Riese & Müller Delite review

Matt A

Member
Wow this is intriguing. When you say the shop fixed it was that Propel? Or did you take it somewhere else? Did they give you a full explanation? I'm very curious as to what the problem was, what caused it to occur and how it was fixed. Any more info you have would be greatly appreciated. I haven't had any trouble with my Nuvinci yet but I'm only at 500 miles. I asked my LBS if they had ever worked on them. The mechanic told me he had successfully repaired the mechanical Nuvinci without too much trouble but had an electronic/automatic Nuvinci that was a major pain in the rear. And with that he said the Fallbrook Technologies was really hard to work with. Just one mechanic's feedback.

Regarding the speed: I'm still glad I got the 28mph version but I have learned that I could have lived with the 20mph bike for commuting. My commute has so much start/stop that I rarely find myself over 20mph. The other day I hit 27mph but it was for only a very short stretch. When I do have open road, I find myself usually cruising right around 20mph in Tour mode. I find myself wondering whether the higher torque but lower speed Bosch motor would have been a better choice for my commuter bike just in terms of efficiency and battery range. The HS Charger is a blast to ride so no regrets at all so I was just referring to what the most "efficient" choice would have been. Over my last few commutes, I've averaged about 2 hours and 10 to 20 minutes for the 35-36 miles or about 15+mph. I'd say I have a few sections where I can get the speed up and cruise but for the most part it is start/stop commuting.
I will certainly get some more information on what went wrong with the NuVinci. I had it fixed at Propel and spent the day in Brooklyn with family so when I picked up the bike I was very tired. I asked about what was wrong and everything but I will ask again in a way that will allow me to explain it to you. Initially I went to Firth & Wilson in Philly and he re-aligned the gear range rings of the Nuvinci which were out of alignment. For some reason, this actually made it worse and instead of spinning like a clown at 24mph i was doing it at 20mph. That guy told me the Nuvinci had to be reset internally but he didnt have time to do it. I had propel fix it so I will ask when I go there in a week or so to pick up my girlfriends bike, she got the same as you I believe. Charger GT Nuvinci HS in matte black, but she got dual battery as well. Can never have too much lithium!

It works great now at least! I am almost at 1000 miles now, but I ride the bike really really hard sometimes. Since my Nuvinci was messed up I was discouraged from working since speed helps me make more money, so I took it up and down some rough terrain and in the city at night was jumping off all of the driveway curbs like I did when I was a kid, only this time I was going 20+ mph. It was so much fun, the bike really can take a beating but I am not sure why this Nuvinci thing happened to me. I was thinking about the electronic Harmony Nuvinci one day, but Kyle at propel told me it isnt smooth and feels glitchy. My only motivation for it was the fact that my cables were frayed multiple times for seemingly no reason. The 2nd time it happened it was from over tightening the cable into the metal piece at the end.

I drive through Center City Philadelphia constantly, but I ride quickly and pedal hard/fast so I end up hitting over 20mph even if I am stopping and starting 1 block at a time. I just like the ability to travel at a speed that cars behind me really cant complain when there is only one lane or the million other situations that require riding in the car lane. Honestly, I mostly travel in the middle of the car lane because I jump red lights, only yield at stop signs, and don't want to get doored. Cars never complain, it usually only takes a couple seconds off the line to hit 15-20mph, I can be at 25+ by half a block when actually putting in real effort.

I don't think efficiency is changed much between motors, just depends more on how you ride I guess. Really I think the dual battery gives more than double the range of a single battery. I took a test ride one night in all Turbo to see how far I could go. Mind you, I was riding in all Turbo, with about a 225lb load on the bike between me and all my tools, water, supplies, and my 10lb Abus chain. I went 52 miles before the range said 1 mile left, I didnt run it to dead but stopped when the range said 1 mile. Also, I have the Supernova M99 Pro, and used it on high beam for most of the ride but pointed down because my tail light only turns on right now if I turn the high beam on the light. Remedying that with the M99 tail light. Anyway, with all that weight, electronic usage (including phone charging), and I frequently travel 25+, and also this was all in busy city stop/start riding, I amazingly went over 50 miles!

With regards to your speed, it sounds like you go faster than you think! At 2 hours and 20 minutes for 36 miles, thats an average of about 15mph if you never stop and just do 15 the entire time. With all the stopping and starting you are doing you must be going faster :)

I ordered a Nyon a while back and it took 4 weeks for German Customs to just cancel it and send it back. I tried again using Ebay this time for an extra $100 compared to the bike-discount.de price, and in just 4 days since shipment its already just a couple towns away! The guy shipped it the day after I ordered, and it went through the exact same German facility. With the Nyon I will have a ton more stats to help decipher where the wattage really goes! After I get that, my final 'upgrade' will be the Sherlock bike tracker when it ships in a few weeks. I am very excited to have the Nyon though, I feel like for a $7000 bike, it should have more than the Intuvia. The Intuvia is great, but minimalist. The Nyon is feature rich, but most likely still has some glitches. I just feel like it really completed the whole feel of having spent car money on a bike if the bike has a serious headlight, and a serious smart computer with GPS. Other than that everything has been great on the bike, the only thing I ever get jealous of is the suspension setup and fenders on the Moustache Starckbike, even though the bike as a whole is something I'd never choose.

P.S. The day after I did that 52 miles all turbo test, I had charged the bike fully and it showed a crazy 154 mile range in Eco.

Oh I forgot one thing to mention but then I remembered you have only 1 battery. Charging on the bike is weird, no matter how much I charge it, my Range in Turbo will only go up to like 38-40. When I charge the batteries separately off the bike using 2 chargers, it will then show me a 5-54 mile range estimate. However, when I begin a ride 'fully' charged but only showing 38 miles of range, I can go 20 miles and the range will still say 30. Really weird, can't figure out why! At first I thought the batteries were only charging to 80% on the bike, but now I'm see the range is just inaccurate, can't imagine why....
 

Matt A

Member
Yes Matt, got the bike two weeks ago. Chris Nolte was kind enough to have someone personally deliver it on a Sunday. Can't say enough about Chris . . . great guy, knowledgeable, responsive, caring.

Like you, my delayed response to your last post is due to the email notifications mysteriously going missing, but no biggie - I've also been super busy, so haven't even looked at the forum since getting the Delite.

I'll give a full narrative of my first impressions in a separate posting, hopefully within the next day or so. For now, suffice it to say that it is pretty much all as advertised: exceptional quality/engineering, lots of fun. Due to inclement weather and commitments that required my truck, I didn't get to ride it more than 10 miles the first week, but have been making up for it with 140 miles over last week commuting to work + doing a lot of "dead head" miles over this past weekend.

