Ok, so I narrowed it down, but still need help please.....

Ridin222

Active Member
I am back online (was in the hospital for a bit) and have narrowed down my first ebike choices (from previous posts):

1) Biktrix Juggernaut Classic (https://www.biktrix.com/pages/juggernaut-classic-details)

2) Biktrix Juggernaut HD (https://www.biktrix.com/pages/juggernaut-classic-hd-details)

3) Juiced Ripcurrent S (https://www.juicedbikes.com/collections/e-bikes/products/ripcurrent-s)

4) Bolton Sabre (https://boltonebikes.com/collections/ebikes/products/sabre), though I still hold out hope the Blackbird (the bike I REALLY wanted) comes back in soon (https://boltonebikes.com/collections/ebikes/products/bolton-electric-fat-bike-24-750-watt)

So, of these 4 (well 5) ebikes, what one gives me the absolute BEST bang for the buck? $2500 is not cheap and I want to make sure I am getting a GREAT deal and something that will last a long while.

To recap- I am 5'4" with a 28" inseam. I am not crazy about stepthru or mini bikes, so am trying to find the closest mountain (looking) ebike that will work for me. I will be riding for exercise mainly. I've been going through some 'stuff' and need to get my body and mind in a healthy place. So pedaling is SUPER important for this, otherwise I would buy a moped. Haha! With that said, do I need Cadence or Torque? These confuse me some. Remember, I am new to this, so the more guidance, the better. Also, do I need rear hub motor or mid drive? I will be riding paved roads around my neighborhood as well as local and away trails which consist of a combined paved, gravel, dirt and light sand. There will be some hills to climb as well, maybe not San Francisco type hills, but hills nonetheless.

Thanks everyone!
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
If you're new to ebikes, I'd strongly recommend you watching these videos, well worth your time :)

Personally, I prefer cadence sensor & hub drive combo.

But in your case, you should get a torque sensor (give you exercise) and mid drive for mountain biking (better balance)

 

byunbee

Well-Known Member
If your focus is exercise, I wouldn’t get one with powerful motors as even at low assist levels they are pretty powerful. I also don’t recommend fat tires bikes for exercise. They are designed for the specific purpose of riding in rough terrain and not paved roads since they have very high rolling resistance.

German or Japanese made mid-drives are much better option and the experience is highly refined giving the feel of the power being an extension of your effort, not a replacement. Given that you want a mountain bike looking ebike for exercise, there is a good deal on CrazyLenny’s for Yamaha YDX-TORC demo (pretty much brand new)for a great price. You can probably negotiate down to $2500 by giving them a call. The added bonus is that the bike is available now, not 4 months later.



Also every component on the Yamaha is a big upgrade over the bare minimum cheap parts on the bikes you listed. So, if you want long-term reliability and durability, you can’t go wrong with Yamaha.
 
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Ridin222

Active Member
If you're new to ebikes, I'd strongly recommend you watching these videos, well worth your time :)

Personally, I prefer cadence sensor & hub drive combo.

But in your case, you should get a torque sensor (give you exercise) and mid drive for mountain biking (better balance)

Great, I will watch these.

And yes, I have heard elsewhere that a torque sensor with a mid drive is better suited for the exercise I need. Hopefully the videos will explain the 'why'.

Thanks again!
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
If you’re focus is exercise, I wouldn’t get one with powerful motors as even at low assist levels they are pretty powerful. I also don’t recommend fat tires bikes for exercise. They are designed for the specific purpose of riding in rough terrain and not paved roads since they have very high rolling resistance.

German or Japanese made mid-drives are much better option and the experience is highly refined giving the feel of the power being and extension of your effort, not a replacement. Given that you want a mountain bike looking ebike for exercise, there is a good deal on CrazyLenny’s for Yamaha YDX-TORC demo (pretty much brand new)for a great price. You can probably negotiate down to $2500 by giving them a call. The added bonus is that the bike is available now, not 4 months later.

I didn't know the Yamaha TDX TORC could be bought for that price!!!
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
Great, I will watch these.

And yes, I have heard elsewhere that a torque sensor with a mid drive is better suited for the exercise I need. Hopefully the videos will explain the 'why'.

Thanks again!
you're welcome!
 

Ridin222

Active Member
If you’re focus is exercise, I wouldn’t get one with powerful motors as even at low assist levels they are pretty powerful. I also don’t recommend fat tires bikes for exercise. They are designed for the specific purpose of riding in rough terrain and not paved roads since they have very high rolling resistance.

