Ride1Up Roadster V2 or...?

I had a RadCity in the past and liked it a lot. At that time, my round-trip commute to and from work was around 15 miles. I never really paid attention to the range between charges, but it always seemed to have plenty. But around the time COVID/lockdown happened, I also moved from a duplex with a garage to a 3rd floor apartment with stairs (and no elevator). Since I was working from home due to lockdown and because that thing was a beast to haul up and down stairs, I got rid of the RadCity. I did, and still do, otherwise ride regular (acoustic) bicycles.

Now I'm starting to go back into work again and want the convenience of an ebike. I also really want something lighter that won't be a bear to get up and down the stairs. I'm in great shape, but I know from experience that something as heavy and cumbersome as the RadCity will make me less likely to use it. However, my commute to work is now about 10 miles each way with modest hills, so I need something with at least 20 miles of range.

I'm considering the Roadster V2 because it's listed at 32 pounds, up to 25mph, and 20-35 miles of range. I like that it's about the weight of a normal bike, as well as the simplicity and stealth aspects (though I would prefer a chain to a belt drive). With a 36v 7ah battery, I'm not sure if I can actually get 20 miles out of the V2, even in lower assist levels. Obviously, riding it without assist would defeat the purpose, and the gearing it comes with is absolutely massive for riding without assist.

Other similar bikes I've found come with the same size battery. I'm specifically looking at the Luna Fixed, but there isn't much user feedback on the real-world range of that bike. I refuse to consider the FLX Babymaker, so please don't suggest that. And I can't spend more than about $2,000, so something like the Specialized Vado SL is too expensive. The next weight class of bike would be something like the RadMission (47 pounds), R1U Core-5 (48 pounds), or LMT'd (51 pounds). All of those are considerably heavier than the V2, but still quite a bit lighter than the RadCity and I'd feel more confident in having sufficient range.

Can someone who has a better understanding of range chime in to let me know what I might expect out of the Roadster V2? Other than those options, are there other similarly light weight ebikes out there, perhaps with somewhat better range? Or, am I just going to have to find a compromise?
 
Thanks, but the Espins are 55 pounds. I'm looking for something as light as possible to get up and down the stairs, but with just enough range to safely make my 20-mile round trip commute to and from work. The Core-5 is more my style in that type of bike, and quite a bit lighter than the Espin as well. That's more what I'm leaning toward if that's the kind of bike (i.e. battery capacity) I need.
 

WattsUpDude

Active Member
I quite like the Roadster V2 and it seems like a really good value. But if you're willing to spend up to $2k, I'd still opt for the Luna Stealth. If you have a secure place to charge at work, then it would be a great choice. It's the only bike with a middrive, torque sensor, 3-speeds and belt drive at this price point that I know of.
 
Thanks, WattsUpDude, all good points. If anything, I'm afraid the range on the Luna is even less than the V2 because the motor has a higher nominal output with the same size battery. I found one good Reddit reviewer that makes it sound like it won't go much farther than 12-15 miles on a charge, which I posted over in the Luna forum. I just feel like if I have to charge that often, especially for the increased price, then the purchase isn't worth it.


Technically I could take the bike up to my office to charge, but I'd really rather not. Plus, the building just upgraded bike parking so that the rack is fenced in with a locked door only accessible via key card, so it's a great place to park a bike.
 

WattsUpDude

Active Member
Thanks, WattsUpDude, all good points. If anything, I'm afraid the range on the Luna is even less than the V2 because the motor has a higher nominal output with the same size battery. I found one good Reddit reviewer that makes it sound like it won't go much farther than 12-15 miles on a charge, which I posted over in the Luna forum. I just feel like if I have to charge that often, especially for the increased price, then the purchase isn't worth it.


Technically I could take the bike up to my office to charge, but I'd really rather not. Plus, the building just upgraded bike parking so that the rack is fenced in with a locked door only accessible via key card, so it's a great place to park a bike.


That's pretty disappointing range for an otherwise great bike. I totally understand range anxiety when commuting. My last bike was an Orbea F30 with an even smaller battery but with a less powerful hub drive. On my faster days I'd end up with a little less than 40% capacity when arriving at work. I always charged up when I got to work but sometimes worried about needing to leave early and not having a full charge.

If you can allow for more budget, check out the Yamaha Cross Core. They're a bit heavier at 43 pounds but it'll have much more power than you need for hills and a decently big battery, too. Looking back at previous eBike purchases, I've come to the conclusion that having more bike than you need is a really good thing.
 