Quick "feel good" story for now: I took it out early yesterday (Easter Sunday) for a 35 mile ride on some of my favorite local roads. On the way back & approximately 6 miles from home, I have a flat in the rear. Not a big deal, since I always carry pump, toolkit, and spare tube. Since I am still setting up the bike and haven't found a good on-frame mounting point for the pump, plus the tool kit isn't mounted on the seat yet due to my still fooling around with seat position settings, I have been keeping all that emergency repair stuff in my right pannier. So, I go to get the pump, etc., out of the pannier and . . . the pannier is missing! Since my wife isn't driving yet (recovering from neurosurgery) and I didn't want to bother friends/family on an Easter Sunday morning, I figured I'd just bite the bullet and started to push the bike the rest of the way home (glad Chris told me how to operate the push assist function - some pretty substantial hills on the route). Anyway, I go maybe one mile and a couple on a tandem stops and offers to pump up the tire. I figured "what the heck, let's see what happens" and the tire did take the air - slow leak. I jump back on the bike, go maybe 1/2 mile and it is flat again. Push another 2.5 miles and woman on another bike stops and offers her pump. This time I really crank the pressure up, thank her profusely, and ride as fast as possible to put more miles on before the tire flattened. Actually got most of the way home. I get home, hop in my truck, and retrace the entire 35 miles in hopes of finding my lost pannier + contents. Didn't see it the whole route until . . . I get one block away from my house and there it is, propped up against a hydrant. Contents untouched. Actually, the pannier is an Arkel Expedition, one of the originals custom made when they were just getting into biz and not cheap, so it would have been sorely missed. Anyway, through pure luck and a string of good Samaritans, all turned out well! The "trail angels" were definitely looking out for me.

The Delite rack is shorter (top to bottom) than the standard after market bolt-on racks I've had in the past, so even though I had done some adjustments, I guess the panniers were still not quite tight enough; also, the thicker diameter of the rack top tube negated the use of the pannier lock mechanism. Will have to figure that out since buying new panniers is not an option right now. Will also be sure to frame mount the pump and make sure the toolkit is mounted on the seat rails, not thrown in the pannier.

As mentioned, I'll post my initial impressions soon.
Hey, you can post your full review within this thread if you want, but if you want to start your own I understand:) Your story was very funny, I would have been so upset to see a pannier missing! I lock the panniers onto my rack with a small Abus chain. I am glad you found yours! I recently lost a full set of keys for my bike, the whole key ring gone! Lost the battery and abus lock keys, as well as the 2 keys to my car roof rack for the Yakima and Rockymounts.... Thank god I had a spare of everything, but I have no idea where they went! I usually leave my keys in my Abus Granit city chain which I then bungee onto the rack using the bungees that came with it. They key stays in the locking core well, if you turn it so that it can't be pulled out out, you really have almost no chance of losing it. If you've had that chain youll know what I mean, it really stays in there well. I have no idea where it went!

I had a similar situation with a slow leak where I had to stop and pump every mile, it sucked! One thing you can always count on are fellow cyclists to help out, I've had some guys go wayyyy above and beyond in helping me once or twice on the side of the road. Of course you had to ride your whole route just to find your bag a block away, but at least you found it!! I would be so upset if I lost a great product I couldnt replace. I use the huge Ortleib panniers.

By shorter for the Delite rack, do you mean from saddle to tail? Or from the top of the rack to the bottom by the dropouts? I have never had any other bike with a rack, but I do notice that my Ortleibs have a hard time attaching the bottom swing bolt to clamp onto the rack from the bottom. It seems like the rack arms are in the worst place for attaching that bottom support piece. I kind of forced one on there which eventually led to it flying off my pannier. I keep a lot of tools in those bags and used to keep my 10lb abus chain in there but it would cause the panniers to bump the tire and spokes in rough riding. Now I just roll the chain up and use the bungees to hold it onto the rack which works fine, I have nothing on top of the rack anyway. For my girlfriends bike, we bought the 60L Ortleib Duffle RG. She wanted something she could wheel around so I guess we will just bungee the hell out of it to her Charger rack lol
 

Jeff Kagy

New Member
this brings up a great question ( I'm a newbie to this forum and cycling in general so my apologies if this is answered in other forums )

I have heard great reviews about Propel and want to give them my business ( principally due to the bike brands they carry ) however , I live in greater Boston area -

If a consumer purchases a new bike out of town, how do you service the bike ? ( es-ecially me , Murphys Law will prevail so I will need service from time to time )

Are the Riese & Muller (Delite) or Bulls brands so complicated that a reputable bike store in Boston area can't work on them / repair them ?

Thanks
 

Drumulac

Member
Hey, you can post your full review within this thread if you want, but if you want to start your own I understand:) Your story was very funny, I would have been so upset to see a pannier missing! I lock the panniers onto my rack with a small Abus chain. I am glad you found yours! I recently lost a full set of keys for my bike, the whole key ring gone! Lost the battery and abus lock keys, as well as the 2 keys to my car roof rack for the Yakima and Rockymounts.... Thank god I had a spare of everything, but I have no idea where they went! I usually leave my keys in my Abus Granit city chain which I then bungee onto the rack using the bungees that came with it. They key stays in the locking core well, if you turn it so that it can't be pulled out out, you really have almost no chance of losing it. If you've had that chain youll know what I mean, it really stays in there well. I have no idea where it went!

I had a similar situation with a slow leak where I had to stop and pump every mile, it sucked! One thing you can always count on are fellow cyclists to help out, I've had some guys go wayyyy above and beyond in helping me once or twice on the side of the road. Of course you had to ride your whole route just to find your bag a block away, but at least you found it!! I would be so upset if I lost a great product I couldnt replace. I use the huge Ortleib panniers.

By shorter for the Delite rack, do you mean from saddle to tail? Or from the top of the rack to the bottom by the dropouts? I have never had any other bike with a rack, but I do notice that my Ortleibs have a hard time attaching the bottom swing bolt to clamp onto the rack from the bottom. It seems like the rack arms are in the worst place for attaching that bottom support piece. I kind of forced one on there which eventually led to it flying off my pannier. I keep a lot of tools in those bags and used to keep my 10lb abus chain in there but it would cause the panniers to bump the tire and spokes in rough riding. Now I just roll the chain up and use the bungees to hold it onto the rack which works fine, I have nothing on top of the rack anyway. For my girlfriends bike, we bought the 60L Ortleib Duffle RG. She wanted something she could wheel around so I guess we will just bungee the hell out of it to her Charger rack lol

I'll definitely post my review of the Rohloff GX in this forum Matt as soon as I get some time to do so (Grrrrr. . .). Regarding the rack dimensions vis-à-vis the panniers - the R&M rack is shorter from top to bottom (vertically). I, too, find the bottom support piece of the rack to be oddly setup. I'm sure there is a reason for it being that way and there must be some standard they are following, but it is definitely not compatible with panniers I've owned. But, I'm doing a workaround that will take care of the issue.

