 7s 11-34t freewheel
If I can fit a 8 speed I will go 11-40t
My choices are shimano altus acera or a deore. I'm not sure which derailleur is better the altus or the acera and then I'm not sure if the deore is worth the price increase
I'm also open to recommendations for other derailleurs

Also looking for opinions on a 1000w geared hub vs a 1500w direct drive


Full version
I have a 36v 500w 20in fattire folding bike. I got it basicly new with the original 36v 13ah battery for 500. I had been researching ebikes for about a year and figured that this would be a good introduction to ebikes and then I could sell it for the same price when I was ready to make my choice on a bike. Then I came across someone selling pretty new 48v 16ah battery for 170. I realized with the battery the bike was the perfect platform for a diy build with all the specs I want. I have a $1600 budget with 700 left.
So far I have upgraded the following components
-22amp controller
-Lcd8 came with 810 led
-hydraulic brakes
-thumb throttle
-bmx handlebars
-peddles and grips

I also have a air shock and 203mm brake rotors that I will be installing soon

The only stock parts remaining are the drive train which is what this post is about.
The bike was cool for recreational use but with the pandemic I plan on using it for commuting about 10 miles including going over the brookly bridge.
So here we finally go
I want advise on the following items

The motor I am choosing between a 1000w geared motor and a 1500w direct drive motor.
Both are part of kits from aliexpress and are about the same price 300 shipped and include the same components except the 1500w controller is 30amp. I will only use the motor and keep the rest of the kit as replacement parts
I'm assuming both power ratings are for peak power and are actually 750w geared and 1000w direct drive.
Currently I'm getting about 24mph with the motor pulling a little over 900 watts.
Not looking for more speed I want more power and reliability.
I say reliability bc I feel that the high power draw could burn out the 500w motor.

I am leaning toward the 1500w direct drive. I know geared motors offer more torque but I'm thinking I should be able to get at least as much torque as I get from my 500w motor.

I also want to change the rest of the drive train
-58t crank with 170mm arms
- 7s 11-34t freewheel
If I can fit a 8 speed I will go with a 11-40t freewheel
And this is really where I am in need of advice and help.
The derailleur I'm not sure which one I should get. My choices are shimano altus acera or a deore. I'm not sure which is better the altus or the acera and then I'm not sure if the deore is worth the price increase. I currently have a tourney.





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Nova Haibike

Well-Known Member
I am going to be using a -58t crank with 170mm arms

Is a 58T chainring going to fit?

- 7s 11-34t freewheel...If I can fit a 8 speed I will go 11-40t

Does anyone even make an 8 speed 11-40T freewheel? Be careful about many sellers listing freewheels; often they are actually selling a cassette.

My choices are shimano altus acera or a deore. I'm not sure which derailleur is better the altus or the acera and then I'm not sure if the deore is worth the price increase
I'm also open to recommendations for other derailleurs

Get a used Shimano Deore XT; the older 7, 8, or 9 speed version (RD-M735, RD-M737, or RD-M750) Just make sure you get the long cage (SGS) to accommodate the range you want. Those were built like tanks; a good used one will outlast a new cheap Shimano derailleur.
 

Nova Haibike

Well-Known Member
why wouldnt the 58t crank fit

It might not fit because the chain stay tubes that run from the bottom bracket to the rear wheel dropouts flare outwards. Depending on where and how the flare is located, the larger ring might not clear the tubes.
 

stanmiller

Active Member
The abbreviated version
Looking for advice on choosing a deraileur I am going to be using a -58t crank with 170mm arms
- 7s 11-34t freewheel
If I can fit a 8 speed I will go 11-40t
My choices are shimano altus acera or a deore. I'm not sure which derailleur is better the altus or the acera and then I'm not sure if the deore is worth the price increase
I'm also open to recommendations for other derailleurs

Also looking for opinions on a 1000w geared hub vs a 1500w direct drive

As far as groupsets go, Tourney is at the bottom, then comes Altus, then Acera. And I don't think any of those will support a 40t rear cog.

Look for motors that integrate an 8-speed freewheel hub - not the threaded freewheel kind. A freewheel hub will accept cassettes and that will give you the most choice of cog sets. With an 8 speed hub, you can install 7, 8, or 9 speed cassettes. For a 7 speed you'd need a spacer.