I'm really interested in what Yamaha is doing with their bikes and motors but somehow I forgot about the Cross Core, thank you! I agree with you and I have also come to realize that if I just buy the cheapest option available I regret it more than spending a little extra. This evening I'm going to look at a DIY for sale locally that has a big 48v/17.5ah rack battery, but the seller says is only around 40 pounds. If that's true, or even if it's under 50 pounds, that might work out. Just depends on how awkward it is to pick up. If I don't like it, one or two shops around Denver are Yamaha dealers, so I'll call around and see if I can get a ride on a Cross Core. I'm not super into ordering a bike online, but my budget just isn't big enough to buy some of the more expensive options.
 

BET

Active Member
Battery only takes 2 hours to charge. Battery must be pretty small.
Perhaps buy an extra battery and take it along just in case.
 
I don't think an extra battery is possible in either the Roadster V2 or the Luna Stealth/Fixed. Both have batteries that fit in the down tube and aren't made for easy or regular removal.
 

Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Have you considered the Propella ebikes? Court did reviews on at least 2 versions...33 pounds and $1000 IIRC .
 
Yes, thank you. I'd forgotten about it when I posted but did go back and look in the past couple days. The top assisted speed is 18mph. I currently average 15-16mph under my own power on my commute now. Of course I would get the benefit of the reduced effort. But I'd really like to cut down my commute time to as close to 30 minutes as possible, which means averaging closer to 20mph (actually, I don't care if it takes longer to get home but I'd like to get to work in the morning as quickly as possible). If my top speed is 18mph, accounting for stops and traffic is going to end up being about the same time it takes me under my own power. Also, they advertise 250wh, which is virtually identical to the Roadster V2 (252wh). I definitely like that the single speed comes with a more normal gear ratio, the option for a 7-speed, and rear rack mounts. But the lower top speed, lower-powered motor, and same size battery means the Propella is out.

On another note, I did go try the ebike conversion earlier. It held about 23mph on throttle-only, which would've been fine. But it was not as advertised weight-wise. I knew it wouldn't be 40 pounds, but I was hoping for something like 50 with the battery. Instead, it felt like 50 pounds without the battery, which was a good 10 pounds extra. And because it was a rear hub drive with the battery mounted in the rear rack, all of that weight was in the back. Going up the stairs might have been manageable by putting the rear wheel on the stairs and pushing. But going down would've been more trouble than I'm willing to put up with. I'm going to call around tomorrow and see if I can find a Cross Core to try out. I'm hopeful that a mid drive with the mass in the middle will be easier to lift and carry, but I've never tried a mid drive before.
 

Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Yes, thank you. I'd forgotten about it when I posted but did go back and look in the past couple days. The top assisted speed is 18mph. I currently average 15-16mph under my own power on my commute now. Of course I would get the benefit of the reduced effort. But I'd really like to cut down my commute time to as close to 30 minutes as possible, which means averaging closer to 20mph (actually, I don't care if it takes longer to get home but I'd like to get to work in the morning as quickly as possible). If my top speed is 18mph, accounting for stops and traffic is going to end up being about the same time it takes me under my own power. Also, they advertise 250wh, which is virtually identical to the Roadster V2 (252wh). I definitely like that the single speed comes with a more normal gear ratio, the option for a 7-speed, and rear rack mounts. But the lower top speed, lower-powered motor, and same size battery means the Propella is out.

On another note, I did go try the ebike conversion earlier. It held about 23mph on throttle-only, which would've been fine. But it was not as advertised weight-wise. I knew it wouldn't be 40 pounds, but I was hoping for something like 50 with the battery. Instead, it felt like 50 pounds without the battery, which was a good 10 pounds extra. And because it was a rear hub drive with the battery mounted in the rear rack, all of that weight was in the back. Going up the stairs might have been manageable by putting the rear wheel on the stairs and pushing. But going down would've been more trouble than I'm willing to put up with. I'm going to call around tomorrow and see if I can find a Cross Core to try out. I'm hopeful that a mid drive with the mass in the middle will be easier to lift and carry, but I've never tried a mid drive before.
Don't know your budget but Trek dealers and many others will rent you a middrive for a day and apply it to your purchase. I would ride a middrive before buying anything over maybe $1500 to $2000 US. But thats what I ride, so no surprise
 
Biktrix Swift Lite?

Charge City?

Wing Freedom?

I don't think I was aware of the Charge or Wing, thank you! I was just looking again at the Propella and RadMission last night and wondering why more simple but relatively light ebikes don't exist. These appear to answer that question. Particularly the Wing, which looks like it has everything I'm looking for and is listed at "just under 40 pounds." I could also get the Wing fully loaded for under budget. I still want to try the Yamaha out because I've been interested in their bikes for a while, but it would be more than I really want to spend.

Edit: I just went to the brand forum and there is no section for Wing bikes, which is a little disconcerting. I saw the Electrek review on youtube but no EBR review. Any idea how long they've been around?
 