One more humorous "lost pannier" story: My wife and I were doing a three week self contained trip in Alaska back in 1995. We had just started out, having flown into Anchorage. First day, we ride to Whittier to catch the ferry to Valdez. I forget the name of the state park we camped in, but right after setting up the tent and getting settled in, a ranger comes by to warn us that there was high Grizzly activity in the area and told us to be sure to clean up well, hang a bag with our food & utensils away from the site, etc. We used to keep our portable kitchen kit and cook stove in one of my wife's front panniers. When camping,we would use a length of zip cord, attach it to a tall overhanging limb, and then hoist up the food pannier 10 feet or so above the ground to keep it from the wild critters. Having celebrated the beginning of our trip with maybe a bit too much JD, I got lazy before turning in and didn't do a great job of hanging the pannier, though it was a considerable distance from our site. Upon waking in the morning, the pannier was missing . . . directly underneath it were very fresh Grizzly tracks! We looked around (very carefully), but never found the pannier. My wife spent the rest of the trip with a sleeping back bungeed to the front rack where the pannier should have been. Visions of mama, papa & baby bear sitting around the den using the spices and utensils to dine on their latest victim. When we got back home, I contacted my LBS who had sold us the panniers to order a new set. Turns out that the folks at Cannondale were so amused by the bear story that they sent on a new pair at no cost.
 
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Matt A

Member
I'll definitely post my review of the Rohloff GX in this forum Matt as soon as I get some time to do so (Grrrrr. . .). Regarding the rack dimensions vis-à-vis the panniers - the R&M rack is shorter from top to bottom (vertically). I, too, find the bottom support piece of the rack to be oddly setup. I'm sure there is a reason for it being that way and there must be some standard they are following, but it is definitely not compatible with panniers I've owned. But, I'm doing a workaround that will take care of the issue.

One more humorous "lost pannier" story: My wife and I were doing a three week self contained trip in Alaska back in 1995. We had just started out, having flown into Anchorage. First day, we ride to Whittier to catch the ferry to Valdez. I forget the name of the state park we camped in, but right after setting up the tent and getting settled in, a ranger comes by to warn us that there was high Grizzly activity in the area and told us to be sure to clean up well, hang a bag with our food & utensils away from the site, etc. We used to keep our portable kitchen kit and cook stove in one of my wife's front panniers. When camping,we would use a length of zip cord, attach it to a tall overhanging limb, and then hoist up the food pannier 10 feet or so above the ground to keep it from the wild critters. Having celebrated the beginning of our trip with maybe a bit too much JD, I got lazy before turning in and didn't do a great job of hanging the pannier, though it was a considerable distance from our site. Upon waking in the morning, the pannier was missing . . . directly underneath it were very fresh Grizzly tracks! We looked around (very carefully), but never found the pannier. My wife spent the rest of the trip with a sleeping back bungeed to the front rack where the pannier should have been. Visions of mama, papa & baby bear sitting around the den using the spices and utensils to dine on their latest victim. When we got back home, I contacted my LBS who had sold us the panniers to order a new set. Turns out that the folks at Cannondale were so amused by the bear story that they sent on a new pair at no cost.
How's it going with everything?
 

Matt A

Member
I'm looking to upgrade the suspension on the bike to something suitable for trail riding, I figure for commuting I can adjust the fork and shock to how I need it or just lock them out. I was looking at the Fox 34 Factory Float and the Fox Float Evol rear shock. The bike has 100mm travel front and rear currently, I was looking to increase the front to 120mm maybe, and leave the rear at 100mm. I was looking for any advice, I am finding it difficult to find the fork I want with a 100mm axle length so that I can continue using a Pitlock on my front wheel with their Fox 15mm thru axle.
 

Drumulac

Member
How's it going with everything?

Wow, how time flies! I've been looking for a chunk of time to do a comprehensive review of my GX Rohloff and it is just not happening. So, I'll just do it piecemeal as time permits.

I've had the bike for maybe 5-6 weeks. Obviously, a quality piece of machinery, which it should be considering the "investment"! This is my second juiced pedal machine - as mentioned in previous posts, I have owned a Greenspeed GTO trike for 8 yrs now and installed an EcoSpeed boom mount kit on it last year. Comparison to the Delite is kind of an apples and oranges thing - the EcoSpeed motor is 1000 + watts vs. 350 watts for the Bosch, EcoSpeed is a throttle type vs. the Bosch pedelec system, I'm using (2) 48V 20 ah batteries for the EcoSpeed vs. (2) 36V 11 ah batteries for the Bosch, and of course, I'm comparing a three wheel vs. two wheel machine. The trike weighs a bit more with both batteries but has a much smaller wind resistance footprint. No suspension on the trike (could use it!) & the Delite is fully sprung. Similarities in that both machines are fully internally geared and both have a Rohloff as the final rear gearbox. Two different animals, for sure, utilizing different approaches to electric assist. I'll try to minimize my comparisons between the two (this is an R&M forum after all), but forgive me if I do so occasionally.

Reason for buying the Delite: I've been riding bicycles for umm . . . many years now, both recreation and commuting, and self-contained long distance touring. Owned/have owned way too may bikes (just ask my wife). Recently I came to the realization that my old body just ain't what it used to be and since electric assist technology is finally getting ironed out/practical, maybe it was time to give it a shot. Besides, it looked like it would add another fun dimension to the mix. I also had stopped commuting to work due to some knee issues. Pretty good hills along the route + you have to go up 15%-20% grades for a few blocks to get back to my house. Commuting on the newly juiced trike was not an option - not a great choice for in-town travel due to visibility issues. So, I thought I'd maybe mount an EcoSpeed on one of my road bikes. The more I considered it, the better the purpose built e-assist bikes looked; and besides, it is always more fun to get a new ride (wife does not agree). All the armchair online research inevitably led to the R&M bikes and from there it wasn't too much of a jump to the Delite Rohloff. I won't repeat my previous posts re: the Rohloff choice. I simply went with the known quantity (and quality) there, based on 8 yrs. experience with one. The proverbial "no-brainer" in gearing choice for me. I did go through some changes regarding pedelec vs. throttle type. The EcoSpeed on the trike has quite a bit of torque and can jump you off the line quickly with no pedal input at all, a consideration in sketchy traffic stop light situations, etc., but . . . I had demoed a few pedelec bikes and liked that they feel more like a bicycle than a moped.

To be continued - lunch break over!
 

Drumulac

Member
So, Rohloff Delite GX HS it was. I reached out to Chris Nolte of Propel and (at my prodding) he was kind enough to offer a modest discount on his floor model, but with the proviso that I had to wait for him to take delivery of another one before he sent the demo to me. Fair enough. Chris was good to his word re: estimated delivery time. Three weeks passed and sure enough, he got the new demo in and made arrangements to have the bike brought to my office on a Sunday afternoon (I live in a small city an hour or so north of NYC). Nice of him to go out of the way and offer to deliver as I had some personal things going on that would have kept me from picking it up within the next week or so.

