RAtBuilders Controller Project,

harryS

Well-Known Member


This Question was moved from another Thread,
Ok Harry, now the questions start. I got the controller kit today, and today I started to take the 20" apart. Question #1.....The brake lever wires (2) Blue and red coming from the levers go too different colors on the controller. (810) Blue to black and red to purple. Since it is just s 2 wire switch, it must open the circuit when you apply the brake. On the NEW controller the only 2 wire connector is red and blue, but there is just one. It Ys to another 2 wire connector, and the 2 are then Y into a 3 wire connector. All of these connectors start from 2 wires Green and blue coming from the controller. This set-up is for the purpose of putting the 2 brake switch in series, or am I off in left field about this?

On the 810 controller, the small wires going to the rear hub are 5 in number. The wires from the connector to the hub total 6. The new square connector on the NEW controller had 6 wires from the controller. They have the same colors as the wires from the connector to the hub. Do I just look the same colors to each other?

Can I use the same signal generator that is on the peddles for the NEW controller, or do I need to figure out how to attach the larger wheel with the magnets and the pickup to the peddles? The main wires look like a no-brainer. Red and Black to red and black, and blue green and yellow to blue green and yellow. The throttle red white and black go to the only red white and black connector on the NEW controller. Is this correct?

The NEW display will plug into a connector on the NEW controller.

This leaves 2, three wire connectors (red black and yellow) that are Y into 1 red 1 black, and 1 yellow that come from the NEW controller, without a home.

Also there is a red, black, and blue, 3 wire connector without a home. also on the same sub assy there is a 3 wire connector with brown, yellow, and black, that have no home.

I also am confused as to how to hook up the brake switch wires.
 

harryS

Well-Known Member
You didn't mention the controller/LCD that you bought. Please do. You have have some connectors nmixed up. You can't go by the connector type or wire colors.

Brakes.
If you bought the same KT controller, the brake connectors are three wires. They are in parallel.
KT_brake.jpg

Connect the red/black wires from the Ecotric lever to the black and yellow wires on the above. KT uses a three pin brake because some brake levers contain transistors that need power. Most brake levers just use normally open contact switches. So the red wire, which is 5 volts is not used. I would cut it and tie it off so it doesn't short out.

Those two pin connectors on the KT. They're for regen braking (not possible with your motor) and cruise control.

KT-spare.jpg



Motor Connector
There are six wires coming out of your new controller, and only 5 on the Ecotric controller. Look at the connector from the motor side. It's still a six connector with the white wire not used on the controller side. And it will have wires with the same color,

kt-motor.jpg


Connect your controller wires by color to the six wires on the Ecotric cable. If you have a spare connector, it would be nice, but you can splice directly harness to harness. Just makes it hard to take apart later. The Ecotric controller that uses the 810LED doesn't display speed, so they didn't put in white the wire. Luckily, the motor does come with a speed sensor, and it's in the cable.

If you thought this connector was for throttle, you were wrong, This is the connector for an external speed sensor. It is not needed if you do the motor wiring properly. You remove it or let it dangle. If you ever blow up the speed sensor in the motor, you can buy an external sensor and use this input.

KT-speed.jpg


PAS Sensor (from the pedals)
Use the old one. The new one will work, but these PAS are PITA to put in properly. First there is the wring. Then you have to position the sensor properly, and finally the magnet disk can go on two ways, but only one works. With the existing one, it's already positioned correctly,

From the Ecotric sensor -> KT
Red to Brown
Green to Yellow
Black to Black

KT- PAS.jpg


Throttle

It's the red, black, blue wires connector. Red to Red. Black to Black. White to blue.

KT -throttle.jpg


The remaining connector is for lights. I cut them off,
 

Ratbuilder

New Member
You didn't mention the controller/LCD that you bought. Please do. You have have some connectors nmixed up. You can't go by the connector type or wire colors.

Brakes.
If you bought the same KT controller, the brake connectors are three wires. They are in parallel.
View attachment 76062
Connect the red/black wires from the Ecotric lever to the black and yellow wires on the above. KT uses a three pin brake because some brake levers contain transistors that need power. Most brake levers just use normally open contact switches. So the red wire, which is 5 volts is not used. I would cut it and tie it off so it doesn't short out.

Those two pin connectors on the KT. They're for regen braking (not possible with your motor) and cruise control.

