Pre-Builts with mid-drives comparable to a BBSHD

Bojjets

New Member
Since Luna Cycle doesn't offer any proper road bikes that are size medium, I was wondering what other pre-built bikes would be for sale that have the power of a BBSHD? The only ones I see available on their page is their Police bike, Gravity suspension, and a couple others; unfortunately none having medium size except their fat tires bikes.

I'd probably just get a proper 52v battery from Luna if I do go this route and purchase a bike not from them.
I would however love to get a bike from them, but they have ignored my request.
 

Chris Nolte

Well-Known Member
There aren't too many pre-built bikes that will have similar power as the BBSHD in the US considering that motor is technically not within the electric bicycle class as defined by the CPSC since it's above 750 watts.

That being said I think there are plenty of bikes out there with more than enough power and they're actually built to be ebikes. This is important as I think there are many corners that are cut with the Luna bikes/systems that aren't always easy to see with the untrained eye.

Can I ask what you're looking to do? Terrain, location, distance, etc. I know the BBSHD looks appealing ok the surface, but I would encourage you to look elsewhere if your needs can be met without it. We've worked with this system and many other after market systems and imo nothing compares to a purpose built bike.
 

Bojjets

New Member
I was planning on using it as an occasional commuter mostly. Total day use of around 20 miles at most probably.
I plan on using throttle-only for probably half the ride since I am handicapped a little.
I live in a somewhat hilly road area.
I did want it to get over 20mph if possible
I heard hydraulic brakes were good to have, but I know many low-end ebikes can't afford them.
and I didn't really want a fat bike, which is what most of Luna's bikes are unfortunately.

I'd like to get a <1.5$k bike, but if I have to get a nice bike can spend 2k$. I was planning on visiting my local bike shop that offers a few ebikes like the Crosscurrent and izip Dash.
I was also looking online at Radcity, Sondors thin, eglide ss.

i've even considered just getting a cheap ebike then having my local shop try to install a bbshd & battery upgrade separate on it.
 

flymeaway

Well-Known Member
i've even considered just getting a cheap ebike then having my local shop try to install a bbshd & battery upgrade separate on it.

If you can actually find someone who will do the conversion for you don't bother buying an "ebike", find the appropriate bike for your use and have them add the motor, battery and controls. Anyone who knows what they are doing can do a conversion in less then one day. Their liability is an issue, so finding someone to do the conversion will probably be the more difficult task.

Good luck.

Court J.
 

George S.

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure. The Luna Grit is a KHS 220, I think, and that is available in a Medium. They convert the large and Xlarge apparently. You could ask. Bigger frames have more room for components.

If you have 'normal' hills the BBSHD is overkill. It's an expensive motor, the bulletproof version of the original, but basically 1500 watts.

I can't recommend anything anymore. I'd go with a Luna pre-built over some factory bikes. You could get the parts for a good bike with something like the Mac motor, which handles most normal hills.

Luna is 'next door' to KHS. They can get the bikes. I would ask if they can build you a bike on the medium frame. Good luck.

If you test rode some hybrid electrics, you might decide you don't need a road bike. It's very rare to see a road bike configured as an ebike. You don't need the aerodynamic when you add the motor, so much
 

Thomas Jaszewski

Well-Known Member
I just don't see the BBS series as a great first commuter bike. George got me interested and the MAC coupled with the latest battery build technology from EM3 really has my interest peaked. I have every BBS wattage version made. I don't have the changes made in several versions and parts sorting in older models is a bit of a mess. I'm slowly converting my builds to geared hubs. Decent on hills, easy access to parts, the average rider won't have to worry about parts. OR if budget allows hook up with one of the very best, eBikes.ca . Their batteries are out of my range but I use their chargers, controllers and Cycle Analysts. BBSHD is clown pedaling for most and the lower wattage are sensitive to lugging the motors and need proper gear shifting to keep them running at higher RPM. More and more I ride my simple MXUS 1000W direct drive hub. Completely trouble free. But not a climber.
 