German or Japanese made mid-drives are much better option and the experience is highly refined giving the feel of the power being and extension of your effort, not a replacement. Given that you want a mountain bike looking ebike for exercise, there is a good deal on CrazyLenny’s for Yamaha YDX-TORC demo (pretty much brand new)for a great price. You can probably negotiate down to $2500 by giving them a call. The added bonus is that the bike is available now, not 4 months later.



Also every component on the Yamaha is a big upgrade over the bare minimum cheap parts on the bikes you listed. So, if you want long-term reliability and durability, you can’t go wrong with Yamaha.
Thank you. Wow, that is a good looking bike. But is a 500w motor 'good enough'? I feel all bikes now have a 750w or 1000w. Like if I were to take on some crazy hill, will 500w do the trick? Forgive my ignorance on all this.

As for tires, I like the look/feel/stability of fat tires. But I understand they are not so much meant for daily travels that aren't 'offroad'. Biktrix has an option of what tires one may want and show a 27.5x3" option. So maybe that would be a compromise?

Thanks again!
 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
Great, I will watch these.

And yes, I have heard elsewhere that a torque sensor with a mid drive is better suited for the exercise I need. Hopefully the videos will explain the 'why'.

Thanks again!

I second the recommendation for a mid-drive on any EMTB... the Yamaha drive is a solid choice and good value.

 

Captain Slow

Well-Known Member
+1 for me on Byunbee's comments.

I have two electric bikes and two regular bikes. One of my bikes is a Juiced Cross Current S, which is less powerful that the Rip Current. I find that even on Eco that the power is higher than I'd like if I'm trying to get some exercise. It's more for running errands than anything. My Specialized Creo is better for getting exercise, but to be honest looking at my Garmin stats when I ride the Creo it's still hard to get a workout if I'm riding with others. Mainly because others have trouble keeping up when you have a motor and they don't. Not sure if you're riding with others and they have motors, etc .......

Anyone my recommendation would be to go with a lightweight ebike. That will give you the benefits as well as allowing you to get exercise. If the Specialized SL series is out of your budget then I'd suggest a bike with the Mahle X-motion 35 system. Lots of bikes have it, I think Cannondale has some lower priced models with it. That will allow you to get a lightweight electric bike.

I believe Orbea's version of the X-motion 35 system allows one to tune the power levels in an app. I think that's important if you're looking for exercise because you can lower the assistance settings if you like. My Juiced doesn't allow that. My Creo has similar tuning in the app, and I can reduce the power on the lowest level to a mere 5% assist. It would allow you to experiment with different levels and you could set up a profile for say running errands where the power levels are higher, and then another profile for exercise where they're lower. Then you just select whichever profile is suited to the type of ride you're planning on doing.
 

Ridin222

Active Member
+1 for me on Byunbee's comments.

I have two electric bikes and two regular bikes. One of my bikes is a Juiced Cross Current S, which is less powerful that the Rip Current. I find that even on Eco that the power is higher than I'd like if I'm trying to get some exercise. It's more for running errands than anything. My Specialized Creo is better for getting exercise, but to be honest looking at my Garmin stats when I ride the Creo it's still hard to get a workout if I'm riding with others. Mainly because others have trouble keeping up when you have a motor and they don't. Not sure if you're riding with others and they have motors, etc .......

Anyone my recommendation would be to go with a lightweight ebike. That will give you the benefits as well as allowing you to get exercise. If the Specialized SL series is out of your budget then I'd suggest a bike with the Mahle X-motion 35 system. Lots of bikes have it, I think Cannondale has some lower priced models with it. That will allow you to get a lightweight electric bike.

I believe Orbea's version of the X-motion 35 system allows one to tune the power levels in an app. I think that's important if you're looking for exercise because you can lower the assistance settings if you like. My Juiced doesn't allow that. My Creo has similar tuning in the app, and I can reduce the power on the lowest level to a mere 5% assist. It would allow you to experiment with different levels and you could set up a profile for say running errands where the power levels are higher, and then another profile for exercise where they're lower. Then you just select whichever profile is suited to the type of ride you're planning on doing.
Oh wow! I didn't even realize something like that existed. Now I have more to think about. I swear, every time I feel my decision is being wrapped up, more information finds me and I start all over again. Lol! I've been shopping for at least 2-3 months now when all I really wanna be doing at this point is riding. I just want to make the absolute right choice. My TOP budget is $2500 and I would like fenders and a rack with that. Maybe I am pickier than I thought. Haha! Anyway, off to look at your recommendations now. :)
 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
Good luck with your search and be careful of analysis/paralysis... every day counts that you could be riding! 😉

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Timpo

Well-Known Member
Thank you. Wow, that is a good looking bike. But is a 500w motor 'good enough'? I feel all bikes now have a 750w or 1000w. Like if I were to take on some crazy hill, will 500w do the trick? Forgive my ignorance on all this.