First impressions: Sweet! Only 22 demo miles on the odometer. I already had a few alterations and additions in mind (guess that is the male version of "accessorizing") , but the essential core was all there - substantial frame, nice components, obviously well thought out, maybe a bit over-engineered - if that is even possible. Being purpose built exclusively as an e-bike, nothing about it has that "aftermarket-afterthought" feel. Solid as can be. No pretensions of being anything but a steady road warrior, capable of taking hard knocks and shrugging off the usual daily insults from the two ton motorized behemoths one encounters on the daily commute. Yeah, kind of a motorcycle feel, but still very much a vehicle that requires human input to motivate. Pretty heavy, but I had spent a lot of time in another life piloting touring bikes loaded down with four panniers and 50-69 additional lbs of gear, so I knew I wouldn't be phased by the weight that the two batteries and Bosch motor entailed. This thing knows it's purpose: built to bull through most stuff, on or off road, without the rider wondering if something is going to crack, snap off, or otherwise make things unpleasant.

As things go, the first week that I had it turned out to be nasty weather-wise. Record low temps, mixed precipitation. I think I clicked maybe 15 miles total over the over the first few days. On the first nice day, the following Sunday, I put 30 + miles on it. Super happy with it. Went on road and on trail. The brakes, suspension, beefy 27.5" tires, and power package all work well together. It's not a "pocket rocket", as we used to refer to certain motorcycles way back when, but the whole package works as advertised. I am liking it a lot. The Rohloff gives it an awesome low range, though I would like to get a bit more headroom at high speed ie. have pedal input over 30 mph. I did get the bike over 40 mph, but that was going down a big hill with inertia being the only motivator. In day to day riding, that really isn't a factor and I guess I could always put a smaller cog on the Rohloff at some point (but probably won't). At high speed, I had total confidence and the suspension ably handled a surprise pothole around 35 mph. Why potholes in NY in the spring should be a surprise, I don't know, but it was a substantial one nonetheless and the bike pretty much took it in stride. Power assist is just about right. At first you find yourself obsessing over the (4) available ranges, but I find myself pretty much either running it on tour or turbo mode. You definitely know that all those micro adjustments for shifting and human pedal effort are going on in the Bosch brain, but for the most part it just does that job well and it works rather seamlessly. After the first 100 or so miles, I was over any second thoughts about not having gotten a "throttle" type e-assist or opting for more power. Despite the added weight of the electric assist components, the pedal effort vs. a non-electric bike is reduced by maybe 50%, Works for me. The Intuvia controller is pretty straight forward. Almost like a typical bike computer but with power functions added. It took some getting used to not having the wealth of detailed data that the Cycle Analyst produces on my EcoSpeed trike setup, but simplicity is a good thing too. I am curious, Matt, how your Nyon is working out for you.

Time to start using the bike on a daily commuting basis. And then a few hiccups occur . . .
 
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Matt A

Member
So, Rohloff Delite GX HS it was. I reached out to Chris Nolte of Propel and (at my prodding) he was kind enough to offer a modest discount on his floor model, but with the proviso that I had to wait for him to take delivery of another one before he sent the demo to me. Fair enough. Chris was good to his word re: estimated delivery time. Three weeks passed and sure enough, he got the new demo in and made arrangements to have the bike brought to my office on a Sunday afternoon (I live in a small city an hour or so north of NYC). Nice of him to go out of the way and offer to deliver as I had some personal things going on that would have kept me from picking it up within the next week or so.

First impressions: Sweet! Only 22 demo miles on the odometer. I already had a few alterations and additions in mind (guess that is the male version of "accessorizing") , but the essential core was all there - substantial frame, nice components, obviously well thought out, maybe a bit over-engineered - if that is even possible. Being purpose built exclusively as an e-bike, nothing about it has that "aftermarket-afterthought" feel. Solid as can be. No pretensions of being anything but a steady road warrior, capable of taking hard knocks and shrugging off the usual daily insults from the two ton motorized behemoths one encounters on the daily commute. Yeah, kind of a motorcycle feel, but still very much a vehicle that requires human input to motivate. Pretty heavy, but I had spent a lot of time in another life piloting touring bikes loaded down with four panniers and 50-69 additional lbs of gear, so I knew I wouldn't be phased by the weight that the two batteries and Bosch motor entailed. This thing knows it's purpose: built to bull through most stuff, on or off road, without the rider wondering if something is going to crack, snap off, or otherwise make things unpleasant.

As things go, the first week that I had it turned out to be nasty weather-wise. Record low temps, mixed precipitation. I think I clicked maybe 15 miles total over the over the first few days. On the first nice day, the following Sunday, I put 30 + miles on it. Super happy with it. Went on road and on trail. The brakes, suspension, beefy 27.5" tires, and power package all work well together. It's not a "pocket rocket", as we used to refer to certain motorcycles way back when, but the whole package works as advertised. I am liking it a lot. The Rohloff gives it an awesome low range, though I would like to get a bit more headroom at high speed ie. have pedal input over 30 mph. I did get the bike over 40 mph, but that was going down a big hill with inertia being the only motivator. In day to day riding, that really isn't a factor and I guess I could always put a smaller cog on the Rohloff at some point (but probably won't). At high speed, I had total confidence and the suspension ably handled a surprise pothole around 35 mph. Why potholes in NY in the spring should be a surprise, I don't know, but it was a substantial one nonetheless and the bike pretty much took it in stride. Power assist is just about right. At first you find yourself obsessing over the (4) available ranges, but I find myself pretty much either running it on tour or turbo mode. You definitely know that all those micro adjustments for shifting and human pedal effort are going on in the Bosch brain, but for the most part it just does that job well and it works rather seamlessly. After the first 100 or so miles, I was over any second thoughts about not having gotten a "throttle" type e-assist or opting for more power. Despite the added weight of the electric assist components, the pedal effort vs. a non-electric bike is reduced by maybe 50%, Works for me. The Intuvia controller is pretty straight forward. Almost like a typical bike computer but with power functions added. It took some getting used to not having the wealth of detailed data that the Cycle Analyst produces on my EcoSpeed trike setup, but simplicity is a good thing too. I am curious, Matt, how your Nyon is working out for you.

Time to start using the bike on a daily commuting basis. And then a few hiccups occur . . .
I enjoyed reading everything you wrote. I am glad I got the NuVinci, but only because of my riding stlye. The Rohloff is definitely better. I use the bike for going to a number of destinations around the city and I like to get done quickly, so I am constantly shifting as I ride around very quickly. If I owned a Rohloff, I'd likely get used to it but when I tried a demo I just hated it. I have been testing the limits of the bike a lot, and have crashed a number of times. The bike never gets hurt really, and the Nyon back is scuffed up from a couple spills but still works great. It is very detailed and I like looking at my rides afterwards. I ride almost always in Turbo, I only ride in Tour if I will be running out of battery. Hard to believe I know, but I frequently do over 60 miles on the bike at once. I am really looking forward to upgrading the suspension on the bike and having a set of MTB tires for off-roading. I have been testing the limits of the bike and have fallen off a number of times, so once I upgrade the rear shock and fork, I want to avoid scratching them lol.