I installed a 9-speed MicroShift Advent group set (w/ clutch) on my Mongoose Envoy. It performs well and features a 11-42t cassette. This is a good thread to get more detail on the Advent.

A 58t chain ring will likely rise above your current chain guard and could grease a pant leg. It also seems tall for normal cadence.

Bikecalc.com is a good place to sort out gearing/speed/cadence 'whatif's'.

Good luck with the build!
 

Cal000

Member
It might not fit because the chain stay tubes that run from the bottom bracket to the rear wheel dropouts flare outwards. Depending on where and how the flare is located, the larger ring might not clear the tubes.
Thanks for the info I'm gonna measure it to see what's my max diameter.
Thanks again I need all the help I can get
 

Cal000

Member
As far as groupsets go, Tourney is at the bottom, then comes Altus, then Acera. And I don't think any of those will support a 40t rear cog.

Look for motors that integrate an 8-speed freewheel hub - not the threaded freewheel kind. A freewheel hub will accept cassettes and that will give you the most choice of cog sets. With an 8 speed hub, you can install 7, 8, or 9 speed cassettes. For a 7 speed you'd need a spacer.

I installed a 9-speed MicroShift Advent group set (w/ clutch) on my Mongoose Envoy. It performs well and features a 11-42t cassette. This is a good thread to get more detail on the Advent.

A 58t chain ring will likely rise above your current chain guard and could grease a pant leg. It also seems tall for normal cadence.

Bikecalc.com is a good place to sort out gearing/speed/cadence 'whatif's'.

Good luck with the build!
Thanks for the info I didn't know there were different types of freewheels I thought there were just freewheels and cassettes looks like I have some researchto do. The motor I was looking at was definitely on the cheap side hope that dosent mean it's bad quality. Taking a chance bc I will have the stock motor as a fall back and the motors that use cassettes are way more expensive. I want a motor that's already spiked into a wheel to make the replacement easier so that limits my options as well.

I'm learning as i go and thanks for helping me get there
 

harryS

Well-Known Member
The ecotric 20 is a 52T. A 58T will be 58/52 or 1.15X larger in diameter. Looks like plenty of room for it because the chainstays are u-shaped, not v-shaped. I do think it's a bad idea unless you have thunder thighs, because it really requires more leverage.

As for a bigger motor, the Ecotric 20 appears to be an odd duck with a 162mm dropout width instead of the typical 175 mm width on a fatbike. I couldn't get my motor upgrade to fit. And I am not bending an alloy frame. That only ends badly.
 

stanmiller

Active Member
Thanks for the info I didn't know there were different types of freewheels I thought there were just freewheels and cassettes looks like I have some researchto do. The motor I was looking at was definitely on the cheap side hope that dosent mean it's bad quality. Taking a chance bc I will have the stock motor as a fall back and the motors that use cassettes are way more expensive. I want a motor that's already spiked into a wheel to make the replacement easier so that limits my options as well.

I'm learning as i go and thanks for helping me get there
You've got it! Freewheels and Cassettes is shorthand for a threaded freewheel with integrated cogs (Freewheels) and freewheel hubs which accept changeable cassettes (Cassettes).
 

Cal000

Member
So today I pulled the trigger on a 58t crank with 170mm arms and 11-36t freewheel
Thanks for the advise guys I really appreciate it I'm sure I would have ended buying a cassette.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
No clue on your drop out issue, but I can tell you there's a dramatic difference in power and efficiency between a Leaf 1500w direct drive and a MAC 12t gear drive (a REAL 1000 watts plus). I was getting an easy 25 mile range with the Leaf motor, and after installing a MAC 12t, with no other changes, that range went to 35 miles. That, and cresting hills that left both me and the Leaf motor out of breath in PAS 5, the MAC handles them easily in PAS 3 and 4.

I attribute the better range to the idea that there's much lower amounts of power used with the MAC due to the fact it just motors over small stuff with no increase in throttle or need to increase PAS level. Noteworthy is the fact my bike is used in a rolling coastal area with a lot of hills, and I generally run at speeds under 15mph.

The MAC made a BIG difference, to the point I really enjoy this bike....
 

Cal000

Member
No clue on your drop out issue, but I can tell you there's a dramatic difference in power and efficiency between a Leaf 1500w direct drive and a MAC 12t gear drive (a REAL 1000 watts plus). I was getting an easy 25 mile range with the Leaf motor, and after installing a MAC 12t, with no other changes, that range went to 35 miles. That, and cresting hills that left both me and the Leaf motor out of breath in PAS 5, the MAC handles them easily in PAS 3 and 4.

