Just in case anyone reads this and is curious. The wonderful techs at freewheel bike here in mn suggested to make sure the opposite side of the tire be in the middle of the rim when putting the tire iron in for removal. Sure enough this gave me just enough leverage to get the wire bead over the rim!
I'm going to mount ajuggernaut 4.5 in the rear, here's hoping there is no chain rub it will be tight!
The bike shop ( a very respected one) that I took just one wheel too spent 1/2 hour getting the tire off of the rim. They broke 3 tools, the guy (3rd employee to try) was completely red in the face by the time he was done. I bought 2 new different tires, I have to be able to fix a flat while out riding on a trip.