There are a lot of paved trails near me and also some dirt and gravel trails too. I went up a steep climb on a 6 inch wide dirt path covered in roots and boulders like it was nothing. Coming back down was a bit scary with the Super Moto X tires that have 1500 miles of wear on them, I am sure I will feel much more confident with some nobby nics on like the GX has I believe. I never did any trail riding before, but I really had a blast trying it out and will be doing a lot of it in the future.

More on the Nyon, I really am glad I upgrades. It just looks so much cooler and gives you a ton of information. I know the exact battery percentage as well which is a plus since steep sections of a ride can really distort the range for the overall ride. You can see a map of your path and can see your altitude, cadence, speed, and power output and any point along the ride. I like the navigation, but it is not as good as Google Maps. It is just like using a tomtom or garmin sat nav. The directions are fine but the city has a lot of close streets, it would be nice to see the street names on the map but it just shows the roads with no names. Sometimes of course navigation lags a little, so it would be nice to see the name of the roads on screen. It does not show the names of random streets around you on the map, nor the name of the street you are supposed to turn onto next, and also not the street you are currently on. No street names, just an animation to follow. I really just like the Nyon for how it looks, the Intuvia works fine but it is such a simple display on a bike that has so much more to offer (not to mention it looks high tech).

The Nyon display does take a few extra seconds to load up, and sometimes restarts during a ride (not often). The good thing though is that the power assist works from the second you hit the power button, even though the display is loading. And when the Nyon restarts mid-ride for no reason, the assist never stops, so really doesn't bother me. One other thing is that the Nyon does not allow me to turn on the High Beam of my Supernova M99 Pro. The Intuvia light button worked for the high beam and also for turning it on during the day, but with the Nyon connected, the headlight is completely independent. It won't turn on when the sun is out, and won't turn off at night nor turn the high beam on, the light button is useless even though the light icon appears when I click it. Perhaps I need it to be changed to switchable from a shop, I have not checked yet. Worst case scenario I will have to attach the high beam button that came with the light, but it will not reach my handlebars since the light is mounted on the fork crown. I like it better there, the lighting is perfect and cars can see my lights better in their mirrors because it is at the same level as car headlights. I will have to epoxy the button onto the actualy light or something lol.
 

Over50

Well-Known Member
Matt - I was wondering if you received your GPS tracker yet? I think you were ordering from an Italian startup? My Boomerang has died so if I can't resolve it I might be looking for another option. If you have received it do you have any feedback/impressions on the product? Thanks
 

Matt A

Member
Matt - I was wondering if you received your GPS tracker yet? I think you were ordering from an Italian startup? My Boomerang has died so if I can't resolve it I might be looking for another option. If you have received it do you have any feedback/impressions on the product? Thanks
Hey, sorry to hear your boomerang died. I actually have not received my tracker yet but should be within the next couple weeks. My last update said it will be sent End of May/Early June. I ordered 2 of them, 1 for each R&M. I will let you know how it goes, when I get it I will certainly test it out and have someone 'steal' it so I can test everything out, as well as the motion detection
 

Drumulac

Member
I enjoyed reading everything you wrote. I am glad I got the NuVinci, but only because of my riding stlye. The Rohloff is definitely better. I use the bike for going to a number of destinations around the city and I like to get done quickly, so I am constantly shifting as I ride around very quickly. If I owned a Rohloff, I'd likely get used to it but when I tried a demo I just hated it. I have been testing the limits of the bike a lot, and have crashed a number of times. The bike never gets hurt really, and the Nyon back is scuffed up from a couple spills but still works great. It is very detailed and I like looking at my rides afterwards. I ride almost always in Turbo, I only ride in Tour if I will be running out of battery. Hard to believe I know, but I frequently do over 60 miles on the bike at once. I am really looking forward to upgrading the suspension on the bike and having a set of MTB tires for off-roading. I have been testing the limits of the bike and have fallen off a number of times, so once I upgrade the rear shock and fork, I want to avoid scratching them lol.

There are a lot of paved trails near me and also some dirt and gravel trails too. I went up a steep climb on a 6 inch wide dirt path covered in roots and boulders like it was nothing. Coming back down was a bit scary with the Super Moto X tires that have 1500 miles of wear on them, I am sure I will feel much more confident with some nobby nics on like the GX has I believe. I never did any trail riding before, but I really had a blast trying it out and will be doing a lot of it in the future.

More on the Nyon, I really am glad I upgrades. It just looks so much cooler and gives you a ton of information. I know the exact battery percentage as well which is a plus since steep sections of a ride can really distort the range for the overall ride. You can see a map of your path and can see your altitude, cadence, speed, and power output and any point along the ride. I like the navigation, but it is not as good as Google Maps. It is just like using a tomtom or garmin sat nav. The directions are fine but the city has a lot of close streets, it would be nice to see the street names on the map but it just shows the roads with no names. Sometimes of course navigation lags a little, so it would be nice to see the name of the roads on screen. It does not show the names of random streets around you on the map, nor the name of the street you are supposed to turn onto next, and also not the street you are currently on. No street names, just an animation to follow. I really just like the Nyon for how it looks, the Intuvia works fine but it is such a simple display on a bike that has so much more to offer (not to mention it looks high tech).

The Nyon display does take a few extra seconds to load up, and sometimes restarts during a ride (not often). The good thing though is that the power assist works from the second you hit the power button, even though the display is loading. And when the Nyon restarts mid-ride for no reason, the assist never stops, so really doesn't bother me. One other thing is that the Nyon does not allow me to turn on the High Beam of my Supernova M99 Pro. The Intuvia light button worked for the high beam and also for turning it on during the day, but with the Nyon connected, the headlight is completely independent. It won't turn on when the sun is out, and won't turn off at night nor turn the high beam on, the light button is useless even though the light icon appears when I click it. Perhaps I need it to be changed to switchable from a shop, I have not checked yet. Worst case scenario I will have to attach the high beam button that came with the light, but it will not reach my handlebars since the light is mounted on the fork crown. I like it better there, the lighting is perfect and cars can see my lights better in their mirrors because it is at the same level as car headlights. I will have to epoxy the button onto the actualy light or something lol.

Hey Matt - love that you're pushing the limits of your Delite. Due to a number of factors, most of which are not under my control, I've only got 500 miles on mine so far, which are mostly straight forward commuter runs.

