PAS 1 to fast/strong... What are my options to lower it?

CAGE RATTLER

New Member
Got my 1st ebike a few weeks ago and as much as I like the bike, PAS 1 is just to fast.
Even after all the tweaks to the display settings to weaken the power and sensitivity, pas1 is running at 11-12 mph and that's pedaling lightly in 7th gear.
If I downshift to 6th gear or move up to pas2, I cant keep up with the speed by pedaling.
The way its setup, gears 1-5 and pas level 2-5 are useless I guess, unless I'm climbing a big hill which I don't have around me.

I know I can change the gearing to give me more pedal and allow the use of more gears and probably pas 2 but that wont change the fact that pas1 is running at 11 mph and I would like it much lower.

I've been doing some research and have read about CYCLE ANALYST 3.0 that will allow you to lower the PAS settings, along with allot of other things. I've also heard of other displays that give more setting control but don't know what will work with my setup. I'm assuming to use a different display, I'll need a new controller but I have no idea where to start on figuring out what will work with what. I doubt its out there but something just plug and play would be awesome but if I have to do some rewiring im ok with that as long as I have a good guide or instructions to go by.

So what are my options?
Any help would be much appreciated.

(My Bike: Aostirmotors S07-B with 750 watt Truckrun Rear hub motor, SW-U-LCD display)
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
If you forgive me rather frivolous answer: Specialized carry a sales of Turbo Vado 4.0 with double discount now. There, you can set the assistance level freely using a smartphone app (if you want 10% support then you get it). The mid-drive motor supports you exactly with the rhythm of your pedalling and works together with you through the drive-train. You pedal lightly and get even less support there. Smaller but more effective power of 250 W nominal (520 W peak) lets you ride either very slow or very fast. High torque makes you leave the junction in few seconds. It comes at cost but Turbo Vados were never as inexpensive as their are now.

Seriously: 750 W motor means very much power. The hub-drive motor is pushing you with constant force and you cannot do anything to ride slower (unless you set the PAS to 0). That kind of e-bikes cannot have their PAS adjusted, at least to my knowledge.
 

Solom01

Well-Known Member
No there are ebikes with hub motors that can have their PAS power adjusted. The ebikeMotion system, for example, allows you to adjust the maximum power put out in each of the three active power levels from 0% to 100%, thus you can set level one to be 30%, level 2 to be 70% and level 3 to be 100% for example, or whatever amount you want. Part of the misinformation about hub systems is that everyone keeps comparing $1000 bikes like the RADs to relatively expensive mid-drive motors. If you have the budget for a more expensive bike there are hub drives that allow for a smooth power delivery without the built-in disadvantages of mid-drives such as more wear on the chain and gearing, q-factor issues, and so forth. There are good examples of each type of drive system, people just have to actually try both and see which they prefer instead of wholeheartedly drinking the koolaid and letting other people tell you what is best for you.
 

6zfshdb

Well-Known Member
I would first contact the manufacturer or dealer and find out if 11-12 mph is normal for PAS 1 and ask if it can be adjusted. It could be you have a defective controller. For comparison, PAS 1 on my Pedego Interceptor with 500W hub motor yields 7-8 mph. 750W is a lot of power and it may be that your bike is simply designed to go fast.

Changing gear ratios only works with mid drive motors and will have no effect on a hub drive.

Here's a trick I sometimes use: I turn off the PAS and use throttle only mode. I apply just enough throttle, combined with the pedal effort I'm comfortable with, to get the speed I want. I find this useful when keeping pace with other riders. My bike has a twist throttle and I sometimes get hand cramps while holding it for long periods. To fix this, I added a simple adapter which lets me use my thumb to activate the throttle.
 
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indianajo

Well-Known Member
The problem is not the hub motor. The problem is the controller.
My ebikeling controller had that problem. 11 mph pas1, 250 W minimum acceleration.
I bought a DD hub motor without pas, and used that controller with the ebikeling motor. The motor only comes on now when I use the throttle.
The trick is finding a controller with similar connectors.
However, there may be another way. If you held the up & down buttons both down when you turned on the ebikeling controller, it went into setup mode. There were about 50 parameters. One of them may have something to do with speed. I didn't have the patience to write down all the initial settings, and then change them one at a time to find the speed one. Maybe you do.
 
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Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
750W is a lot of power and it may be that your bike is simply designed to go fast.
I think so. If the OP's controller is set to, say, 30%, it is equivalent to my 250 W hub-drive motor e-bike set to PAS 5 (max). With such power, my bike reaches 20 mph in several seconds and it refuses to ride any slower.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
So here's the deal. It's not simple, but it's not rocket science either. It's about the "firmware" (programming) written in to the controller. Depending on the manf, sometimes it can be adjusted, sometimes it can't. When it comes to PAS levels, not all are created equally. Some are geared to sense speed, some to supplied voltage, others to the amount of wattage being supplied.

