Open Letter to Sondors/Indiegogo - awaiting response.

EULITTLB

Active Member
As a "contributor" I have now learnt of a gmail email address which is apparently active - stormebike@gmail.com. This was sent at 0800 GMT on 24/02/15.

Good Morning
Firstly my congratulations on being a "Campaign Owner” and the resounding response that you have had to your recent “Campaign."
As a “Contributor" I understand I am entitled to pose questions and as a “Campaign Owner” you are obliged to answer these questions truthfully and promptly, in accordance with the Terms of Conditions as set out by Indiegogo. I have copied this to Indiegogo for their reference as well, or in case my mail gets returned - in that instance I request Indiegogo to forward this email immediately to the Sondors bike team.
  1. Please can you confirm that any “pledge or contribution” for a Sondors bike will not be subject to any further charges such as a) import duties b) sales taxes in the “Contributors Territory” wherever it may be in the world?
  2. Please may you further confirm that the cost of the battery and shipping it (separately I understand) is included in the “Pledge or Contribution” amount for which almost every “Contributor” believes they will receive a Sondors bike, or bikes?
  3. I refer now to the statement that people such as myself making Pledges or Contributions have to agree to, set out here - "By clicking 'Continue', you acknowledge that you understand that you are contributing to a work-in-progress and not making a direct purchase. Perks are managed by the campaigners and cannot be guaranteed by Indiegogo. Your click also acknowledges that you agree to the Indiegogo Terms of Use.”
a) Please can you confirm that the bike that was used to allow people to ride on at the Demo Day in Santa Monica is the final production version and that the Sondors bike is no longer a work in progress, in spite of the statement on the Indiegogo website?
b) Please can you confirm that the measured weight of 59lbs with battery is not subject to change any longer having risen from 45lbs at the start of the Campaign
c) Please can you confirm that the range of 50 miles as advertised at the start of the Campaign - now amended to 50 miles with pedal assist - is not subject to change and is an accurate reflection of the bikes potential performance. Mr Sondors himself has been quoted suggesting different levels of range and I would just like clarity.
d) Please can you confirm that the battery has a full charge time of 90 minutes - please clarify from what level of charge the battery has to be at for this claim to be accurate.
e) The 350W motor, which has been revised from 380W at the start of the campaign, is not legal for use in the EU and the bike should be limited to 15mph for use in the EU - please can you confirm for those Contributors from EU Territories that their Sondors bike will be fitted with the appropriate motor to comply with EU legislation?
f) Please can you confirm is a production model can be made available to the Bike Press for their evaluation and to allay any concerns of “Contributors.”
g) Please can you identify when, within a reasonable timeframe “Contributors” may receive their “Perk(s)?”
h) Please can you confirm that the Sondors bike will retail at $1299 after the campaign has ended and early “Contributors” are rewarded with the same said “perk" at the lower Pledge of $499/$599/$699 as appropriate.
i) Please can you acknowledge, or comment on, my view that the “Perk Insurance” is a paid service which “Contributors” already have the protection of having read the Terms and Conditions of Indiegogo? In Summary if their “Contribution” is not rewarded with a “Perk” then they have recourse to pursue Mr Sondors (I am unclear whether your first name is Ivars or Storm) for compensation or to reach a satisfactory agreement, and if this is unsuccessful then Indiegogo will provide “Contributors” with contact details.
Thank you for your attention and I look forwards to an immediate, if not prompt response.
Yours Faithfully
Ian Grace (my company credentials are listed below in order that you can verify I have no association whatsoever with the bike industry, either in the USA or elsewhere)
 

wa5

Well-Known Member
I realise that a month ago Sondors cycles has little more than a dream, and I understand that their success must be as much a surprise to them as anybody else, but does a Gmail account give you confidence?. when ever I sell anything on Gumtree (our version of Craigslist).. the first enquiries to come through, are always the Nigerian scammers.. and they always have a Gmail account.
 

EULITTLB

Active Member
Am walking my dogs in the pissing rain and corresponding with a guy in Claremont who wants to buy stuff - I asked him would he like a reference from another Aussie who has visited me in my premises and bought some speakers, shipped to Oz by sea. He lives 10 mins down the road, first client said of course I'll speak with him here is my tel no!

What's my point exactly? In this modern age there is no need for silence when all is above board, vague statements can be clarified, claims can be proven swiftly and that is one of the reasons I am persisting trying to make people as aware of these non actions as I can. I would be singing it from the rooftops if I had a bike that was 1/3 cost of the market rate and put manners on the Bosch Power Pack range
 
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wa5

Well-Known Member
For a business operation that excelled through social media, they have really dropped the ball when it comes to public relations..

So you are kind of like Ray Charles, in the Blues Brothers :)
 

EULITTLB

Active Member
Lol damn I'll have to watch the film again to understand the point you are making - I suspect they have been found out already.

