Online rider training courses?

mogulskier

Active Member
Speaking of Sur Ron e-bikes. Locally, and sadly, an ebike fatality yesterday.


"A closer look at the bike, a Sur Ron electric bicycle, helped officers determine it was not built for highway use, according to Courtney. It was built as an off-highway bike meant for dirt tracks or smaller roads. Sumner Avenue is considered a highway due to a loose definition of the word. When the bike is classified as off-highway, it means it’s not built to be used on public roads."
 

ebikemom

Well-Known Member
Interesting so the BC Provincial ebike regulations are being interpreted by the authorities to mean no throttle take off
That’s too bad, because some people with bad knees need a throttle takeoff. I certainly use them on when I’m faced uphill. It kind of seems that maybe they think starting with the throttle is some kind of zooming thing that lays rubber down on the road… Sounds like they don’t understand the capabilities of most E bikes.
 

JES2020

Well-Known Member
Region
Other
Even watching what kind of training you do for various maneuvers, can help.

Even watching what kind of training you do for various maneuvers, can help.
Never been a fan of those boats on two wheels. I like the lean mean bikes, like a Ducati or the sport Kawasakis. It's like driving a bus compared to a Porsche 911. A Ducati could take those turns side by side with another Ducati
Besides that what the hell are you going to do if you slide on some sand and now you have to pick up a 800 + lb monstrosity?
I'm the same way with aircraft, My experimental tail drager, could fly circles around most other planes I've flown, and it only had a 1800 cc VW engine in it. the amount of input you needed on the joystick was the size of a 50 cent piece !
 

Handlebars

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
Never been a fan of those boats on two wheels. I like the lean mean bikes, like a Ducati or the sport Kawasakis. It's like driving a bus compared to a Porsche 911. A Ducati could take those turns side by side with another Ducati
Besides that what the hell are you going to do if you slide on some sand and now you have to pick up a 800 + lb monstrosity?
I'm the same way with aircraft, My experimental tail drager, could fly circles around most other planes I've flown, and it only had a 1800 cc VW engine in it. the amount of input you needed on the joystick was the size of a 50 cent piece !
Nice! Wish I could do that.
My bike is more like the boat with slightly balloon tires and probably 80 lbs when loaded up with groceries and more upright posture with pulled back bars and cushy saddle.
 

RunForTheHills

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Out here in California, you need to pass the MSF course before you can get an M1 endorsement on your Driver's License. It is important that you do so, because a long time ago, the police loved doing paper checks at various stops in the mountains, for speeding, non CARB exhaust systems, illegal license plate location, etc, etc.

Downside is that once you have it, there is nothing stopping you from buying a GSX-R1000 or similar Superbike right out of the gate.

For scooters and e-bikes, the MSF and/or similar training is overkill and a waste of time, and should be completely voluntary. If you can ride a bike, you can ride a scooter/ebike.

Motorcycles are in a different class altogether and training is absolutely essential. But for scooters/ebikes, it is voluntary and I don't see the point of it.
When I was a teenager 40 years ago, my Dad had a 49cc scooter called a Yamahopper that was registered as a motorcycle. I took the test on that bike in California and I still have an M1 endorsement today even though I have never ridden a real motorcycle in my life.
 

JES2020

Well-Known Member
Region
Other
When I was a teenager 40 years ago, my Dad had a 49cc scooter called a Yamahopper that was registered as a motorcycle. I took the test on that bike in California and I still have an M1 endorsement today even though I have never ridden a real motorcycle in my life.
That's actually an easy way to get an MC endorsement...take the test on a scooter or a 125cc dirt bike LOL, then go out and ride a Boss Hoss with a v8 in it LOL.
 

FrankR

Active Member
Region
USA
City
Milky Way Galaxy
I found this older thread when searching to see if there was MSF-like material for eBikes.
Would love to see some form of that.
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Minnesnowta
I found this older thread when searching to see if there was MSF-like material for eBikes.
Would love to see some form of that.
I took the MSF course twice and a Lee Parks track day 20 years ago. I insist a friend and do many of the field exercises on a local community college MSF marked tarmac. I know what my panic stop distance is for each of my bikes. To me stopping distance and brake efficiency are most important.
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Minnesnowta
That's actually an easy way to get an MC endorsement...take the test on a scooter or a 125cc dirt bike LOL, then go out and ride a Boss Hoss with a v8 in it LOL.
Kinda terrifying on several levels. The UK style of licensing would definitely take a lot of US citizens off their MC.
 