As for tires, I like the look/feel/stability of fat tires. But I understand they are not so much meant for daily travels that aren't 'offroad'. Biktrix has an option of what tires one may want and show a 27.5x3" option. So maybe that would be a compromise?

Thanks again!
The short answer is yes.

Also mid drives are more efficient compare to hub drive, especially climbing up hills, that's why it gets good battery range without wasting too much power.

I would not get too caught up on W rating of motor. That's only nominal, not max.. (there are nominal rating and max rating) it would also depend on how controller is programmed too.

The Bosch 250W mid drive for example, is plenty for your needs.
Grin Technologies in Canada actually measured exact wattage of Bosch 250W motor.. and at max, it was well over 800W.

Case in point, just because the motor says 250W, it doesn't mean it's not powerful.
(Yeah I know, ebikes are overwhelmingly confusing for beginners.) 😅
 

RandallS

Well-Known Member
I am being considered as the poster boy of the paralysis by analysis crowd, but one thing I learned through my latest ebike purchase adventure, was to be really clear in your own head as to how you are intending to use the bike. Everything is a compromise to some degree. Price, power, comfort, features, components etc. It's like that Project Management triangle of Cost, Time and Scope - pick any two.

I ended up on a Hard Tail eMTB, the Giant Fathom E+1 Pro, which didn't have everything on it that I thought I wanted, but allows me to go onto more difficult terrain than my original intention of the Giant Explore E+2. I can add a rack and lights for paths and roads (with a pannier for more robust locks when required), but fenders are unnecessary for where I live. Why I went MTB was I have some pretty good MTB terrain basically just out my front door. Yes there are paved and packed gravel paths, but also tons of trails. The MTB does all of them safely but the hybrid (Explore), in my opinion, would not handle the rougher terrain as well on its narrower tires.

Finally, go ride a bike from one of the big 3, with their 250w motors, and decide if you really need more power. I've powered up some 20% grades lately and it was no big deal. As you'll need to visit a bike shop to do this, think about servicing. Are you going to work on this bike yourself, or will you want a professional to do it?

Best of luck with your search and hopefully you'll find what you want soon, so you can get out there and enjoy it.
 

Captain Slow

Well-Known Member
Yes, the wattage ratings can be very misleading. I think it's because of laws restricting output of motors.

fwiw - My Creo is a 240 watt motor and while I'm not able to determine the amount of power it's adding because I don't mount my phone on the handlebars I think I'm getting well less than 100 watts of assistance all the time and given how light the bike is, I feel it's still a significant amount of assistance.

My Juiced displays the amount of power being added in real time and even in Eco it's typically adding 200+ watts. Despite it being a 63 lb. bike I still feel this is more assistance than I want most of the time. But everyone is different. I'm adding these sorts of comments because you wanted exercise when you're riding an ebike. If that's the case then I truly believe less is more.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Finally, go ride a bike from one of the big 3, with their 250w motors, and decide if you really need more power.
Are you aware Randall that your "250 W" motor produces as much as 520 W in the POWER mode when you're mashing the pedals?
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
In addition, just because two motors say 750W, both hub drive, doesn't mean they're equal.

There's a bike called Rad Rover, and ebike tuner called Bolton.

Bolton sells this beefier motor for Rad Rover (externally identical, but beefy internals such as stator, magnet, coil, etc)
Anyways, it has much better performance because of that.

Bolton's point was, yes, both of those motors can drain 750W of electricity.
But just because two motors are draining 750W of electricity, doesn't mean the performance is going to be the same.
 

RandallS

Well-Known Member
Are you aware Randall that your "250 W" motor produces as much as 520 W in the POWER mode when you're mashing the pedals?
Yes, I was just pointing out that 250 W motors can assist you up some pretty steep climbs. Unless you live in a very hilly place like San Francisco, you don't likely need the "ultra" motors.

This is coming from someone who lives and plays in the foothills of the Canadian Rockies.
 

byunbee

Well-Known Member
Looks like someone gobbled up that Yamaha YD-TORC. That was was a good deal on a great bike.
 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
Looks like someone gobbled up that Yamaha YD-TORC. That was was a good deal on a great bike.

That went fast... here is another deal for a Haibike Trekking 2.0 (Demo) for $1880.

 

Ridin222

Active Member
Looks like someone gobbled up that Yamaha YD-TORC. That was was a good deal on a great bike.
Wow, too fast. =( It's super hard for me to pull the trigger as I like to do all my research first. Thanks for the pointer though.