When I asked when the next demo is I think it was Bruce who explained it is raining so they cannot schedule
 

EULITTLB

Active Member
How ugly is this? First I do not know what i am talking about, have never ridden an ebike, never constructed BUT a major ebike Company has hired me to damage the Sondors Campaign?

the.insurance.guy
4 minutes ago
News Flash this just in from a VERY RELIABLE source. “ian grace” was hired by a MAJOR eBike company to sabotage this campaign via social media and in the comment section of this campaign.

Again found out this morning from a very reliable source that “ian grace” was hired to spam and sabotage this campaign by a very large eBike company.
 

EULITTLB

Active Member
Trev, this is going to die a death now I am afraid but lets keep in touch and keep posting - it is all a waiting game and with nothing, nada, zilch coming out of the Sondors "Team" it is all guesswork from hereon, I stand by my words 100% that if it actually comes to realisation then this will be fraught with logistical and sales tax issues/import duties where applicable (the value of the bike is after all $1299 and duties will have to be paid on the value), the performance will be far off what is claimed, and there will be a sting in the tail. I'm going to have a beer and leave this for a few days....
 

wa5

Well-Known Member
Stay safe mate, BTW Ray Charles sold used musical equipment in the Blues Brothers (I was asking with tongue firmly planted in cheek )..
 

EULITTLB

Active Member
Stay safe mate, BTW Ray Charles sold used musical equipment in the Blues Brothers (I was asking with tongue firmly planted in cheek )..
Well I supply used, nearly new and new equipment (for those outside the EU) but appreciate the explanation. Still haven't hear from Fofer and there was no malice intended - google ads are splashed over almost every page I visit, claiming 50 mile range, it is false and misleading and how the Campaign is stalling now....... people are wizening up i hope. He a good one Trev and everybody!
 

wa5

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure the campaign has stalled due to people "wising up".. I think they have just reached saturation point (I'm sure people who know more about such things than me would be able to provide the number of Ebikes sold in the US each year and the percentage of (pending) sales Storm has taken. but its not chicken feed).. I think most of these bikes were reserved with full payment, by people who have little or no previous interest / expertise in eBikes.. people who would no sooner come to a site like this than fly... you have to admit that their campaign to relieve a large number of people from their money whilst so far providing nothing in return has been brilliantly executed.
I doubt anything your or I wrote has influenced more than a handful of people. We saw a red flag and tried to bring it to peoples attention, just as we would hope they'd warn us... We can do no more than that.

I think the slowing of sales may also have something to do with the price rising.. the thing that caught my attention about the bike (apart from the eyecatching look) was the price.. under $500 was the phsychological point where people thought, "gee that's cheap"... 599 or higher might be a bit of a tipping point..
 

EULITTLB

Active Member
fair point, I didn't want to take any credit personally for the Campaign stalling, the same concerns are being voiced elsewhere - the adsense campaign would have cost lots of money
 

bmw

New Member
Why do people who did either not contribute or contribute just USD 1 make such a big fuss? If you don't feel comfortable contributing to crowdfunding go to a shop and buy a finished product. If I were Sondors I wouldn't reply to those internet trolls neither.

And that infamous Prodecotech company "built in USA" does NOT even feature their address on their website. Their return policy states that you can return their bikes to ProdecoTech.com Well try to ship a bike to an internet address ... will be quite a challenge for DHL to deliver.
 

EULITTLB

Active Member
Who are you to say what someone should do or shouldn't do for any given reason? Sondors is obliged by the t's and c's of IGG to respond to Contributors questions truthfully and promptly, has he done so? No.
 

bmw

New Member
Well I am real and NOT an internet troll and I contributed more than USD 1 and I took the time to read the site, the FAQ and the updates. Those who can read have a clear advantage. They can save themselves and others those stupid questions and false assumptions.
 

wa5

Well-Known Member
For me. the bike would have cost at least $750 (500 plus 250 international freight) I can get an ebike off Ebay for not much more.. not a fat bike that looks as cool, but a serviceable bike none the less. heres a three speed nexus hub equipped Ebike delivered to me for $850 (what the Stonders would cost now at $599 plus P&H), and I can have it now.. doesn't look as cool as the Storm, but its real and available, and has similar specs and is legal for Australia and Europe. has slightly more battery, but really not enough to make much of a difference.. loses out on brakes, wins on three speed hub..

http://www.ebay.com.au

or I could get this Stealth look a like for $699 its two hours away from me .. could either pick it up or organize my own freight. either way would be less then the $120 they are quoting...
http://www.ebay.com.au
 

EULITTLB

Active Member
Well I am real and NOT an internet troll and I contributed more than USD 1 and I took the time to read the site, the FAQ and the updates. Those who can read have a clear advantage. They can save themselves and others those stupid questions and false assumptions.
Thank You for that - so you know whether the bike will be shipped with a 200w motor to the EU and who is responsible for sales taxes and duties - please send me a link.
 

EULITTLB

Active Member
Will the spec be changed again @bmw ? Is the performance of 50 mile range (without pedal assist) as claimed on the Adsense adverts accurate?

I was open and honest about becoming a contributor and I have bought nothing just as you haven't, but you paid more for the right to buy nothing and to lose your money.