FrankR

Active Member
Region
USA
City
Milky Way Galaxy
I took the MSF course twice and a Lee Parks track day 20 years ago. I insist a friend and do many of the field exercises on a local community college MSF marked tarmac. I know what my panic stop distance is for each of my bikes. To me stopping distance and brake efficiency are most important.

When my son got the itch, I insisted that step 1 was the course. He loved it, of course.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
That's actually an easy way to get an MC endorsement...take the test on a scooter or a 125cc dirt bike LOL, then go out and ride a Boss Hoss with a v8 in it LOL.
I agree, but I have to wonder where's the sense in doing something like that? Those tests are generally not that difficult, especially for an experienced rider. Why not use the experience as a chance to advance your ability a bit? Think you're a hot shot rider? Do it on a Boss Hoss for the grin factor!
 

FrankR

Active Member
Region
USA
City
Milky Way Galaxy
When I ride in a lot next, I am going to work on panic stops on this bike.
 

JES2020

Well-Known Member
Region
Other
When I ride in a lot next, I am going to work on panic stops on this bike.
My training for a bike was... training wheels. Take the wheels off and figure the rest out for yourself.
If you know how to ride a bike , that should be enough for an ebike.
One exception would be the mid-motor and that would be just to protect the driveshaft.

If you rode a bike as a kid you know that when you ride through a puddle, you need to use the brakes to dry off the rim, that is about the only specialty knowledge you need.
Therefore I don't see any traction for a MSF safety course for ebikes.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
My training for a bike was... training wheels. Take the wheels off and figure the rest out for yourself.
If you know how to ride a bike , that should be enough for an ebike.
One exception would be the mid-motor and that would be just to protect the driveshaft.

If you rode a bike as a kid you know that when you ride through a puddle, you need to use the brakes to dry off the rim, that is about the only specialty knowledge you need.
Therefore I don't see any traction for a MSF safety course for ebikes.
Likely because you've never been exposed to the MSF course contents, or the near constant exchange of ideas between those taking the class. It really is a lot of fun. Not pushing for anyone to be forced to take a course for any reason. Just promoting the idea of taking the course knowing it's potential for new ideas, the experience gained!

You can fly a plane easy enough (point it into the wind, give it max power, and pull back!), but communicating with the tower/busy ATC in an acceptable manner is a little more challenging, as are a hundred other situations that might arise when the wheels leave the runway. Are you shy of gaining experience that might help dealing with some of that? Exchanging ideas with others with similar interests?
 

ScottFields

New Member
Region
USA
I agree that practical exercises will give much more results, but a theoretical course will also be useful in learning some details in order to try them in practice. At least you can better understand the physics of control. For example, many religious people find it much easier to understand the Bible with the help of resources https://samplius.com/free-essay-examples/bible/ with free essay samples. Some important details are not learned by reading.
 
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AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
I agree that practical exercises will give much more results, but a theoretical course will also be useful in learning some details in order to try them in practice. At least you can better understand the physics of control.
Is there something specific somebody here might be able to lend a hand on?
 

Handlebars

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
Interesting so the BC Provincial ebike regulations are being interpreted by the authorities to mean no throttle take off. That should be relatively easy to fix in the controller to require the rider reach a minimum speed say 6kmh before the throttle is active. But the moped style ebike the student in the article is riding has only vestigial pedals, I wonder if it can be pedaled from stationary.
Provincial regulations are mostly both illogical and garbage and sometimes never have been followed by anyone.
Take, for example, the requirement of a sticker affixed by manufacturer stating the ebike complies with regulations.


New Brunswick
"Manufacturers of e-bikes must permanently affix a label, in a conspicuous location, stating in both official languages that the vehicle is a power-assisted bicycle as defined in the regulations under the federal Motor Vehicle Safety Act. Homemade e-bikes will not have this label."

But who is a manufacturer of an ebike? What characteristics make a manufacturer? Is it the motor maker? The frame maker? The assembler? The seller? Why isn't a homemade bike "manufactured" by the homie?

Why do they say a homemade ebike will not have this label? May I not decide to make an ebike and put on a label?

The regs are made by stupid people. That is all.
 
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Handlebars

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
I agree that practical exercises will give much more results, but a theoretical course will also be useful in learning some details in order to try them in practice. At least you can better understand the physics of control.
When taking off from stop on a right hand turn, look where you want to go, and do not release the throttle or stop pedaling until you complete the turn. That was my first lesson. Letting off the power on a turn from stopped is different on an ebike than on a pedal bike.