Proposal: Removing the Deals Section of EBR Community

Court

Administrator
Staff member
Hi guys! For the past six months I've watched the Deals section here closely and noticed that the by-owner deals don't get many responses and are often left open indefinitely with unresolved sales. I've spoken with a few of these individuals and discovered that they have ended up using Craigslist more successfully.

On the flip side, I've seen shops advertise moving sales, end of season clearance and demo models that attract some attention but are usually most relevant to a specific region of the country and often violate manufacturer suggested pricing (MSRP) which causes issues for other shops and can make brands feel uncomfortable. This is especially challenging for me to deal with because I want to be fair to all shops and am not as well versed in pricing terms and exceptions.

For these reasons I'm considering removing the Deals section and just wanted to open up for feedback before moving forward. One semi-related topic I've had some issues with promotions in brand specific forums and advertisement laden signatures recently. I've told individuals that color, size and link formatting is not allowed. Signatures here are meant to say who you are and possibly who you work for to promote transparency ie. Larry Pizzi President of Currie Technologies. When a signature says "BIG SALE HERE TODAY LINK..." that can be distracting and harm the collaborative spirit this space is meant to engender. I believe the same is true for promotions within branded forums and these will be cleaned up in the coming days.

I really appreciate the energy and excitement for ebikes that is being shared here and realize that I have not laid out specific rules for the Deals section (or others). I've enjoyed seeing how this space evolves and am hoping that these minor adjustments will keep it clean, productive and open ongoing. Open to your thoughts!

Sincerely,
Court
 

Kaldeem

Active Member
Sounds fair enough; I haven't seen a lot of accurate info in the 'Deals' sections since I've joined. I'm not sure of what direction you are thinking of going with the site as a whole, but since you asked for opinions... what if you changed the 'Deals' forum to a thread, in another forum like the general section. I mean it makes sense to me, a pinned thread is easier to maintain and watch. You can have a little blurb about the rules of posting deals or w/e you'd like to say in the first post and afterwards the community and or dealers can post their sales with links on that thread. As the thread grows and sales/deals expire, you can simply delete them so the thread doesn't get too long or confusing.

Just my 2 cents. Have a good day and keep up this awesome site!!
 

DashRiprock

Active Member
On the flip side, I've seen shops advertise moving sales, end of season clearance and demo models that attract some attention but are usually most relevant to a specific region of the country and often violate manufacturer suggested pricing (MSRP) which causes issues for other shops and can make brands feel uncomfortable. This is especially challenging for me to deal with because I want to be fair to all shops and am not as well versed in pricing terms and exceptions...For these reasons I'm considering removing the Deals section...

I would be a lot more receptive to backing the manufacturers/distributors and "minimum ADVERTISED pricing"("MAP" if in fact there is one vs MSRP) if they were ALL (or even more than one or two) up here day in and day out supporting us.
Instead, forums such as this have in fact been doing all the heavy lifting for the vast majority of these manufacturers/distributors in a very immature market where they again indeed need us to keep the conversations and sales flowing in a VERY depressed economic climate.
Take access to public (non-motorized) bicycle trails or MTB trails..
Why in the heck should I give a rip if a distributor is getting their lunch handed to them by another or a manufacturer wants everybody to (over) pay just as much as possible to strengthen their sales network...if I can't even get an 'amen' from the powers that be in the ebike hierarchy when I go toe to toe locally with those denying me my right to ride? Doesn't that fact tell 'me' that those bringing me my ebike...care one heck of a lot more about their own pocketbooks/industry relationships or crushing those seeking to give us the best deals possible...than obviously what we 'peons' have to relate up here regarding OUR challenges?

Again, I get the pressure these guys are putting on you and why they do it.

What I suggest members do is simply switch over to the private message system and make these same people realize who actually pays their bills if the above is truly the way that they (obviously) feel about us.

I'll even take it a step further and claim the following:
If you're not buying your bike from Len...you're paying waaaaay too much! ;)
 
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Court

Administrator
Staff member
Great idea @Kaldeem and thanks for the support! I've been a little behind with reviews lately (working on some new site improvements) but glad the Community is thriving and I appreciate your input.

Thanks for your input too @DashRiprock! I wanted to visit Len during my last roadtrip but had to cut it short towards the end in order to make time for the New York Senate visit to try to get some positive press for ebike legalization.