George S.

Well-Known Member
You don't get much on the Mxus if you casually Google it. Maybe Grin sells it? You get EM3ev if you Google the MAC. Some people have suggested a better distribution for the MAC, in the US, but nothing yet.

Mostly what you get if you just try a search engine approach are the $175 Ebay gearless 1000w motors with a controller of some sort, a bunch of little accessories, even a bag for the controller.

I had a Prodeco X3, which was fine for power. It had a DD with no obvious pedigree, and on a watt meter it ran 750 watts. Speed was tightly limited, but it would throw the watts at a hill.

They've done a good job selling the BBS stuff. I wonder how many people really need it?
 

Trail Cruiser

Well-Known Member
Coming from a background of cycling for fun and exercise (not commuting) and having both DD hub and BBSHD, I can say that the two give a normal bike-like feeling when it comes to a riders ability to fast cadence (simulating a non-ebike road cyclist workout). Both are capable of high speeds (30 mph). The DD wins on durability of the drive train. The BBSHD wins on the hills, good weight distribution, and on the "thrill and fun" factor (at least for me).

It is the same thrill I get when driving a sports car with a stick shift and trying to master smooth shifting between gears. That's exciting to me but may not be to somebody else. Different strokes for different folks.
 
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Thomas Jaszewski

Well-Known Member
You don't get much on the Mxus if you casually Google it. Maybe Grin sells it? You get EM3ev if you Google the MAC. Some people have suggested a better distribution for the MAC, in the US, but nothing yet.

Mostly what you get if you just try a search engine approach are the $175 Ebay gearless 1000w motors with a controller of some sort, a bunch of little accessories, even a bag for the controller.

I had a Prodeco X3, which was fine for power. It had a DD with no obvious pedigree, and on a watt meter it ran 750 watts. Speed was tightly limited, but it would throw the watts at a hill.

They've done a good job selling the BBS stuff. I wonder how many people really need it?
Maxis b flat.
They were sold by Cali eBikes when he did hub motors. Kinaye Motorsports now sells the latest versions. Mac will sell direct and there are some sources on ES Facebook if builders ask around. Paul is a good source. the best place to find specific products for builders is still ES dot com, apparently there's some reticence to post there.
 

flymeaway

Well-Known Member
They've done a good job selling the BBS stuff. I wonder how many people really need it?
Hands down the best system for commuting over hilly terrain. I've had The BBS series now for 4 years and the MAC 8T for 3 years and there's no comparison when you hit a long fairly steep grade, hands down BBS. On the flat they're equal. The enormous advantage for the mid-drive is the ability to use an IGH. I've converted all my BBS....except the Tandem to Rohloff IGH's (my 1st conversion BBS 500W 36V I put on the Nuvinci 360) and I would never go back to a rear cassette....guess I'm spoiled, but the difference in shift quality and gearing is amazing.

Commuting is certainly different then a nice weekend outing, particularly if you have a distance to go with hills. When I commute I want the bike to perform hills or flats, be reasonably fast and reliable, so it's the Titanium conversion.......1st for commuting.

Court J
 

George S.

Well-Known Member
Maxis b flat.
They were sold by Cali eBikes when he did hub motors. Kinaye Motorsports now sells the latest versions. Mac will sell direct and there are some sources on ES Facebook if builders ask around. Paul is a good source. the best place to find specific products for builders is still ES dot com, apparently there's some reticence to post there.

Tom,

It seems like one of the ways that people buy stuff is to 1) Google it 2) go to Ebay 3) go to Amazon. Not necessarily in that order. The MAC shows up on Google with EM3ev. The only gripe there is that you have to have it shipped from Asia.

The most accessible hub motor is the Golden. You can get them from Canada, Gary Salo, or Luna, Eric Hicks. I bought a couple of Golden Motors because they were readily available, especially from California.

