Radrover.. Canada 500W Vs USA 750W Geared Motor.

[NemoChitty]

So I notice that RadPower's Canadian Website list the RadRover with a .....
"With 500W and 80 Nm of torque at your disposal, this Bafang geared hub motor "

RadRover Electric Fat Bike Version 5

Shop the RadRover 5 electric bike at Rad Power Bikes, the makers of best-in-class electric bikes for all types of different riders and applications.

radpowerbikes.ca

While RadPower's USA Website list the RadRover with a .....
"HUB MOTOR
750W Brushless Bafang Geared Hub Motor with 80Nm of Torque and 5:1 Planetary Gear Reduction. "

RadRover Electric Fat Bike Version 5

Shop the RadRover 5 electric bike at Rad Power Bikes, the makers of best-in-class electric bikes for all types of different riders and applications.

www.radpowerbikes.com

I called RadPower Bikes, and Olivia in sales confirmed, that is correct, due to Canada's laws & restrictions for public road use.

I learn something new every day!

tim

 

[mrgold35]

I'm not sure how each version would feel since they both have 80 nm of torque. I usually stay 99% of the time in PAS 3 (375 watts) on paved roads and PAS 2 (175 watts) normally or PAS 3 if sandy for trail riding.

 

[Chopperbill]

Wherever you live the upgraded controller from Bolton is a cheap and worthwhile upgrade.

Not about the OP but what year is that BSA you have there. I bought a new 68 650 lighting and it reminds me of it, same color. Too bad I wrapped it around a tree and it was sent to the junk yard. Sure did like that bike

 

[Handlebars]

So I notice that RadPower's Canadian Website list the RadRover with a .....
"With 500W and 80 Nm of torque at your disposal, this Bafang geared hub motor "

RadRover Electric Fat Bike Version 5

Shop the RadRover 5 electric bike at Rad Power Bikes, the makers of best-in-class electric bikes for all types of different riders and applications.

radpowerbikes.ca

View attachment 38220

While RadPower's USA Website list the RadRover with a .....
"HUB MOTOR
750W Brushless Bafang Geared Hub Motor with 80Nm of Torque and 5:1 Planetary Gear Reduction. "

RadRover Electric Fat Bike Version 5

Shop the RadRover 5 electric bike at Rad Power Bikes, the makers of best-in-class electric bikes for all types of different riders and applications.

www.radpowerbikes.com

View attachment 38219

I called RadPower Bikes, and Olivia in sales confirmed, that is correct, due to Canada's laws & restrictions for public road use.

I learn something new every day!

tim

The same motor juiced up to 750 by RadPower.

 

[AHicks]

The deal is there are several ways to rate a motor's wattage and not many rules governing which is used where. For instance, it's pretty easy to restrict a 750 watt motor to 500 watts by limiting the power available to it electronically. There's also the potential for a company to say that their testing suggests a 500 watt motor will actually handle 750 watts, leaving the part that says it will only do that for a few minutes located in the fine print.

Then, there's the real way, where testing shows a 750 watt motor can dissipate heat well enough where it will handle a constant diet of 750 watts.

In Rad's case, there are a lot of very happy owners very satisfied with the amount of power available while in stock form. It's only natural though (for many of us) to want more. With RAD, that's easily accomplished with several routes to go. Question is only how much faster you want to go (within reason of course), and how much money is in the budget....

 

[Timpo]

I think both 500W and 750W are nominal power, not the maximum power.

So my guess is the maximum power is still the same, which means in reality, you probably won't feel much of the difference.

 

[thatdude902]

I think both of them are 500W motors. RPB just distinguish them by how much wattage they feed the motors from the controller. In the controller upgrade thread, there were at least 2 people who opened up the bare motor to upgrade to 750W Bafang motors. One is the American version (mine), and the other is the Canadian version (spmckinnon's). (Hard to tell from the pictures, but the Canadian version might even be 350W motors)

Btw, I have no issues with RPB rating the Radrover as 750w. They said it's 750w and they feed it 750w. The said it can go 20mph and it does.

