RadRover - $1000 Fat eBike .. why spend any more than this?

PowerMe

Well-Known Member
I think you need to take into account that these crowdfunding eBikes are a fairly new thing. What was available a year ago or 6 months ago? People purchasing eBikes are not necessarily going to KS or IGG to go eBike shopping. New possibilities are opening up, but there is still the issue that any consumer will have to face in terms of warranty work, support, and other issues that go along with purchasing a CF product. Will a "company" be around in a year or 2 if service is needed? What if one of the parts fails, will there be parts replacements available and stocked by the "company?"
 

Brambor

Well-Known Member
First of all, you don't ride a fat bike on a paved road. The tire noise and self steering is a ridiculous experience.

It's like killing a fly with a hammer. Anyone buying this is probably on a fat bike hype bandwagon and haven't given it enough practical thought.

That means a buyer of this type won't use this toy much and therefore wasting $500-$1000 is actually better than wasting more.
 
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JRA

Well-Known Member
Having ridden fat bikes I have to agree with Brambor. They work ok off road but are a pig on the street. Especially the self steering aspect.

Nobody seems to think that cargo bikes are cool but to me they offer the best e bike solution for the problem that is at hand. Getting people to use an e bike instead of their car! All the components on the bike above could be transferred easily to a cargo style bike with narrower 2" tires and the cost should be close to the same.
 

pxpaulx

Well-Known Member
Having ridden fat bikes I have to agree with Brambor. They work ok off road but are a pig on the street. Especially the self steering aspect.

Nobody seems to think that cargo bikes are cool but to me they offer the best e bike solution for the problem that is at hand. Getting people to use an e bike instead of their car! All the components on the bike above could be transferred easily to a cargo style bike with narrower 2" tires and the cost should be close to the same.

fat tire self Steer is 95 percent tire dependent. Vee mission or vee 8 tires on the bike you rode? Just this side of dangerous self steer! I swapped my vee 8 tires for a set of husker du tires on my fat bike and the difference was night and day, self steer all but disappeared.

I do wish they skipped the fork, pretty much not needed with the float of the fat tires.

With the specs what they are, I am strongly considering this bike. Had been wanting to electrify my current fat bike but it is so much fun to ride as is, the possibility of having both for almost the same cost is very tempting!
 

George S.

Well-Known Member
fat tire self Steer is 95 percent tire dependent. Vee mission or vee 8 tires on the bike you rode? Just this side of dangerous self steer! I swapped my vee 8 tires for a set of husker du tires on my fat bike and the difference was night and day, self steer all but disappeared.

I do wish they skipped the fork, pretty much not needed with the float of the fat tires.

With the specs what they are, I am strongly considering this bike. Had been wanting to electrify my current fat bike but it is so much fun to ride as is, the possibility of having both for almost the same cost is very tempting!
I like the Samsung cells, which are what EM3ev uses in his packs. Over on Lectric Cycles, the AllCell equivalent in a 48v is $800. They don't include a case. Or a bike.

You could argue it 'needs' a mid-drive, but the 750w geared motor and 48v battery should handle most terrain, with no shifting issues. Lower cost, better user experience for total noobs. Should a total noob start with this bike?

The $500 bikes have not included gears, which really cripples the usefulness. The wattmeter is a nice touch. These guys seem to know what an ebiker really needs. (Probably not a cheap front suspension, though. That's getting to be a gimmick.)

There are some real extreme positions on fat bikes. I've never ridden one. I might have bought the Storm if it had not been a CF, and if the shipping wasn't a 40% add on, just as a demo for the concept. I used to think you had to go mid-drive, but I wonder what Bafang will have at the end of this year.

These guys seem to have reputations with ebikes. They offer a warranty. They will deliver locally, which means they are not playing hide and seek with customs. Any critic of Sondo can say this is what it (a Chinese import) should be, more or less. It's still a CF, the basic risks of CF, but with more money on the line.
 