In addition to the amount of each, some allow you to change whether they sense speed, voltage, or wattage.

It's my belief that for best control, you would choose (max.) wattage. This way, it would make no difference what speed you were running, the assist from the motor will not change. You can be going 5 mph, or 20 mph, and if the max wattage available is 100w for instance (typical in PAS 1), the assist from the motor will be the same. This fairly low power setting will allow you to pedal slow enough where it's hard to keep your balance easily. Keep in mind, it's going to take about 50 watts just to allow the controller to do it's internal housekeeping. That leaves just 50 watts actually powering the motor.

If you are not able to work out a solution with the dealer or bike manf. you'll need to change the controller (and probably the display) to something available on the aftermarket - after some careful shopping. -Al

BTW, my bike has up to about 1500w available, and it's very capable of going too slow to keep your balance in PAS 1. It's about the software!
 

dodahman

Active Member
CR, I found myself in the same spot, and learned to live with it. My wife can't keep up with her non ebike, like we planned, but I can still ride alone, or talk her into an ebike one day. I did find that if I start out with the battery at 80 percent vs a full charge, the speed/power up curve was lowered a bit, and my ride more enjoyable. Others here can give more details on actually fixing the issue.

Good luck.
 

harryS

Well-Known Member
PAS 1 is too fast. This is a common complaint on most inexpensive hub motor ebikes and many ebike conversion kits. I agree with indiana-jo. Better controllers can be set to go slower. I had an ebikeling kit with a pretty LCD, but it would go 18 mph in PAS 1.

One of my bikes is an inexpensive Ecotric 20" fat tire bike ($700) . Originally 11-12 mph in PAS 1. I bought a different controller/LCD, $75. Now it's better and on cold days, I need PAS 2 to go 10 mph. I don't think there is any other solution although the Cycle analyst might work.

Cycle analyst converts your PAS signals to a throttle voltage, so your controller needs a throttle. And if it already had a display, now you have two. If you're OK with soldering, just change controllers,
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
The CA display, and a compatible controller, is going to give you all kinds of control, no doubt. It may be a bit much though.

I would offer that the KT based controllers and displays have a pretty good reputation, are able to be configured pretty easily (especially when compared to a CA), and will give you all the control you're looking for when it comes to setting up your PAS.

Check out something like this:

Note that even though you already have most of the necessary accessories (like a PAS sensor or brake levers w/cut off for instance), this supplier offers them super cheap, and they'll have the correct ends on them, allowing you the choice between plug and play using their stuff, or matching your existing. There is no doubt you'll need to match the battery connector to controller (look into a pair of XT60 or XT90 connectors). That will leave you with just the motor connections to figure out. They can be a challenge, but most DIY'ers get through that step OK.

This supplier (pswpower) has been around a while, has a decent reputation, and I've used them several times. -Al
 

indianajo

Well-Known Member
A lot of controllers have the rectangular 6 pin connector with the flat pins that can be pushed out. both mine were that way. The power & 3 phase motor connectors, those can be crimped on pretty easily. I don't solder 30 amp connections, they don't last. The brake switches, you need to buy something that those match. I had a XT60 fall off out at the summer camp that I soldered on the charger. I cut the XT60 off the battery & charger both to crimp on insulated spade terminals, which last decades if I do it right.
One controller had fork terminals for the motor phase wires to go around screws. The other had .157" bullett connectors. I cut one kind off to replace with the other. Both crimp connections are permanent since I made them with an Ideal tool. Klein also is good. Most terminal crimp tools are instant garbage. When hooking up battery, make - male & + female so you can't interchange them & blow the controller. Warning, ****ese bullet & spade lug connectors melt out at 30 amps. Buy crimp terminals for battery from Ideal, T&B, Panduit, 3M, or Dorman.
BTW my motor is 1200 W, with throttle control I can make it as slow as I want. **** Massachusetts nannies, think every throttle user is a sidewalk racer. I'm trying to avoid the 2" wide 30' long ruts Indiana leaves between the pavement and the berm. The berm is 6" wide places, 2" occasionally.
 
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steve marino

Active Member
Glad my bike has some presets, along w/ a throttle. The throttle is infinitely more adjustable, you can set it to many, many different speeds. If you could put a throttle on yours, that might be the easiest and least expensive solution? Not sure, depends on your bike's controller.
 

CAGE RATTLER

New Member
CR, I found myself in the same spot, and learned to live with it. My wife can't keep up with her non ebike, like we planned, but I can still ride alone, or talk her into an ebike one day. I did find that if I start out with the battery at 80 percent vs a full charge, the speed/power up curve was lowered a bit, and my ride more enjoyable. Others here can give more details on actually fixing the issue.

Good luck.