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Don't know your budget but Trek dealers and many others will rent you a middrive for a day and apply it to your purchase. I would ride a middrive before buying anything over maybe $1500 to $2000 US. But thats what I ride, so no surprise

Yep, I really want to get a test ride on the Yamaha and experience a mid drive. I would consider Trek, as I've generally had much better experiences with their local dealers than Specialized. But the cheapest bike that really fits my needs is the Verve+2, which is a little more expensive than the Yamaha and over 50 pounds. So, that really isn't want I'm looking for.
 

Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Yep, I really want to get a test ride on the Yamaha and experience a mid drive. I would consider Trek, as I've generally had much better experiences with their local dealers than Specialized. But the cheapest bike that really fits my needs is the Verve+2, which is a little more expensive than the Yamaha and over 50 pounds. So, that really isn't want I'm looking for.
And although the cheapest Trek the Verve +2 probably won't meet your needs, most Trek shops will rent you one for a day...and you could make a day trip with one. Mine gave me 3 days for 1 days rate b/c of rain and a pedal problem, but still a fun outing and convinced me to go with a different middrive. YMMV.
 
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I test rode a Cross Connect and a Wabash yesterday evening. They didn't have a medium Cross Core and I'll echo what others have said about Yamaha's sizing being quite small. The small looks like a child's bike. I think I've at least come to the conclusion that I need a mid drive system with good battery capacity for my use case (commuting and carrying the bike up and down stairs). My experience with rear hub motors is that you don't so much pick up the bike as you lift the front and drag the rear along. Going up isn't terrible, but trying to get it down stairs is just more trouble than I'm willing to put up with on a regular basis. The Wing still looks like an intriguing option at under 40 pounds, but the very limited user feedback here makes me nervous.

I've mostly accepted that I'm going to spend the money and I've mostly accepted that I want a bike with drop bars. Riding the Cross Connect only reminded me that shifting up and down with two different levers on either side of the bar is more fiddly than I'm used to. I went back and looked at Trek and Specialized, but the options I'd like are some combination of heavier, more expensive, and/or less torque. I also looked at Giant, but those again are either heavier or more expensive, and also have smaller 375wh batteries.

So, I think I've settled on Yamaha. Just thinking out loud here, the Wabash is very tempting, but so is going 28 mph on the Civante. The frames seem virtually identical across Yamaha's lineup, so things like tire clearance and fender/rack mounts aren't really an issue. The issue is that the shop doesn't have any Civante bikes in stock yet, they don't think they'll get any for at least another month, but they want half the purchase price as a deposit for when one comes in. I totally get wanting a deposit, but half the price seems like a lot when they don't even know when they'll get one.

I'm wondering whether I wouldn't be just fine with 20mph, at least initially, and then unlock the speed limiter if/when I want more. WattsUpDude's experience with his Urban Rush makes me nervous that it might not work on a Wabash either, though apparently it does? And lastly, there's gearing. My winter 'cross bike has 2x 105, and I like the lightness of the shifting. I'm sure Tiagra on the Civante is close enough. But my road bike has Force that I converted to 1x and the Apex on the Wabash felt very familiar and nice as well. And the gearing is so wide that I don't really think I'd need any more than that. If it were just down to the bikes themselves, I'd probably get the Wabash. But of course the whole point is having the electric assist and FOMO of class 3 on the Civante has me second-guessing whether I should wait.
 

WattsUpDude

Active Member
I test rode a Cross Connect and a Wabash yesterday evening. They didn't have a medium Cross Core and I'll echo what others have said about Yamaha's sizing being quite small. The small looks like a child's bike. I think I've at least come to the conclusion that I need a mid drive system with good battery capacity for my use case (commuting and carrying the bike up and down stairs). My experience with rear hub motors is that you don't so much pick up the bike as you lift the front and drag the rear along. Going up isn't terrible, but trying to get it down stairs is just more trouble than I'm willing to put up with on a regular basis. The Wing still looks like an intriguing option at under 40 pounds, but the very limited user feedback here makes me nervous.

I've mostly accepted that I'm going to spend the money and I've mostly accepted that I want a bike with drop bars. Riding the Cross Connect only reminded me that shifting up and down with two different levers on either side of the bar is more fiddly than I'm used to. I went back and looked at Trek and Specialized, but the options I'd like are some combination of heavier, more expensive, and/or less torque. I also looked at Giant, but those again are either heavier or more expensive, and also have smaller 375wh batteries.