I love that these shops are chiming in, helping people connect with ebikes and also building a positive reputation for their businesses. I believe in the local shop relationship because maintenance and warranty is so important with complex devices that cost so much. The manufacturers mean well and I know the shops do too. Everyone has to earn money in order to offer a product and I get that. I'm constantly grappled with my own role in the ecosystem, trying to build a safe supportive community with limited ads (and only from companies I know and trust). While that does create a bias it also allows me to do more reviews and answer YouTube comments. You, the visitors are my product, I don't sell anything here besides exposure and I take that very seriously. There are no paid articles or sponsored opinions here. I try very hard to be transparent about how things work and take feedback seriously so thanks again for sharing yours and for focusing on the positive aspects of the space, most importantly the bikes and how people use them :)
 

Vern

Active Member
One of the things that I love most about this site is that it is geared toward providing information, generating interest in the ebike market, and serves as a enthusiasts discussion forum. I also like that I am not bombarded with ads or people trying to sell me something. I personally think that you should remove the section and encourage people to IM each other about deals, places to buy, for sale... This is your child Court, if you don't like the direction she is going make her get back in the house, but on some respectable clothes, and make you proud.
 

opimax

Well-Known Member
I am wondering if this site enforcing MAP is good or bad. While I love a deal even more than the next person :) some prices listed on some demos are unbelievable does it hurt shops that are smaller ? Om the other hand some people won't be ebiking w/o these deals. I know I want the opportunity to get that great deal although I probably am a local purchase person due service expectations

I think that ads of any kind should not show up under threads for any of the brands but in separate area of sales only which I must make an effort to search out

Mark
 
D

Deleted member 803

Guest
Court:

Most forums I use have dealer or for sale sections. The dealer section is the ONLY place a dealer can post. I find it somewhat off-putting that dealers are allowed to hock their wares at any time almost under any post. I'd prefer that we remove the selling completely from the user forums and restrict it to the above dealer or for sale section.
 

DashRiprock

Active Member
I'd prefer that we remove the selling completely from the user forums and restrict it to the above dealer or for sale section.
I have no problem with the above also yet feel that they are after Court to remove any dealer or sale (save 'used') section from his site completely to make certain that we all pay full MSRP from everybody...everywhere.
Us 'older' folk have had the advantage our entire lives picking up products for the best price possible from 'go getters' such as Len and saved A LOT of money doing so.
I see no reason that younger people shouldn't be blessed with the same opportunity in the markets of today where manufacturers and large corporations are continually seeking to saddle them with everything but true choice in their buying decisions.
Then again, I'm all for anybody who makes a run at those seeking to keep any of our freedoms at bay. ;)
 

JoePah

Well-Known Member
Hi guys! For the past six months I've watched the Deals section here closely and noticed that the by-owner deals don't get many responses and are often left open indefinitely with unresolved sales. I've spoken with a few of these individuals and discovered that they have ended up using Craigslist more successfully.

On the flip side, I've seen shops advertise moving sales, end of season clearance and demo models that attract some attention but are usually most relevant to a specific region of the country and often violate manufacturer suggested pricing (MSRP) which causes issues for other shops and can make brands feel uncomfortable. This is especially challenging for me to deal with because I want to be fair to all shops and am not as well versed in pricing terms and exceptions.

For these reasons I'm considering removing the Deals section and just wanted to open up for feedback before moving forward. One semi-related topic I've had some issues with promotions in brand specific forums and advertisement laden signatures recently. I've told individuals that color, size and link formatting is not allowed. Signatures here are meant to say who you are and possibly who you work for to promote transparency ie. Larry Pizzi President of Currie Technologies. When a signature says "BIG SALE HERE TODAY LINK..." that can be distracting and harm the collaborative spirit this space is meant to engender. I believe the same is true for promotions within branded forums and these will be cleaned up in the coming days.

I really appreciate the energy and excitement for ebikes that is being shared here and realize that I have not laid out specific rules for the Deals section (or others). I've enjoyed seeing how this space evolves and am hoping that these minor adjustments will keep it clean, productive and open ongoing. Open to your thoughts!

Sincerely,
Court

Hi Court, I'm not sure if youre facing any marketing issues from manufacturers.. I would like to see a general FOR SALE section that ANYONE can post about ANY EBike related goods for sale.