Interesting re: the Nyon. I would purchase it for the more detailed battery stats more than anything else. Sounds like it needs a few firmware/software tweaks - hopefully, you can simply do upgrades via the usb port as they (inevitably) are offered. I have a Garmin 1000 Edge, which I switch out between bikes. It more than covers all those post-ride statistics and is nice since it automatically pushes the data to my phone as soon as I save the ride via Bluetooth and also to my tablet bv wifi or direct connection when recharging. All sorts of fun info to sort through - mapping, cumulative/comparative ride stats, profiles, temperature, course creation tools, etc. It does give you side streets, upcoming turn alarms, etc. So I certainly wouldn't need the Nyon for those functions. Too bad the Nyon reboots mid-ride on you. Maybe a connector problem? The light issue doesn't surprise me. For whatever reason, my Intuvia stopped turning on the rear light at around 100 miles, whatever mode you put it in (high beam, on-off, front light handlebar switch, etc). Don't know what that is about, but I'll put Propel on notice and eventually have them look at it. I think I read somewhere in this thread that the same thing happened to someone else? Was that you? I have an older model Dinotte tail light with the external battery that I put on when that happened so that works well - in fact, much better than the factory light - since it flashes in different modes and has quite the output. I'm o.k. as long as my headlight is still working . . . super pleased with the Supernova M-99 that came with the GX. In any case, I think I'll wait until the bugs are ironed out before I go for the Nyon.
 

Matt A

Member
Hey Matt - love that you're pushing the limits of your Delite. Due to a number of factors, most of which are not under my control, I've only got 500 miles on mine so far, which are mostly straight forward commuter runs.

Interesting re: the Nyon. I would purchase it for the more detailed battery stats more than anything else. Sounds like it needs a few firmware/software tweaks - hopefully, you can simply do upgrades via the usb port as they (inevitably) are offered. I have a Garmin 1000 Edge, which I switch out between bikes. It more than covers all those post-ride statistics and is nice since it automatically pushes the data to my phone as soon as I save the ride via Bluetooth and also to my tablet bv wifi or direct connection when recharging. All sorts of fun info to sort through - mapping, cumulative/comparative ride stats, profiles, temperature, course creation tools, etc. It does give you side streets, upcoming turn alarms, etc. So I certainly wouldn't need the Nyon for those functions. Too bad the Nyon reboots mid-ride on you. Maybe a connector problem? The light issue doesn't surprise me. For whatever reason, my Intuvia stopped turning on the rear light at around 100 miles, whatever mode you put it in (high beam, on-off, front light handlebar switch, etc). Don't know what that is about, but I'll put Propel on notice and eventually have them look at it. I think I read somewhere in this thread that the same thing happened to someone else? Was that you? I have an older model Dinotte tail light with the external battery that I put on when that happened so that works well - in fact, much better than the factory light - since it flashes in different modes and has quite the output. I'm o.k. as long as my headlight is still working . . . super pleased with the Supernova M-99 that came with the GX. In any case, I think I'll wait until the bugs are ironed out before I go for the Nyon.
Yeah the battery stats are cool, you get an exact percentage and there are stats that tell you how many watt hours of power your using and how much you use on average. There are a lot more stats that I never looked at before. I do like too that the Nyon syncs to my phone instantly and my computer as soon as I am in Wifi range. There certainly could be a connector problem, but it only happens rarely. I rode 50 miles the other day without it happening, most times it doesnt. But like I said, I wouldnt even know it happened if I just didnt look down for a few seconds. I don't think there are any bugs to speak of with the Nyon besides the restarting, even phones do that. The light issue for me only started with the Nyon, but I think I just have to have the lights changed to switchable from the dealer to fix it. How do you like the M99 Pro by the way? I love it, it does get some condensation inside, but it doesnt affect the beam at all. I like having mine mounted between the crown race and head tube.

I do love everything about this bike now that I customized it to me. The only thing left to upgrade is the suspension then I am done I swear. I convinced myself to spend all this money on this bike just to spend another $3,000+ on accessories and upgrades, kind of snowballed...
 

Over50

Well-Known Member
Yeah the battery stats are cool, you get an exact percentage and there are stats that tell you how many watt hours of power your using and how much you use on average...I do love everything about this bike now that I customized it to me. The only thing left to upgrade is the suspension then I am done I swear. I convinced myself to spend all this money on this bike just to spend another $3,000+ on accessories and upgrades, kind of snowballed...
.

I feel like my Intuvia gives me what I need in terms of feedback except: what I would really like is a summary for each trip of what percentage or miles I spent in Eco or Tour etc. I try to manage my range and workout just as a rough guess and I tell myself "I want to do this commute at least 40% in Eco". So I try to keep a mental log as I ride but obviously that won't be close to being exact. Does the Nyon give you that info on how much distance or trip percentage by mode?

This may sound crazy but regarding your suspension upgrade: have you considered a second bike? It seems to me that Delite is designed as a trekking/commuter bike and not for rougher off-road riding. Another Bosch bike would allow you to switch the batteries out. I'm actually considering a second commuter bike perhaps the Haibike Trekking 5.0. I like the idea of switching my ride from time to time and moving from the fatter tires of the Charger to something a little more traditional bike-like. I was interested in the Specialized Vado 6.0 that is just being released but I also like the idea of sticking with Bosch in order to be able to switch those batteries.

My Charger is running great by the way. I commuted twice this week (today included) and I'm settling in on a consistent 2 hours and 10 minutes for about 34 miles total. I'm close to 850 miles.
 

Matt A

Member
.

I feel like my Intuvia gives me what I need in terms of feedback except: what I would really like is a summary for each trip of what percentage or miles I spent in Eco or Tour etc. I try to manage my range and workout just as a rough guess and I tell myself "I want to do this commute at least 40% in Eco". So I try to keep a mental log as I ride but obviously that won't be close to being exact. Does the Nyon give you that info on how much distance or trip percentage by mode?

This may sound crazy but regarding your suspension upgrade: have you considered a second bike? It seems to me that Delite is designed as a trekking/commuter bike and not for rougher off-road riding. Another Bosch bike would allow you to switch the batteries out. I'm actually considering a second commuter bike perhaps the Haibike Trekking 5.0. I like the idea of switching my ride from time to time and moving from the fatter tires of the Charger to something a little more traditional bike-like. I was interested in the Specialized Vado 6.0 that is just being released but I also like the idea of sticking with Bosch in order to be able to switch those batteries.

My Charger is running great by the way. I commuted twice this week (today included) and I'm settling in on a consistent 2 hours and 10 minutes for about 34 miles total. I'm close to 850 miles.
**I added this paragraph as an afterthought and added it to the top. With the Intuvia, I took mine off at 900 miles. When I take MY Intuvia and put it on my girlfriends bike, it will read out like 130 miles, which is her total amount traveled. However, when I installed my Nyon, it reset the odometer, and if you do a factory reset on your Nyon, it resets the Odometer again. I am curious to see if I will get my true total Odometer reading if I put my Intuvia back on my bike. The only reason I did not test this is because I installed the Nyon with the set screw. This is really odd since it would mean the Intuvia is pulling the Odometer info off the motor, and the Nyon just saves the Odometer locally within its memory.

The Nyon gives more information than one could want. I think the only common readout its missing is temperature, but you can use your computer to customize the stats that you can view on the Nyon. You can view maybe 25-30 different stats on the Nyon.