JRA

Well-Known Member
Glad you found a tire that works for you pxpaulx. Fat bikes are all the rage but the reality is that they are not that efficient on the road which is the point that I was trying to make and where the self steering issue is the most noticeable due to the large contact patch of the tire reacting to a hard surface such as pavement, especially at the lower pressures that making riding them off road work as well as they do. Rolling resistance and aerodynamics, and if you have ever ridden a fat bike in to a stiff headwind you will know what I mean, also come in to play. Sure you can put in more psi for use on the road but it still isn't as efficient as a narrower 2 inch tire. So it is up to the end user to decide what their main use will be, but it seems like so far most are being attracted to the form, rather than the function.

Pointing once again to the popularity of e bikes in the EU it is based on the development of their use as personal transport first and foremost. The e mtb market has grown out of that surely but not without the other aspect being firmly entrenched.

As far as the RadRover goes their campaign offers more than the Storm in as far as at least they seem to know what it takes to spec a bike that will be useful. Hopefully they exceed their goal and produce their product and make enough of a profit that they can continue forward with their success.
 

pxpaulx

Well-Known Member
Well, i have been enjoying my fat bike because it is fun and comfortable to ride. i loved my easy motion neo xtrem...until i got my fat bike!

I had the intention of building up my fat bike as electric, but enjoy it so much as it is that i have been giving serious thought to selling the neo xtrem and building a separate fat electric. thing is, options are limited, and not cheap. building a full kit from em3ev with their new fat axle is close to $1200 on its own, and specs would be almost identical to this new offering....only here i am getting the entire complete kit and dont need to worry about building the wheel (myself or at added cost) on top of picking out all the required parts.

Unlike the sondors bike, this bike is spec'd the way a fat bike should be (short of a mid drive, and a 9 or 10 speed would be preferable too). the battery size and motor in particular should be much better suited. i agree the fork is maybe the only bad choice here, only because i find the fat ride that much more comfortable without a fork than my neo xtrem for example. should be able to buy a replacement fork from bikes direct for $100 to $200 (talking about their new carbom fork...).

i am still mulling it over myself, but this bike is looking like a reasonably priced solid option, for me anyway!
 

pxpaulx

Well-Known Member
I could only hold out so long. They have technically already met their goal with 41 bikes sold mostly under the half now, half later payment options (all of which get you the bike for $999 plus shipping).

In the end I am getting a complete bike for about $50 more than it would have cost me to convert my current fat bike (which I love riding as is) from em3ev (with the same battery and cells), and I still would have had to build the motor into a rim, which I also would have to source myself; that might've been fun, but I also could've made a mess of it and had to pay a shop close to a hundred bucks to do that part right!

The bike is also better on specs than most e bikes priced anywhere from $1500 to $2000 if bought direct from a local retailer (if you have one) and having a warranty from someone that has been in the electric vehicle business for some time is more than reasonable as well.

Now comes the waiting!
 

JoePah

Well-Known Member
Fat eBikes by their very nature are not expected to provide high performance.. So why would anyone spend 5000 to 6000 dollars? It's basically a cool looking cruiser bike..

If you want to hit the trails get something else.. if you really want to ride on the beach or the snow. maybe look on AOL for that special someone.

This $1000 fat eBike ticks all the right boxes.. And you'll have plenty of left over money to do something useful.
 
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Jan

Member
I was on my way to purchase a Pedego Trail Tracker when I saw this post. Hmmmmmm? Well this Rad Rover looks like the better deal. So let this post serve as an invitation to those sages who can provide some insite on a purposed decision I'm about to make.