As you may or may not know I am huge supporter of LBS, and have found that the best Ebike deals are the ones closest to me.. Still don't see a problem with bike shops selling their used or demo bikes on line...
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Interesting move, Court.
I concur with Dash and Joe here.
  1. Manufacturers and shops feeling uncomfortable:

    Some of the shops that have closed down for good: Pete's electric bike in CO, Eco-bikes in MD, Cycle Life USA in DC. [These are examples of not reading the market pulse properly]

    This is a VERY IMMATURE market and pricing is WAY out of reality.
    Most dealers knowledge about E-bikes is skin deep and they are in it for the huge margins and of course it is not sustainable. Unfortunately, in this capitalistic market, US customer will bear the brunt of it.

  2. Falco's Kickstarter din't make it. Optibike wasn't there at the Interbike and I'm not sure how well they are doing with so very few dealers. Prodeco is shooting themselves in the foot and I know many many dealers dropping them off Prodeco from their list.

  3. Currie changed their pricing on Xduro Super Race from $8000 to $6800, Easy Motion did the same with Neo Volt --> $2699 to $1699, OHM XS 750 changed from $4299 to $3299. Most of the companies price their product based on whim or GREED rather than value pricing or cost leadership based pricing. I see Currie's executive showing contempt on your Stromer ST2 (cost) post on Facebook and yet is he is the same who makes decision on Xduro Super Race's pricing ($8000).

  4. In a capitalistic market, one man's gain is another's loss. One who knows how to use analytics will always have a head start against some other shops (smaller LBS) and they just can't compete with some shops who use google/facebook ads. You can call it job skill or shrewdness but once you bring certain online tools to the platform, things will never be fair between shops or manufacturers.
    There are always shops who don't do google or facebook ads or don't know how to catch the customer. I know many shops who feel very nagative about Long Island eBikes or Crazy lennys for snatching away their business. I have spoken to those store owners and I know it.
So, shops and manufacturers will always feel uncomfortable and I can quote innumerable examples of pure cunning from these companies.

BUT your site has been awesome catalyst in many of the positive changes. It has helped many many customers to make wise decisions and get great deals. It has brought some sense to senile executives and outdated shops/owners back to reality. Most importantly, common man can sit in his house and look at the all great products coming to the market on your channel and read all the good info here.

You shouldn't lose your spot in their good books or their sponsorship. They may be hypocritical but they are HUGE part of the market and we need to acknowledge their uncomfortable-ness. I think it is wise to close it down.

BUT Keep up the awesomeness.

:) Cheers
 
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MarcD

Active Member
Without knowing any discussions you may have had on the topic with manufacturers or dealers, it is hard to know what balance to strike, but I can offer a user-opinion.

I feel like a dedicated place, like 86 mentioned is is fine with me. If dealers violate their agreements with distributors, that is the dealer's problem to some degree. As for spamming the site up, I haven't seen a ton of it, but limiting it to a dedicated place is a reasonable solution. If people aren't interested in the deals, don't read the sub-forum.

Ultimately, there are people like JoePah and myself, that feel like a relationship with a dealer is far superior than $100 off. I had some great discussions with Chris from LIEB this week, for example. Others may value the discount and want the best price. To each his or her own.

I guess to make a long post short: it is pretty easy to NOT read a section of the forum if it bothers you.
 

Gus

Active Member
I used to own CD store that made a pretty nice yearly profit. Then Best Buy & Wal-Mart starting selling all new releases for $9.99. They would actually take a loss on some CDs just to get consumers in the store. Did I write Best Buy & Wal-Mart crying to them to stop selling their CDs @ $9.99 because I can't compete? No, I had to adapt. I had to either start selling the same CDs @ $9.99 or I would lose the business. It's that simple. Businesses compete with each other and need to do whatever is necessary to attract customers from the next guy. If somebody is doing something that is eating up all the business, they obviously are doing something right. The other businesses should spend less time whining and start to analyze what the other guy is doing and try to beat them at their own game.

Trying to stymie competitive pricing on a product that is already way too expensive is bad for everyone. Sure the bike shops will make a nice profit on 1 or 2 sales but there will be no volume because it's too expensive for most consumers. Then they will stop selling them because the business dried up because the only 2 people that could afford them in their town already one. Sell it cheaper, get more volume in sales, and make your money in service repairs or accessories. You love your eBike but want longer range? Sure, I'll sell you this battery @ $500 profit.