So the Nyon can tell you everything you are looking for. I am not sure about during a ride, for the particular stats I am about to mention, but probably in the app you can see it. The Nyon shows you a circle graph with the percentages of each assistance mode you were in, and it also tells you how many watts of power you put out. It tells you the percentage of work the motor did, and the percentage of output that was all from you. There are a ton of readouts, you should probably pull up the Nyon manual from Bosch, it will tell you the majority of the readouts.

You can customize all the different screens of the Nyon to show you exactly what you want, including graphs of ride data. You have the navigation screen, a home 'overview' screen, a Ride screen, and Fitness screen. The overview screen shows some common stuff like battery percent, a graph of the total miles traveled over the past month, a counter of your most miles per month, overall distance odometer, and more. The last 2 screens can be customized completely, and the Nyon can switch from your custom screen with all the stats in each mode to their default layout for a cleaner look with only major stats. You can make the entire screen only display one stat, have one large main stat readout with smaller tiles around it with other stats, or have the entire screen be small tiles of all different readouts.

I'll throw some pics in here for you. The ride time counter does not stop as long as the bike is on. I tend not to turn my bike off when stopping for 5-10 minutes. I had some houses to stop at for work so the time is definitely off for actual ride time. I don't know if the other averages start going down since I'm adding zero values to the average by not moving. Not sure if it counts that or not. On the line graph or on the map you can mouse over it and it shows your power output, altitude, speed, and cadence at any exact point in your trip.

The calories burned is cool too since I am sure there is some accuracy added by the fact that it knows your exact power output into the bike. Of course if you wanted to use a heart rate monitor, it would sync with your Nyon and be most accurate.

If you have any questions about the pictures, let me know. I just didn't feel like captioning them all separately, but I think it is easy to understand.
 

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Matt A

Member
.

I feel like my Intuvia gives me what I need in terms of feedback except: what I would really like is a summary for each trip of what percentage or miles I spent in Eco or Tour etc. I try to manage my range and workout just as a rough guess and I tell myself "I want to do this commute at least 40% in Eco". So I try to keep a mental log as I ride but obviously that won't be close to being exact. Does the Nyon give you that info on how much distance or trip percentage by mode?

This may sound crazy but regarding your suspension upgrade: have you considered a second bike? It seems to me that Delite is designed as a trekking/commuter bike and not for rougher off-road riding. Another Bosch bike would allow you to switch the batteries out. I'm actually considering a second commuter bike perhaps the Haibike Trekking 5.0. I like the idea of switching my ride from time to time and moving from the fatter tires of the Charger to something a little more traditional bike-like. I was interested in the Specialized Vado 6.0 that is just being released but I also like the idea of sticking with Bosch in order to be able to switch those batteries.

My Charger is running great by the way. I commuted twice this week (today included) and I'm settling in on a consistent 2 hours and 10 minutes for about 34 miles total. I'm close to 850 miles.
I forgot one other thing. I don't really use the Custom Riding Mode option, but you would probably benefit from it. I have a lot of battery and mostly use Turbo. I ride quite fast the majority of the time, so it will still be a workout in Turbo. With averaging a lower speed, and not having to stop ever 100 feet for a red light will probably make the custom riding modes very beneficial. There is a huge jump between Eco and Tour. So hypothetically, you could have the 4 standard modes to use, while also having say 4 super specific modes all in between Eco and Tour.

There is also Topographic Range which causes gives you a range estimate based on the Topography of your route or just the land around you in general. You can pull up a map with Topographic range and it will show you a very detailed squiggly circle showing the radius with which you can travel based on elevation.

With the suspension upgrade to the Delite, most people kind of look at me like I am crazy for doing it. I am going with a 120mm travel 2018 Fox Float 34 Factory series as well as the Fox Foat Factory DPS EVOL rear shock, both with that nice looking Kashima coat. My motivation for upgrading is because I ride fast, really fast a lot of times. In areas that permit, I am always jumping curbs, and if I have no cargo, a speedbump becomes a small jump. Riding fast means occasionally hitting some nasty potholes. I do want to take the bike on some trails sometimes, but nothing serious. I think it can handle things fine from what I have tested, the only thing I will switch when going on trails is to swap out the Super Moto X's with some Rock Razors.

The 120mm fork will slack the head angle some, which provides better stability but slower handling. With the current angle on the bike as it sits, it has some room for the extra 20mm of travel without a noticeable compromise to handling. What about the Delite would you say makes it not for trails? I think the bike geometry isn't ideal for trails, but trails will be 1% of my riding. Other than that, the rack of course is dumb for trails, and fenders would get in the way, but I will be swapping the tires and removing the fenders for trails. The rack is no big deal. If I were to get a 2nd bike for trails, I would get a regular MTB and not an EMTB. I do not do enough trail riding to justify a 2nd bike. I don't even ride enough trails to justify the suspension upgrade, but I do ride a lot rougher and think I will benefit from it. I have tried adjusting the current ones a lot, and they just don't perform well on small bumps no matter what I do. On big hits and even most medium hits the suspension does well. Unfortunately the smaller bumps, cracks between sidewalk blocks, and cobblestones are absolutely jarring and teeth rattling.

Good luck with your next bike purchase if you decide to get another! The Turb Vado 6.0 is pretty cool, but I would have to stick with Bosch as well. I haven't used 2,000 Wh in one trip yet, but knowing I have a dual battery and have my girlfriends 2 batteries to throw in a bag means I can really go any distance I could ever imagine traveling on a bike. I am glad your Charger is holding up really well for you. One thing I noticed, and it may just be me, but my girlfriend and I both got the same frame size for the Delite and Charger, but her bike is a bit more upright and also sits up higher than mine by an inch or so. I don't know what measurement to call it, but if both bikes are sitting right next to each other, her handlebars are higher than mine. This could just be the headset and spacer setup being different. I am of course biased, but I think my Delite will do great for some simple trail rides. I wouldn't take this on any serious trails with real downhill riding, the thing is wayyy too heavy and creates way too much momentum. I have to admit, I like having the best looking and best performance stuff. I upgraded to the Nyon since it seemed like a proper electronic to come with a $7,000 bike compared to the Intuvia, and same goes for the M99 Pro. The suspension is the only thing on the bike I have been able to find as a negative. It will complete the look and performance of the bike I wanted once the suspension is upgraded. For the price it would be cool to come with same suspension as the Delite mountain in my opinion, perhaps just tuned differently.
 

Over50

Well-Known Member
..The Nyon gives more information than one could want...So the Nyon can tell you everything you are looking for. I am not sure about during a ride, for the particular stats I am about to mention, but probably in the app you can see it. The Nyon shows you a circle graph with the percentages of each assistance mode you were in, and it also tells you how many watts of power you put out. It tells you the percentage of work the motor did, and the percentage of output that was all from you. There are a ton of readouts, you should probably pull up the Nyon manual from Bosch, it will tell you the majority of the readouts...