The Golden has the controller built in, and it is made narrow for disk brake access. It also comes with a dual brake rim. They are heavy. The Magic Pie seems to perform like the MAC on hills, but it weighs 20 pounds. The lighter Smart Pie is OK on hills, but bogs down more quickly.

There are the cheap hubs, Bafang geared, that show up in many assembled bikes from China where the manufacturer is almost an importer of a bike they ordered or had made. These hubs are hard to find just as a DIY motor. Luna has a version, but it's not a very well-developed line for them. I think Grin has one. You can buy them from Chinese vendors, some of whom have been around a while.

Kinaye has been selling the MXUS 3000 watt version for a while, but they are a performance vendor which puts them somewhat apart. Performance costs more. People can certainly find stuff on ES and get advice. The very small vendors probably don't have much of a presence other than ES.

Meanwhile, the vendors of basic (cheap) DD motors on Ebay show auctions with packages and numbers like "45 sold, 15 left". They seem to be generating the volume. You get the same motors on Amazon, more or less. Battery packs are showing up on Amazon.

The two big DIY vendors are definitely putting the emphasis on their factory or in house assembled kit bikes. Lectric has the very well received Smart Motion Line and the lower end Haibike line, plus some bikes they build. Luna has models they build. They say it takes 4 hours to build a bike, in house. This is not a bad deal, paying for that labor, getting a bike that is set up reasonably well. In a video Luna talks about some specific problems with the HD. It's not that simple to go DIY with something like an HD.

In another video Eric talks about being thrown off ES. The politics on ES are pretentious. It's not an outfit most people care about.

The only area of DIY that appeals to me is the basic hub. If I wanted an HD, I would have Luna build it. But the Smart Motion and the Haibike lines have a more refined product. It's tough to say, and the HD gets into the $2's, assembled. I wish there were comparative reviews, Haibike versus a Luna build.

Court - I think that level of build is mostly going to be something you would get in an assembled bike, like what Luna is doing. The price is OK, it's a premium product, so you pay. The bike might last a very long time. Consumers are chasing different things. DIY works at the low end for me. The Mac is fine on my 7-8 % grades, but better with about 1100 watts. They are taking that away with the Cal regs.

Here's the big problem:
 

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Thomas Jaszewski

Well-Known Member
Couple of things. If a DIY person isn't willing to buy from China then e choices are limited. High shipping? Yes but the overall price is still fair. I have enough of the cheap batteries for a lifetime. I'm no longer willing to complain about prices and support lower quality.

There are two ES venues. On FB, 4000 of us find it useful. I suggested it as a good place to get information. The FB version and dot com versions are quite different. Anyone on FB can have discussions with some very nice helpful folks, out from behind a nom de plume.

Please let's not drag this onto this nice friendly forum. There's enough derision there for everyone.

I find all that I want and need and only offered to help do the same for anyone else, but you seem to have your mind settled so there really isn't much to discuss.

Bafang is all over the EU but not the HD. I'm sure they'd love to be in the OEM market. But they are not. I felt let down by the OEM market when I couldn't find a flat foot frame that fit me with any assist, 3 years ago. So I built my first BBSxx. 350w and still riding two almost daily in summer. I did some support for the BBSHD and bought a couple. They are more motor than I need or want to maintain. I'll be buying my macs from EM3. If I decide on another Mxus, I'll do what I suggested and give Kinaye a shout and see if he can supply. Just because something isn't listed doesn't make it unavailable. I get lots of things by asking and maintaining contacts. And some of them are into more eBike than I'll ever want to own or safely ride. But they willsource motors. I only buy tools and supplies from Amazon and eBay. I do buy a lot on Aliexpress. Getting to know who is easy. Again I use ES FB and the experience of others to learn. That's the DIY world. Willingness to use all available resource is integral.

Enjoy the ride!

PS The modeular battery parts came. I'm quite pleased. I'm ordering more.