At least where I live (midwest), eBikes still have a negative perception. People view them as cheating or are only for fat lazy people. They are expensive toys that have no purpose in the bikes shops. The few bike shops that do carry eBikes have them in the back (or like Kozy's hidden on the top floor). When I ask about them at the store, the response is usually something like "Yeah, we got them but wouldn't you rather spend $4k on this nice Trek Madone?" So, eBikes in the US are tough nut to crack. You need to lure in customers with how they could be used, get them to ride them, offer them at a competitive price, then they'll buy them and tell their roadie spandex mafia friends how great eBikes are. This eBike thing still needs to take off in the US and has a long way to go. Get the fire going first, at that point the businesses can argue about who will make the $2,000 profit on the next eBike.

In summary: My vote is to keep the deals forum open. If there was even one sale generated from this forum section, it is worth keeping open.
 
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D

Deleted member 803

Guest
Lots of opinions but it seems that keeping a dealer or For Sale section would be looked upon favorably by most. The one feature that you should not touch is the "ignore" feature. It allows me to ignore comments from those who use forums for political, religious, and zealot purposes. Unfortunately there are a few in every community. Continued success.....
 
D

Deleted member 803

Guest
Interesting move, Court.
I concur with Dash and Joe here.
  1. Manufacturers and shops feeling uncomfortable:

    Some of the shops that have closed down for good: Pete's electric bike in CO, Eco-bikes in MD, Cycle Life USA in DC. [These are examples of not reading the market pulse properly]

    This is a VERY IMMATURE market and pricing is WAY out of reality.
    Most dealers knowledge about E-bikes is skin deep and they are in it for the huge margins and of course it is not sustainable. Unfortunately, in this capitalistic market, US customer will bear the brunt of it.

  2. Falco's Kickstarter din't make it. Optibike wasn't there at the Interbike and I'm not sure how well they are doing with so very few dealers. Prodeco is shooting themselves in the foot and I know many many dealers dropping them off Prodeco from their list.

  3. Currie changed their pricing on Xduro Super Race from $8000 to $6800, Easy Motion did the same with Neo Volt --> $2699 to $1699, OHM XS 750 changed from $4299 to $3299. Most of the companies price their product based on whim or GREED rather than value pricing or cost leadership based pricing. I see Currie's executive showing contempt on your Stromer ST2 (cost) post on Facebook and yet is he is the same who makes decision on Xduro Super Race's pricing ($8000).

  4. In a capitalistic market, one man's gain is another's loss. One who knows how to use analytics will always have a head start against some other shops (smaller LBS) and they just can't compete with some shops who use google/facebook ads. You can call it job skill or shrewdness but once you bring certain online tools to the platform, things will never be fair between shops or manufacturers.
    There are always shops who don't do google or facebook ads or don't know how to catch the customer. I know many shops who feel very nagative about Long Island eBikes or Crazy lennys for snatching away their business. I have spoken to those store owners and I know it.
So, shops and manufacturers will always feel uncomfortable and I can quote innumerable examples of pure cunning from these companies.

BUT your site has been awesome catalyst in many of the positive changes. It has helped many many customers to make wise decisions and get great deals. It has brought some sense to senile executives and outdated shops/owners back to reality. Most importantly, common man can sit in his house and look at the all great products coming to the market on your channel and read all the good info here.

You shouldn't lose your spot in their good books or their sponsorship. They may be hypocritical but they are HUGE part of the market and we need to acknowledge their uncomfortable-ness. I think it is wise to close it down.

BUT Keep up the awesomeness.

:) Cheers
I disagree with you on pricing. Pricing is a function of cost, profit, and market acceptance. All three factors fluctuate as markets mature or more competition enters. The assumption that early adopters are price sensitive at large is simply not true. Pricing is typically never at the top of purchase consideration unless brand has no value and distribution is universal. Unfortunately most small IBD/EBD's are not shrewd business people but enthusiasts. They typically enter/run a business without sufficient cash reserves. This is especially true in nascent markets. The retail bike industry has been undergoing continued shrinkage in store fronts as the bike market in the US has seen no growth for over a decade. Given that e-bike average cost to the dealer is 3X a standard bike and that the percentage of people who visit a bike shop for an e-bike is probably less than 3-5%, e-bikes remain a risky business. I know of no traditional dealer who is excited about e-bike growth as a significant contributor to their bottom line. The only dealers who seem to be getting by are EBD's. I don't blame dealers for doing ANYTHING they can to move product.
 