So, I think I've settled on Yamaha. Just thinking out loud here, the Wabash is very tempting, but so is going 28 mph on the Civante. The frames seem virtually identical across Yamaha's lineup, so things like tire clearance and fender/rack mounts aren't really an issue. The issue is that the shop doesn't have any Civante bikes in stock yet, they don't think they'll get any for at least another month, but they want half the purchase price as a deposit for when one comes in. I totally get wanting a deposit, but half the price seems like a lot when they don't even know when they'll get one.

I'm wondering whether I wouldn't be just fine with 20mph, at least initially, and then unlock the speed limiter if/when I want more. WattsUpDude's experience with his Urban Rush makes me nervous that it might not work on a Wabash either, though apparently it does? And lastly, there's gearing. My winter 'cross bike has 2x 105, and I like the lightness of the shifting. I'm sure Tiagra on the Civante is close enough. But my road bike has Force that I converted to 1x and the Apex on the Wabash felt very familiar and nice as well. And the gearing is so wide that I don't really think I'd need any more than that. If it were just down to the bikes themselves, I'd probably get the Wabash. But of course the whole point is having the electric assist and FOMO of class 3 on the Civante has me second-guessing whether I should wait.


If I was in your shoes, Civante would likely be my choice. You might be used to higher end components but I'm really impressed with current day Tiagra except when I'm shifting from the drops. And I'm coming from a road bike equipped with Ultegra. You can fit bigger tires on the Civante if you plan on doing some gravel grinding. I've got 38mm Gravel Kings on mine and it looks like I could fit 45mm tires comfortably. And about that 20MPH vs 28MPH limit...it really depends. Most of my bike use is commuting. I'd absolutely love to have Class 3 speeds for that. But when I'm on a nice weekend ride, I really don't need it. Having a middrive with a torque sensor, I know I'll never consider purchasing a hub drive system with a cadence sensor ever again. When I first started considering eBikes, the Wing bikes definitely caught my eye but I'm glad I didn't follow through. Instead, I just made a different kind of mistake purchasing an Aventon Pace 500. :p
 
Thank you for your feedback @WattsUpDude it has really helped me out. I had older versions of 105 and Tiagra on bikes 8-10 years ago and was frankly surprised how much better 105 feels now compared to then. I'm sure Tiagra has improved similarly as well, I just don't think I'll need the double chain ring. I also had the same thought about tire clearance. I run 37mm Conti Winter Contact tires on my 'cross bike, so if I could go slightly larger in the winter that would be even better. But the tires that come on the Civante seem like perfectly good commuter tires for most conditions. I think I'm just going to have to put down the deposit, wait, and try to get a more concrete timeline from the bike shop for when they'll get the Civante in stock.

My thought on the Wing is that it's listed as "just under 40 pounds," which I interpret as about 39 pounds. Since I'd opt for the largest battery, it would likely be about 40. For about 5 pounds more, I greatly preferred the torque and responsiveness of the Yamaha system. I was surprised that the sensation is different from a rear hub motor, in that it feels like you're going with the bike instead of being pushed from behind. I know this is more unique to me, but I also prefer lifting and carrying a bike with the mass in the middle. Despite the cost, that might be the most important difference versus the cheaper options for me. Plus, having a local shop to go to and the warranty if anything goes wrong is reassuring. I'd hate to spend $1,000 or more on a cheaper bike online only for it to show up with problems and then be out of luck with the seller.
 
For anyone who might be looking for something similar to the Roadster V2, I dug around and found this thread: https://electricbikereview.com/foru...s-miller-desiknio-urban-or-ampler-curt.30789/

The other two are much more expensive, but the Enki Miller also has a Gates drive and comes with a Bafang M500 or M600 mid-drive. It comes with the same size battery, integrated into the downtube, as the Roadster V2 and Luna Fixed (36v + 7ah = 252wh) so range would be at least as bad as the Luna. But according to their website, they're sold out. According to their Facebook, they'd really rather sell you a Billy, which is totally different. And finally, according to their indiegogo/kickstarter campaigns they were supposed to ship the Miller in June 2020, but they haven't posted updates since March. It looks like the OP of that thread ordered one, but disconcertingly nobody has posted anything to indicate they got a bike yet. It would be totally understandable if Covid delayed things, but the company going dark past the expected shipping date is not a good sign. As far as I'm concerned, that bike doesn't actually exist (yet).

I also somehow totally forgot VanMoof does exist and the S3/X3 weighs a little over 40 pounds, is sort of a similar bike, but comes with a much better 504wh battery for $2,000. They will ship it to the US, in which case you can apparently increase the top speed to 20mph. The X3 might actually be easier to pick up and carry because of the lower top tube design. It looks kind of quirky, which I like. But it also has a front-hub motor with VanMoof's sort-of-internal gear system in the back, both things I don't like. And, it isn't shipping until November/December 2020.