 

[Rick badgolfer]

Contemplating buying a 750 W Bafang hub motor Fatbike ......recently saw a posted u tube video where a Rad Rover 750 Bafang motor was taken apart, shown to be lighter than another Bafang 750 W, and when tested appeared not to have the power or efficiency the comparative Bafang demonstrated . Am concerned that this may be on the bike I’m considering buying, and/or is this needless worry due to the video? Has anyone any info on this? I hope I’m not breaking the thread of this discussion, but the video raised questions with me. Thanks everyone for understanding.

 

[Timpo]

Contemplating buying a 750 W Bafang hub motor Fatbike ......recently saw a posted u tube video where a Rad Rover 750 Bafang motor was taken apart, shown to be lighter than another Bafang 750 W, and when tested appeared not to have the power or efficiency the comparative Bafang demonstrated . Am concerned that this may be on the bike I’m considering buying, and/or is this needless worry due to the video? Has anyone any info on this? I hope I’m not breaking the thread of this discussion, but the video raised questions with me. Thanks everyone for understanding.

What fat bike? Rad Rover?
What video? The video posted above by Handlebars?

Considering that video was by Bolton, I am assuming that heavy duty 750W Bafang is this one: https://boltonebikes.com/collections/motors-and-kits/products/bafang-fat-bike-hub-motor

 

[Rick badgolfer]

No, not considering Rad rover bike, yes you’re correct about video. Bike I’m considering is for a750 Bike for US market by a Canadian supplier.

 

[Timpo]

No, not considering Rad rover bike, yes you’re correct about video. Bike I’m considering is for a750 Bike for US market by a Canadian supplier.

Okay, but which bike?

As you may know, the power rating can be switched so easily.
For example Juiced Cross Current Air was originally rated at 350W with Bafang SWX02 motor.
Then they kept updating the speed controller by adding more electric current, the exact same motor became 650W motor, or 750W depending on how much amperage and voltage they added.

I found that manufactures do this kind of stuff often because motor can be easily overboosted (don't know the proper term) without too much risk.
So when you buy an ebike with a "500W motor" you could be getting a downgraded 750W or overboosted 250W motor.

Now, I think your question is, you're concerned about if you'll be getting a 750W fat bike motor that was more heavy duty, or if it's an overboosted 500W motor.

That is very hard to answer, you will need to contact the manufacture.

For example, a typical 750W motor on AliExpress is Bafang G07.750.D

However, when I look at Fat Bike rear motor on Bafang website, there are currently 8 different variants available.
Considering Bafang is always updating their lineups, the bike you're getting may have some old or left over stock motor.

https://www.bafang-e.com/oem-area/components/motor/

Many of them fat share identical casing, therefore, you can't just look at the case and judge how big the motor coil or magnets inside.
I have never diagnosed or opened up those fat bike motors, so I have no clue what's the difference.

Here are fat bike motor from Bafang.
RM G060.250.DC
RM G060.350.DC
RM G060.500.DC
RM G060.750.DC
RM.G062.750.DC
RM.G062.750.D
RM.G062.1000.DC
RM.G062.1000.D

For example, RM G060.250.DC and RM G060.750.DC both come with this identical casing.

 

[Rick badgolfer]

Wow, best answer I could ever expect. Thank you for the great info. The bike I’m considering was a fatbike 750 for USA market by DJ ebike in Canada. Have conversed with them by email, but not about this, have been very impressed .

 

[Timpo]

Wow, best answer I could ever expect. Thank you for the great info. The bike I’m considering was a fatbike 750 for USA market by DJ ebike in Canada. Have conversed with them by email, but not about this, have been very impressed .

ok so I'm not familiar with DJ ebikes, but I found their website: https://dj-ebikes.com/

I can see two variants of fat bikes, 500W and 750W

Some of the confusing things here,

Power difference: They're both 1200W (48V battery + 25A controller), they have exact same 48V battery and 25A controller.
Precisely speaking, the power will vary, because the voltage will change during the ride, but they both have exact same battery and controller, which would work out to be 1200W.

So the max power for both is likely 1200W, the 500W and 750W are nominal power, like many other ebike manufactures.