DashRiprock

Active Member
I disagree with you on pricing. Pricing is a function of cost, profit, and market acceptance. All three factors fluctuate as markets mature or more competition enters. The assumption that early adopters are price sensitive at large is simply not true. Pricing is typically never at the top of purchase consideration unless brand has no value and distribution is universal. Unfortunately most small IBD/EBD's are not shrewd business people but enthusiasts. They typically enter/run a business without sufficient cash reserves. This is especially true in nascent markets. The retail bike industry has been undergoing continued shrinkage in store fronts as the bike market in the US has seen no growth for over a decade. Given that e-bike average cost to the dealer is 3X a standard bike and that the percentage of people who visit a bike shop for an e-bike is probably less than 3-5%, e-bikes remain a risky business. I know of no traditional dealer who is excited about e-bike growth as a significant contributor to their bottom line. The only dealers who seem to be getting by are EBD's. I don't blame dealers for doing ANYTHING they can to move product.

Couldn't disagree more.
I would classify bicycle owners and even potential owners (ebikes incl.) as one of the most price sensitive group of consumers in the American market today.
I would also challenge the 'old school' narrative of evaluating markets in a global economy.
Court is feeling this pressure due to the exact opposite of what you offer above.
We know where these bikes can be had for much less with even acceptable service included straight from the manufacturer...and (I speculate that) Court is being told that this is a 'new school' market narrative that needs to be crushed in the cradle...fast.

I bought my groundbreaking Currie bicycles on price, service and the good people of this board's generosity.
If that notion doesn't fit into a far left progressive college course syllabus...then I think that the world might just be a changin'...faster. :)
 

Court

Administrator
Staff member
Hey guys! I've read every comment here and really appreciate the time and energy you've spent sharing. That's what makes this a great space and why I enjoy checking in so much... Over the past several days I've spoken with @Chris Nolte from Long Island Electric Bikes, @Chandlee EBS from Certified Electric Bike Specialists, @Larry Pizzi from Currie Technologies and Len, Mark and Henry from @Crazy Lenny Ebikes. I really value open communication and transparency so here's what I heard...

Nobody wants to see a race to the bottom regarding price because if shops and manufacturers cannot make a profit they will leave the space and that means that even great ebikes will be left without support and users will have nowhere to take test rides. On the flip side, nobody wants to screw customers and almost every local electric bike shop I've spoken with has some sort of promotional tool or incentive to land sales. The big challenge to an online space like this forum is that every sale gets compounded and in some cases MAP (minimum advertised price) gets violated publicly which can get a shop in trouble and set a dangerous precedent. @Gus mentioned that his CD store had to "adapt" to Best Buy and Walmart (not sure it if survived?) and now we see Amazon challenging Best Buy and others... We see Tesla challenging the way cars are sold and people completely abandoning cars for electric bicycles! Oh what a world ;) I've worked for several "disruptive" companies myself including Google and what I've noticed is that a balance of rule following combined with efficient distribution, communication, support, customization etc. can be a win for everyone. Maybe Apple has its own stores but they also have kiosks in Best Buy because people want to touch and try their devices. Maybe people are comfortable buying shoes from Zappos but they still comply with MAP and shoes don't require the kind of ongoing maintenance that an electric bike does. I think this is why Tesla has storefronts and why having physical dealers in the bicycle space (electric or otherwise) is so important, even more important than a few more ultra-low sales. Let the people who want to spend less on electric bikes buy a perfectly good eZip Trailz for $600 or convert a garage sale bike for $400 with a Hill Topper. I think it's bullshit when someone says "people can't afford ebikes" they just want a fancier bike without paying for it. Anyway, here's an interesting read from a site that sometimes sells below MAP but does it in a way that doesn't break the rules or spam users. Furthermore, if someone wants to violate MAP on their own site that's fine with me but it may ruin their manufacturer relationship. I am not okay with it happening here "just because this is a forum" and more open source. I offer a lot of freedom here but that comes with a responsibility to behave. I take pride in the quality of this space and even though I do not buy from manufactures, I realize that without them I would lose sponsorships (which let me do reviews and host this forum) and we would all lose choice and innovation which takes investment cultivated through profit. Profit is not evil but lying to old ladies about car troubles so they will pay more is... unless you offer to sell them an ebike, or maybe an e-trike?

Maybe it makes sense for a last season demo model to sell for less and perhaps it's okay to offer a slight discount to members of AAA or to Veterans or Seniors etc. and perhaps sweetening the deal with a free bag, ongoing tuneups or some lights is okay but it should be done in a professional and socially acceptable way. In our context that means keeping ads to a specific area of this forum and using social common sense to avoid "overdoing it" with loud fonts, excessive posting etc. In fact, I think most of it should be private. Stuff that is public should be about how cool the new bikes are, how they just got some in and how they are having a demo event that people can actually attend like the Beaverdam Blitz that Chandlee put on.