Riding with my GF on a non ebike is the main reason this is a problem. But I solved that this past weekend when I found a LECTRIC XP on craigslist that I purchased for her to ride.
 

CAGE RATTLER

New Member
PAS 1 is too fast. This is a common complaint on most inexpensive hub motor ebikes and many ebike conversion kits. I agree with indiana-jo. Better controllers can be set to go slower. I had an ebikeling kit with a pretty LCD, but it would go 18 mph in PAS 1.

One of my bikes is an inexpensive Ecotric 20" fat tire bike ($700) . Originally 11-12 mph in PAS 1. I bought a different controller/LCD, $75. Now it's better and on cold days, I need PAS 2 to go 10 mph. I don't think there is any other solution although the Cycle analyst might work.

Cycle analyst converts your PAS signals to a throttle voltage, so your controller needs a throttle. And if it already had a display, now you have two. If you're OK with soldering, just change controllers,


What controller and display did you go with?

And my bike does have a sealed cadence sensor at the crank and also has a twist throttle.
 

CAGE RATTLER

New Member
Glad my bike has some presets, along w/ a throttle. The throttle is infinitely more adjustable, you can set it to many, many different speeds. If you could put a throttle on yours, that might be the easiest and least expensive solution? Not sure, depends on your bike's controller.


I do have a twist throttle and have used it to run slower but if I pedal while using it, the pas kicks in and raises the speed. Unfortunately if I use pas 0, that doesnt use power, the throttle also doesnt work. I could go into the settings and turn off pas and set it to throttle only but not sure i would like that. Its not that easy to maintain a low speed consistently with just the throttle. I do wish I could have throttle control when im at pas 0 but my display doesnt have that setting. The LECTRIC XP I just bought also doesnt have that vailable. It may have it in the settings but I think that setting is locked.
 

CAGE RATTLER

New Member
The CA display, and a compatible controller, is going to give you all kinds of control, no doubt. It may be a bit much though.

I would offer that the KT based controllers and displays have a pretty good reputation, are able to be configured pretty easily (especially when compared to a CA), and will give you all the control you're looking for when it comes to setting up your PAS.

Check out something like this:

Note that even though you already have most of the necessary accessories (like a PAS sensor or brake levers w/cut off for instance), this supplier offers them super cheap, and they'll have the correct ends on them, allowing you the choice between plug and play using their stuff, or matching your existing. There is no doubt you'll need to match the battery connector to controller (look into a pair of XT60 or XT90 connectors). That will leave you with just the motor connections to figure out. They can be a challenge, but most DIY'ers get through that step OK.

This supplier (pswpower) has been around a while, has a decent reputation, and I've used them several times. -Al


I watched some videos of the KT lcd3 & lcd8 displays and there is definitely more settings than I have now, but it doesnt look like there is a big difference. The main setting I saw that changes power to assist levels is just a 1-2-3 setting with default being 2 and 1 lowering power and 3 raising power. Am I wrong on those? Do you reccomend any particular KT displays or any other displays that may have more setting? I would love to find one that allows precise settings to each different assist level or something similar.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
I watched some videos of the KT lcd3 & lcd8 displays and there is definitely more settings than I have now, but it doesnt look like there is a big difference. The main setting I saw that changes power to assist levels is just a 1-2-3 setting with default being 2 and 1 lowering power and 3 raising power. Am I wrong on those? Do you reccomend any particular KT displays or any other displays that may have more setting? I would love to find one that allows precise settings to each different assist level or something similar.

I like the LCD3 as it's relatively small and does what I need it to do. Not into big flashy displays. In addition to the 3 power assist levels, there is C-3 I think, that lets you select if the PAS levels will be based on speed, or "imitation torque control" (watts). There's also the ability to limit max wattage going to the motor (C-5, 8 levels). Nice if you're running a big motor, and would like to limit the amount of power available to keep wide open power usage reasonable, or possibly mileage/economy reasons).

If you want the max amount of customization, the CA3 is going to be tough to beat. Little doubt there. My point was that it may be over the top, and would add the display is pretty big.
 

harryS

Well-Known Member
What controller and display did you go with?

And my bike does have a sealed cadence sensor at the crank and also has a twist throttle.

Controllers come in all sizes and current ratings. For a 750W motor, I would want a 25A KT controller, sine wave wave, with 9 drive transistors (MOSFETS). plus the LCD3 or LCD8 display. Something like the one in the middle. I found the bottom one too big to fit on my bikes. The top one is only 13A. Powers a shoebox OK if you have one.
 

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CAGE RATTLER

New Member
Thanks. Only thing I know about the controller I have is that it's 23 amp.

Is there any chance at all, that I could just swap my display for a kt and it would work?
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Very little. KT displays don't communicate well with anything but a KT controller, even after taking the time and trouble to match each wire's purpose exactly.