Okay so, what's the difference?

Their range is the same, with exact same battery.
If US version is actually more powerful (different motor, different speed controller settings, power delivery, etc.) the range for US will be worse.
Yet, 750W and 500W's ranges are identical, with identical battery.

What's their explanation to justify the price difference?

 

[GregGritton]

I can see two variants of fat bikes, 500W and 750W
...

Okay so, what's the difference?

Their range is the same, with exact same battery.
If US version is actually more powerful (different motor, different speed controller settings, power delivery, etc.) the range for US will be worse.
Yet, 750W and 500W's ranges are identical, with identical battery.

Most likely:
- The US legal motor limit is 750W, so the US version is labeled a 750W motor
- The Canadian legal motor limit is 500W, so the Canadian version is labelled a 500W motor

 

[Timpo]

Most likely:
- The US legal motor limit is 750W, so the US version is labeled a 750W motor
- The Canadian legal motor limit is 500W, so the Canadian version is labelled a 500W motor

yeah that's what I was thinking, but why are they charging more money for the 750W version?

 

[AHicks]

I agree when it comes to virtually the same bike carrying both 500w and 750w ratings, the difference will be in the controller, with the 500w version being limited to 500w electronically.

There's more to the 500 vs. 750 difference I think. If you take a 750w motor and compare it to a 1500w for instance, the only time the 1500w will be using/making more power than the 750w is when there's more power available and it's being used. If you were to limit power to 750w on both of these motors, on paper they would both have the same range. In practice, the 1500 might even do better due to it's larger diameter and wider armature making more available torque, which may make it more efficient....

Another thought is what if you were to feed both of these motor 1500w? Same result. They would both be making/using the same amount of power. The differences here is that the 1500w motor is able to shed heat better than a 750w (that's how it got the higher wattage rating), so it would keep going long after the 750 quit due to being over heated.

Further, what I found, is what happens when these are compared to a gear drive. With the 5:1 gear reduction available in a gear drive, a 500w motor will smoke the DD motors above in acceleration tests from a stop to 10mph for instance, while using less power. That's a game changer, and why I've become a fan.

 

[Rick badgolfer]

You guys are way above my pay grade knowledge wise. Would you recommend the 500 or 750.
I weigh 225 am 73 years old ..6'3. live in a hilly region with some great mountain biking available within minutes. Presently have commuter ebike...do 10 to 15 miles each day on paved city roads. Choices for me are rad rover, voltbike Yukon 750 limited and DJ fat bike. 1500 USD is my max. I appreciate all and any advice. Thanks guys!

 

[AHicks]

Rick, my advice would be when it comes to hills, the bigger the hill, the more gears the better. So for around town and mild off roading/bike trails a gear driven hub should do. If you want to point that bike up a more serious hill (which can be fun on occasion) a mid drive might be the better choice.

The Rad does have an aftermarket kit to increase available performance available (by 10-20% maybe). That may be something to keep in the mental file. I'm not familiar enough with the other bikes to comment much.

I would add that if you don't plan on doing your own service work, doing a little research on what's available for each bike locally may help you make up your mind. -Al

 

[Rick badgolfer]

If I understand you correctly... you're saying because both batteries are the same but the wattage of the US motor is larger, there should not be a performance difference other than the 750 would have reduced range.
Am I correct? If so then I should purchase the 500 rather than 750? Looking forward to hearing your opinion.
Cheers Rick

 

[Rick badgolfer]

One last silly post. Just got back from Europe...did a bike and barge trip from Passau Germany to Budapest and back.,8 days. Rented an ebike from the tour provider. They used a ....I assume...250 mid motor Bosch system with 7 speed throttle turn shifter. 4 assists...eco, tour sport and turbo. Maybe it was because they were whole season weekly rentals, but was disappointed in performance, particularly on hills.
If you are interested in such a tour, read itinerary carefully. We sailed too much and only cycled about 14% of the total time. Saw some beautiful cities, but seemed to be constantly trying to match boats schedule.
Perceived notion of cycling beside Danube, tasting wines, while cycling leisurely through countryside did quite live up to our imaginations. Cheers.