My hope is that someday this Deals section, or perhaps an updated name changed "For Sale" section, will serve as a place for ebike owners to sell their old gear and part-out broken bikes so that we can keep more ebikes going. Shipping a motor, display panel or controller across the country makes a lot of sense and could really help someone but most working used ebikes will probably still sell on Craigslist because they're so large and expensive to ship. In today's market there are shops that can sell online successfully because independent electric bike dealers are few and far between in rural areas and there are some brands like Grace that have not saturated many dealers. If someone like Chris, Chandlee or Len spend their time on this forum helping people to learn about ebikes and in the process make a few sales (and communicate their prices appropriately and privately) then we can avoid the MAP issue and everyone can win. More bikes sold, less spam, no race to the bottom.

I don't want this space to turn into a junk show, I also want to avoid ruffling feathers or harming potential full price deals from going through for people who are willing to pay the extra bucks. That money is not wasted at all in my view if it keeps a shop afloat, pays the salaries of bike mechanics, covers insurance and builds equity for next gen models. The very first electric bike I purchased was at full MSRP and I did that to support my local shop Rocket Electrics in Austin Texas as I appreciated the time and service they were providing. I sacrificed some savings to build a relationship and an industry I believe in and I do not regret that at all. This is a business and profit stimulates growth. So to be clear, I brought this entire topic up not because manufacturers or dealers prompted it but because I could sense some uneasiness. Again, I'm currently making no money from this forum and my hope is that it gives actual owners a safe space to voice their true experiences with ebikes and to share their acquired expertise. As you know, my reviews are limited, I don't own the bikes I film... you guys do, and that brings so much value to other people. Pay it fucking forward bro! ...and sis (that's the unofficial slogan of the EBR Forum).

So here's my proposal. What if I rename this section "For Sale" (which tones down the competitive "Deals" language) and post a basic "guidelines" thread at the top that requests that current model year bikes not be posted below MAP and that the space is meant primarily for end users to sell used components etc. Dealers can still interact directly with users and make whatever deals they feel comfortable with privately but they may not spam users and if I receive multiple complaints, a dealer will be suspended from posting here or visiting the forums all together if necessary. I could actually use your help drafting the "rules" section since this is your space... In addition to the rules, you can flag people as spam and I will follow up and you can certainly use the "ignore" feature as @86 and still kicking pointed out but ideally people won't be so tacky that it's required. Here's an example of what I think a good shop interaction looks like on EBR and it didn't even happen in the Deals section! Specific dollar figures were not mentioned and there wasn't even a "we offer prices even lower than Walmart!!1" tagline attached... This was helpful, genuine and likely attracted business inquiries then and now.
 
D

Deleted member 803

Guest
Court: The example you use is definitely a sales pitch even though there are parts of reply that provide salient information. I, and, I assume that most community members, can live with this self promotion. I would however suggest that dealers are not allowed to push product, or suggest "call me" or "visit me", unless it is in the dealer or for sale section. I have no objection to a dealer section that allows you and dealers to provide a listing of retail shops that carry specific brands. This would be helpful to those who are in the process of shopping.

I mention this as I was on a forum for shaving, yes shaving, where I expressed my preference for one shave brush brand vs. another. The vendor (whose product I did not prefer) called the administrators of the forum and insisted that I be banned or they would pull their advertising. Long story short, I was banned. I know dealers are struggling to build an e-bike business but most of us would be greatly appreciative if you placed the community above the dealers or the vendors. Again, I realize this is tough to do as you depend upon advertising support from many vendors.

You have my full support in navigating a secular non-partisan approach.
 

Vern

Active Member
Court,
I agree with everything that you have stated above. If I had more time on my hand I would have said the same thing.
 

Clark

Member
Court,
After reading all of the heady discussions above, I only come away with
one question: What's the OFFICIAL slogan of EBR? Can you say EBR user
poll?

Clark
 
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Court

Administrator
Staff member
Great question @Clark... that could make for an awesome poll, maybe we could have proposals and then a poll to sort through them? Did you have a contribution?!

How about something like: EBR - Using the Same Three Letters as Several Other Electric Bike Sites! (shout out to ElectricBikeReport.com and EbikeReviews.com.au)