I attribute the better range to the idea that there's much lower amounts of power used with the MAC due to the fact it just motors over small stuff with no increase in throttle or need to increase PAS level. Noteworthy is the fact my bike is used in a rolling coastal area with a lot of hills, and I generally run at speeds under 15mph.

The MAC made a BIG difference, to the point I really enjoy this bike....
No clue on your drop out issue, but I can tell you there's a dramatic difference in power and efficiency between a Leaf 1500w direct drive and a MAC 12t gear drive (a REAL 1000 watts plus). I was getting an easy 25 mile range with the Leaf motor, and after installing a MAC 12t, with no other changes, that range went to 35 miles. That, and cresting hills that left both me and the Leaf motor out of breath in PAS 5, the MAC handles them easily in PAS 3 and 4.

I attribute the better range to the idea that there's much lower amounts of power used with the MAC due to the fact it just motors over small stuff with no increase in throttle or need to increase PAS level. Noteworthy is the fact my bike is used in a rolling coastal area with a lot of hills, and I generally run at speeds under 15mph.

The MAC made a BIG difference, to the point I really enjoy this bike....
I was considering a 1500w direct drive kit from aliexpress I didnt need the full kit but I figured why not then I would have a full set of replacement parts and the price wasnt bad but after doing more research i decided to go for a 1000w hub motor your experience matches exactly what I gathered from my research hub motors have more torque and better range the direct drive motors I live in the city so my riding consist of alot of stop and go. It would have been great to get a mac motor but I couldnt find already laced into the hub and I didnt see any in 170mm. Thank for your input it confirmed what I read and convinced me to go for the hub including a link so you can see what I got
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Looks like you got a great buy! Best of luck on your conversion.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Go for it! This forum is a great asset for anyone not too shy to use it!
 

Cal000

Member
As far as groupsets go, Tourney is at the bottom, then comes Altus, then Acera. And I don't think any of those will support a 40t rear cog.

Look for motors that integrate an 8-speed freewheel hub - not the threaded freewheel kind. A freewheel hub will accept cassettes and that will give you the most choice of cog sets. With an 8 speed hub, you can install 7, 8, or 9 speed cassettes. For a 7 speed you'd need a spacer.

I installed a 9-speed MicroShift Advent group set (w/ clutch) on my Mongoose Envoy. It performs well and features a 11-42t cassette. This is a good thread to get more detail on the Advent.

A 58t chain ring will likely rise above your current chain guard and could grease a pant leg. It also seems tall for normal cadence.

Bikecalc.com is a good place to sort out gearing/speed/cadence 'whatif's'.

Good luck with the build!
Thanks for the info
That microshifter looks interesting but the difference in cost for a motor already all ready laced into a wheel with a freewheel hub was much more but the biggest concern was would it fit smallest I saw was 180 and then the 9 speed would take up even more space
 

Cal000

Member
So here where I'm at now
I went with a 1000w jueshui motor from Ali express mostly bc it already came laced into the wheel performs about the same as the stock 500w motor top speed 24mph pulls about 925w. With the larger crank and freewheel I never run out of peddle. I did not change out the derailleur but I'm not able to shift into the lowest gear. I may just need to adjust the derailleur
Currently thinking about switching to a 750w bafang midrive. But first I'm going to try a different battery and controller like a 30amp controller and 52v or 60v.
 

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kmccune

Active Member
You could have stuck the 48 volt battery with a proper controller and got more speed, that 11 tooth anything should have give given you more speed( stock units usually start at 14 teeth) I had a 26" FTB that you could go over 30 mph with an 11 tooth freewheel.
The DD Motor would have lasted forever and given you the capacity for regen.
 

JES2020

Active Member
So here where I'm at now
I went with a 1000w jueshui motor from Ali express mostly bc it already came laced into the wheel performs about the same as the stock 500w motor top speed 24mph pulls about 925w. With the larger crank and freewheel I never run out of peddle. I did not change out the derailleur but I'm not able to shift into the lowest gear. I may just need to adjust the derailleur
Currently thinking about switching to a 750w bafang midrive. But first I'm going to try a different battery and controller like a 30amp controller and 52v or 60v.
Love them gangsta whitewalls !