First a little background: I own 3 ebikes; all but one have accumulated serious miles. I own an E-mazing BOB (battery operated bike). I throw this in the back of my evil electric car in case I get stranded or have to go far from the car charging station to my destination; I have really bad knees. Next I have my beloved E-Joe folder with a trailer hitch. I zip everywhere on that thing, minimum 20 miles a day. Finally, my rocket ship- a Motive Shadow. That takes me to work and back everyday. Now I'm seriously considering a fat ebike, here's why: I surf. My favorite surf spot is about half a mile away, down a loose, dry, sand path. It's hard to walk the trail now, because my knee swells up by the time I get to my break and I'm in agony. I've tried to just paddle down, but most of my energy is 'zapped' by the time I get there. I'm thinking a fat ebike is the ticket. The Pedego dealer will sell me a Trail Tracker for $2k, which is 1k off retail: 600watt with Shimano 7 speed, throttle, but no pedal assist. I could own it today and be surfing tomorrow. OR I could get the Rad Rover and wait. OR I could get both and sell one come August, and still have surfed the summer. I would probably be out $1000. I can definitely afford it since I never procreated and thus do not have any weddings, college tuitions or rehab commitments.

I guess my most important question posed to any fat ebike aficionados out there is will a fat ebike work for the purpose I've described?
I also invite those who wish to be my voice of reason. I'm receptive to a dismantling of my logic. I can afford and justify the thousand bucks, but at this point, I think the regret might be difficult to overcome.
 

pxpaulx

Well-Known Member
I think you need to take into account that these crowdfunding eBikes are a fairly new thing. What was available a year ago or 6 months ago? People purchasing eBikes are not necessarily going to KS or IGG to go eBike shopping. New possibilities are opening up, but there is still the issue that any consumer will have to face in terms of warranty work, support, and other issues that go along with purchasing a CF product. Will a "company" be around in a year or 2 if service is needed? What if one of the parts fails, will there be parts replacements available and stocked by the "company?"

I think you might be off on the crowd-funding assessment. E-bikes aren't a big deal here in the US yet, many state laws don't even address their use (I'm lucky to live in Minnesota, where they have established favorable laws at this point). Anyway, since there aren't a lot of retail sellers of e-bikes anyone interested is likely to begin searching online, and a good chance they'll end up finding this site for their extensive reviews. If they are already searching online, I would guess there is a good chance prospective buyers will end up stumbling upon the crowd funding offerings fairly easily (look how much discussion is online regarding the sondors bike for example).

the Sondors bike is priced at a very entry level, and spec'd to match. The problem I had with that bike (and i did consider it) was that the specs don't suit the build with fat tires - it is a bike for basic flat land transport (single speed), made with the wrong tires. The Radrover is pretty close to an ideal fat bike electric build (high torque motor, 750w, reasonably sized battery). The only thing it is missing is a mid drive, but if you can find me a complete fat bike mid drive built bike for less than $2K (and that would be DIY) please tell me where! Back to the Sondors bike, I don't doubt they'll ship the bikes, and i'm sure buyers will enjoy it, but it just wasn't for me, and i don't think it was the right kind of build for fat tires.

Anyway, the warranty issue is addressed by the radrover, the seller is providing a 1 year warranty, which is good peace of mind to me. Additionally, the campaign owner isn't a fly-by-night, new to the business outfit. They are an active member over at endless sphere for 6 or 7 years, and have been heavily involved in the electric transportation industry for just as long (I looked up the owner and his previous products before I committed, he even has a masters in transportation technology from a large university). The campaign page is largely up front about pretty much every question you could ask as well. Ultimately it is still of course a risk, but the upfront outline of what is being sold was enough for me to get in for this bike.
 

JRA

Well-Known Member
Jan, it seems like the key question you need answered is if a fat tire e bike will be able to allow you to negotiate that 1/2 mile path. While carrying your surfboard also. Either the TT or the RR have enough wattage and battery capacity to do the job and are probably close to apples to apples and the throttle is not a big deal and easy enough to work with, and probably easier actually in really loose sandy terrain. Is there any way that you can get the Pedego shop to let you take it and try it out? Even without your board you should be able to get a feel for if a fat bike is up to the task. If it works just get it. If it doesn't then the RR probably won't either.
 

J.R.

Well-Known Member
I can definitely afford it since I never procreated and thus do not have any weddings, college tuitions or rehab commitments.
I gave you a "Like" for this one line!:D Anyone that can give me a laugh deserves a LIKE! Very funny especially the rehab bit. I know nothing about fat bikes, but removing money from the equation, I wouldn't let a season slip away without getting what I wanted or needed. As long as I could afford it....
 