View attachment 76063


Motor Connector
There are six wires coming out of your new controller, and only 5 on the Ecotric controller. Look at the connector from the motor side. It's still a six connector with the white wire not used on the controller side. And it will have wires with the same color,

View attachment 76064

Connect your controller wires by color to the six wires on the Ecotric cable. If you have a spare connector, it would be nice, but you can splice directly harness to harness. Just makes it hard to take apart later. The Ecotric controller that uses the 810LED doesn't display speed, so they didn't put in white the wire. Luckily, the motor does come with a speed sensor, and it's in the cable.

If you thought this connector was for throttle, you were wrong, This is the connector for an external speed sensor. It is not needed if you do the motor wiring properly. You remove it or let it dangle. If you ever blow up the speed sensor in the motor, you can buy an external sensor and use this input.

View attachment 76065

PAS Sensor (from the pedals)
Use the old one. The new one will work, but these PAS are PITA to put in properly. First there is the wring. Then you have to position the sensor properly, and finally the magnet disk can go on two ways, but only one works. With the existing one, it's already positioned correctly,

From the Ecotric sensor -> KT
Red to Brown
Green to Yellow
Black to Black

View attachment 76066

Throttle

It's the red, black, blue wires connector. Red to Red. Black to Black. White to blue.

View attachment 76067

The remaining connector is for lights. I cut them off,
Thank you sooooo much for the reply. The unit is an LCD3. I bought the left hand throttle just for the heck of it, and it also has the red, black, and white wire coming off of it, and it will plug into the red, black, and white connector on the LCD3. It will also plug into the red, black, and blue. Just to be sure, the throttle cable will plug into the red, black, and blue wires coming off the LCD3. The white and blue DO hook into each other.

The brake controller from the kit also only has 2 wires in the plug. Red and blue. So I am still totally confused as to your instruction. The brake switch in the kit DOES have a 3 wire plug, just with one hole without a wire in it.

I would LOVE to use the old peddle set-up.

I am going down to radio shack tomorrow and get some kind of push-together terminals for doing all of the splicing, that way all that I will need to do is solder a new end on which ever component that I will be replacing. All I will need to do is cut the heat-shrink off.

Again Harry, I thank you so much for helping me out with this. I installed electronic fuel injection on my Hot Rod last winter, and this is more of a challenge for me than that was. Also, I absolutely HATED that injection set up. I sent it back and reinstalled my quadrajet. It works so much better.
 

harryS

Well-Known Member
DO NOT try to match the connectors by (a wire color or (b) gender. They're not the same between Ecotric and KT.

-The three wire speed sensor connector from the KT controller is mot used. It's white. red, blacj.
-The respective throttle connectors are both three pin female JST.
-The respective pedal sensor are both three pin male JST.

Instead of buying connectors, cut the throttle and pedal assist connector off the KT controller, and then swap them. Now you will have female to male on both throttle and pedal assist. Of course, you have to realign the wires so power/ground/signal match.,

The Ecotric brake cables are 2 pin male JST,You can parallel thw two brake cables together into one connector, Now you need a 2 pin female KST on the KT controller to receive them. There is one on the cruise control signal. You can cut that off and splice it to the black and yellow wires on the three pin brake connectors from the KT.

THe only connector you're missing now is the six pin motor connector. So you either buy a Molex connector from a shop or splice directly. Either prevents you from easily substituting the orignal Ecotric back into the bike, but you could put a Molex on the Ecotric long term if you want to go back.

These are what PSW power still shows for their KT controllers.

page1.jpg
page2.jpg
 

Ratbuilder

New Member
You didn't mention the controller/LCD that you bought. Please do. You have have some connectors nmixed up. You can't go by the connector type or wire colors.

Brakes.
If you bought the same KT controller, the brake connectors are three wires. They are in parallel.
View attachment 76062
Connect the red/black wires from the Ecotric lever to the black and yellow wires on the above. KT uses a three pin brake because some brake levers contain transistors that need power. Most brake levers just use normally open contact switches. So the red wire, which is 5 volts is not used. I would cut it and tie it off so it doesn't short out.

Those two pin connectors on the KT. They're for regen braking (not possible with your motor) and cruise control.