Brambor

Well-Known Member
You need the widest tire possible (close to 5 inches) and beach thread (smooth) at low pressure 5 psi.
 

pxpaulx

Well-Known Member
You need the widest tire possible (close to 5 inches) and beach thread (smooth) at low pressure 5 psi.

Mike, the campaign starter, replied to me at endless sphere regarding tire sizes. the specs he provided showed 4.5inch front and 4inch rear. i do suspect that a larger tire would fit in the rear if the rider is willing to forego use of the top 2 or 3 (easiest) gears. the rear drop out is 187mm (spec as provided by the campaign owner) so i dont think the frame is the limiting factor, just the chainstay clearance. i would guess a tire like the vee bulldozer would possibly fit, and that their h-billie tire would almost for sure fit at 4.25 inches. that said, the juggernaut tires on the bike are much better than most entry level fat tires (typically vee 8s or vee missions) already and might get the job done, especially if you are not a heavy rider.
 

George S.

Well-Known Member
They should be well over $40k today, and now you have to pay the full amount, but the same price. If this campaign works I think it would be a model for everyone. First off, make an interesting bike, something that isn't bare bones. Second, give people real detail, especially on batteries. Third, don't mess with the drop ship "we don't own them, you do" stuff. Fourth, leave the impression you want to be around for a while, and then offer a warranty.

Everything costs money, so maybe this is $500 more than the Storm. Every dollar they have spent has bought something people ought to want. I don't like IGG, but they are a platform. A platform with skuzzy standards. I guess the campaign matters more.

The whole core of the thing is whether you can raise capital you wouldn't otherwise have, buy the parts super-wholesale, and then assemble them or get them over here. You can make choices. You might get the parts to the US, inspect them, and assemble them. Someone might ask where they are doing the actual assembly. I wonder how many hours this requires, how much this costs. Or how much it costs to assemble in the US versus China. And what difference in quality? We know the other parts, basically, because you can buy them on Amazon. The bike frame, motor, and battery are tougher. But this is what matters, the parts selection and the assembly. Many people would be at the mercy of a Chinese factory. Are these guys?

If there are limited costs for promotion and sales, this business model has advantages. If the promoters can actually make a decent bike, word gets around. Great numbers so far.
 

pxpaulx

Well-Known Member
they have past the $40k goal, and have technically sold $57k worth of bikes when considering the half now/half later options. the campaign mentioned they are going to put the first 60 bikes into production right away, so perhaps they will arrive sooner than august for the first contributors (crossing my fingers but i am sure they will clarify tomorrow...someone already asked just as much in the comments section).

speaking to the assembly, these bikes come in with everything but the pedals and handlebars setup. they will likely be opened to inspect and then shipped, without any real setup. that is how bikes direct operates, and it works well for them. that is who i purchased my current fat bike from, and it essentially left the shipping container and had a us shipping label slapped on it. no regrets with that purchase either! last year when i bought fat bike from them, they were selling all of their fat bikes on pre order as well, not much different from the crowd funding sites.

i also agree it is the campaign that matters. lets say the radrover goal of $40k in sales constitutes one shipping container of bikes. maybe they plan to sell ten times that, or at least plan for the possibility. logistically i would guess someone like the radrover team who has crowdfunded before is ready for the possibility of larger scale sales. On the other hand with the storm bike, i think they planned to meet their goal, receive two or three containers worth of bikes to drop ship to their buyers and be done. maybe i try to see the inherent good in people, but i think they just didnt consider the possibility of their quite wild success - hopefully it turns out to work out for everyone who bought in, but i am glad i didnt go for the storm.

the radrover campaign runners answered 90%of my questions in their very detailed description - the remaining 10% they answered directly to me via pm at endless sphere and email through the campaign itself, on the weekend no less. that is what gave me the assurance that i am dealing with an honest business with their campaign.
 
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