View attachment 76063


Motor Connector
There are six wires coming out of your new controller, and only 5 on the Ecotric controller. Look at the connector from the motor side. It's still a six connector with the white wire not used on the controller side. And it will have wires with the same color,

View attachment 76064

Connect your controller wires by color to the six wires on the Ecotric cable. If you have a spare connector, it would be nice, but you can splice directly harness to harness. Just makes it hard to take apart later. The Ecotric controller that uses the 810LED doesn't display speed, so they didn't put in white the wire. Luckily, the motor does come with a speed sensor, and it's in the cable.

If you thought this connector was for throttle, you were wrong, This is the connector for an external speed sensor. It is not needed if you do the motor wiring properly. You remove it or let it dangle. If you ever blow up the speed sensor in the motor, you can buy an external sensor and use this input.

View attachment 76065

PAS Sensor (from the pedals)
Use the old one. The new one will work, but these PAS are PITA to put in properly. First there is the wring. Then you have to position the sensor properly, and finally the magnet disk can go on two ways, but only one works. With the existing one, it's already positioned correctly,

From the Ecotric sensor -> KT
Red to Brown
Green to Yellow
Black to Black

View attachment 76066

Throttle

It's the red, black, blue wires connector. Red to Red. Black to Black. White to blue.

View attachment 76067

The remaining connector is for lights. I cut them off,
Hi Harry. I used a multi meter and discovered that the brake switches are normally open. So that makes perfect sense that they hook up to the two connectors that have 3 wires that are all Y together. I think that I understand now. Thanks again for your help. I found some very small slide connectors at Radio Shack today, so tomorrow I will start to reassemble the 20".
DO NOT try to match the connectors by (a wire color or (b) gender. They're not the same between Ecotric and KT.

-The three wire speed sensor connector from the KT controller is mot used. It's white. red, blacj.
-The respective throttle connectors are both three pin female JST.
-The respective pedal sensor are both three pin male JST.

Instead of buying connectors, cut the throttle and pedal assist connector off the KT controller, and then swap them. Now you will have female to male on both throttle and pedal assist. Of course, you have to realign the wires so power/ground/signal match.,

The Ecotric brake cables are 2 pin male JST,You can parallel thw two brake cables together into one connector, Now you need a 2 pin female KST on the KT controller to receive them. There is one on the cruise control signal. You can cut that off and splice it to the black and yellow wires on the three pin brake connectors from the KT.

THe only connector you're missing now is the six pin motor connector. So you either buy a Molex connector from a shop or splice directly. Either prevents you from easily substituting the orignal Ecotric back into the bike, but you could put a Molex on the Ecotric long term if you want to go back.

These are what PSW power still shows for their KT controllers.

View attachment 76142View attachment 76143
I got it done Harry. The only real issue was putting 6 pounds of crap into a 4 pound sack. This would have been impossible for me to do if it were not for your wiring keys. I finished it up at 7:30 tonight. I did not ride it, but I had it hanging from my crane and the PAS works, the brakes work, the throttle works. All that I have left to do is wrap the wires and cables. I do not know if I am going to use what I took off, or get something else. I have it all tied up and held together with plastic ties, but they are green, and it looks funny. LOL

Again, thank you sooooo much for all of your help. I could not have done it without you, and that is a fact.
 

Ratbuilder

New Member
Hi Harry. I used a multi meter and discovered that the brake switches are normally open. So that makes perfect sense that they hook up to the two connectors that have 3 wires that are all Y together. I think that I understand now. Thanks again for your help. I found some very small slide connectors at Radio Shack today, so tomorrow I will start to reassemble the 20".

I got it done Harry. The only real issue was putting 6 pounds of crap into a 4 pound sack. This would have been impossible for me to do if it were not for your wiring keys. I finished it up at 7:30 tonight. I did not ride it, but I had it hanging from my crane and the PAS works, the brakes work, the throttle works. All that I have left to do is wrap the wires and cables. I do not know if I am going to use what I took off, or get something else. I have it all tied up and held together with plastic ties, but they are green, and it looks funny. LOL

Again, thank you sooooo much for all of your help. I could not have done it without you, and that is a fact.
This is just an up-date. It is only 30 degrees here today, but I took the 20" folder out for a SHORT ride today, and it is soooo awesome!!! There is no more surging, there is just smooth predictable power delivery in pedal assist mode. There is absolutely no comparison to the 810 controller. Why Ecotric would not install the 5 stage power controller like is on my 26" bike is a real question. Maybe if enough people complain, they will start.

Thank you HarryS. Your help was definitely appreciated. If anyone is nervous about doing this up-grade to their 20" folder, all of the information that they need is in this thread.