Wow. You answered my question and with extremely thorough detail. I saw it in the pics! I wanted to target mode percentages as part of my fitness goal setting (ie "do this commute in at least 40% Eco"). Looks like the Nyon would give me the precision I need at least to analyze after the ride and see how close I came to the goal. I know there were a few threads in the forum on how to install/retrofit and possible warranty implications so I will have to go back and read those thoroughly. And the most interesting thing you informed me about are the custom modes. Because I too was thinking there was way too big of a gap between Eco and Tour. I honestly haven't used Turbo much at all. I bet I don't even have 1 mile of 850 miles accumulated in Turbo mode - and part of this I believe is because I don't have enough gear range with the Nuvinci N380. So whereas I don't feel Turbo has much value for me, I could really use a setting 1/2 way between Eco and Tour.
 

Matt A

Member
Wow. You answered my question and with extremely thorough detail. I saw it in the pics! I wanted to target mode percentages as part of my fitness goal setting (ie "do this commute in at least 40% Eco"). Looks like the Nyon would give me the precision I need at least to analyze after the ride and see how close I came to the goal. I know there were a few threads in the forum on how to install/retrofit and possible warranty implications so I will have to go back and read those thoroughly. And the most interesting thing you informed me about are the custom modes. Because I too was thinking there was way too big of a gap between Eco and Tour. I honestly haven't used Turbo much at all. I bet I don't even have 1 mile of 850 miles accumulated in Turbo mode - and part of this I believe is because I don't have enough gear range with the Nuvinci N380. So whereas I don't feel Turbo has much value for me, I could really use a setting 1/2 way between Eco and Tour.
I can give you some more information on installing it and the implications. This will be what I've heard from Bosch dealers.

When I installed my kit, it was quite easy. Because I was worried about messing with the wires, the first thing I did was slide off my Intuvia and slide on the Nyon to see what happened. Everything worked fine, the Intuvia thumb controller still worked for the Nyon, changing assistance levels and scrolling through the different screens. So technically that would be all you needed to do until you had time to attach the new Nyon thumb controller. You just need to unscrew the Intuvia controller wire on the back of the Bosch Holder, and screw in the Nyon controller.

It took me a while to really customize the readouts on the Nyon, I was too lazy and busy for a while. You asking questions about it is what made me do it. I actually like the Nyon even more now, I adjusted the screens and definitely enjoy seeing the gradient, current Wh usage, Avg Wh usage, Torque data, etc.

One important thing about the whole Odometer situation. If you remember from the pictures there was 3 different options for some sort of trip. So my Nyon gives me automatically a trip distance just for that one ride, and then on the home screen it gave an Overall Distance. The weird thing is, this 'Overall Distance' is just like a trip meter. The only difference is that it does not reset each day. I don't know how to reset the value, but I switched the readouts and now the Nyon does in fact display my true Odometer.

I just took a second to look at the bosch connect website real quick, and now I see why they do it that way. My Overall Distance on the front is what they call User total distance. Since the Nyon was newly fitted I guess, it believes you are a new user to an old used bike. So it gives you 'your' odometer, and then the bike's real odometer. I guess they just did this for people buying used bosch bikes.

Anyway, about the warranty. Technically, just placing a Nyon on your bike voids your warranty. This is quite stupid and unfair, but it is simple to get around it. Bosch will never have a clue you used a Nyon, you just need to keep your Intuvia around so in case you ever need a serious service where diagnostics are taken. The Bosch diagnostics will 100% not know that you have used a Nyon in the past. If you plug the Nyon into the diagnostic tool, Bosch will know that the shop plugged in a Nyon, but has no idea who's bike it's on. This I am speaking from out of experience. Of course the shop's don't want Bosch to know they serviced a Nyon, because they are not supposed to. The warranty issue would never be an issue as long as you keep or can get another Intuvia.

Changing the suspension on my bike will certainly void the warranty! Perhaps I will keep the Suntour and Fusion shock just in case:) But I was told by multiple people that the odds of a frame cracking or anything are smaller than winning the lottery, even for off road use. My girlfriend has the charger, and the top tube is much thinner. The aluminum on the Delite it much thicker everywhere, but especially the top tube where the Charger is literally half the thickness of the Delite. I assume this is because they wanted to make a super strong front triangle on the bike to support the suspension components. Losing the geometrical advantage of the diamond frame probably required more aluminum to strengthen the front triangle. But really, it looks like double the aluminum was used at least for the top tube.

While I have been learning a lot about bikes recently, I still am an amateur. I am curious what you mean when you say you do not have the gear range for Turbo to be useful. I too find that the high gear range is lacking a bit, and perhaps it's a problem with the whole drivetrain setup, but once the motor cuts out at 28, it is extremely difficult to push it past 32 without gravity. On a perfectly flat road, I've never been able to get passed 32 mph. Riding the bike without assist kind of sucks too. Not just for not having the motor, but the gears are just so weird feeling with no motor. I road for miles and over a bridge with no motor, and it is not fun at all. I was doing 5mph the whole way up the bridge lol.
 

Matt A

Member
Wow. You answered my question and with extremely thorough detail. I saw it in the pics! I wanted to target mode percentages as part of my fitness goal setting (ie "do this commute in at least 40% Eco"). Looks like the Nyon would give me the precision I need at least to analyze after the ride and see how close I came to the goal. I know there were a few threads in the forum on how to install/retrofit and possible warranty implications so I will have to go back and read those thoroughly. And the most interesting thing you informed me about are the custom modes. Because I too was thinking there was way too big of a gap between Eco and Tour. I honestly haven't used Turbo much at all. I bet I don't even have 1 mile of 850 miles accumulated in Turbo mode - and part of this I believe is because I don't have enough gear range with the Nuvinci N380. So whereas I don't feel Turbo has much value for me, I could really use a setting 1/2 way between Eco and Tour.
I see what you mean now with the gear ratio. You definitely feel that a higher gear in Turbo at 28mph would be better, in Tour it is better.

You can also track your fitness by watching the Wh/mi current and average usage. It resets for each ride and updates while riding so you can say for instant that you want to stay at 10 Wh/mi on average and keep track that way. you of course with the Nyon can track your watts and torque in real time as well as the averages of each. You have a lot of options to track your fitness
 

Over50

Well-Known Member
...The aluminum on the Delite it much thicker everywhere, but especially the top tube where the Charger is literally half the thickness of the Delite. I assume this is because they wanted to make a super strong front triangle on the bike to support the suspension components. Losing the geometrical advantage of the diamond frame probably required more aluminum to strengthen the front triangle. But really, it looks like double the aluminum was used at least for the top tube...I am curious what you mean when you say you do not have the gear range for Turbo to be useful...

The frames of the R&Ms do seem well put together and strong. People comment to me about the sturdiness of the Charger so they'd probably be really surprised to see the Delite. I guess the welds are always going to be the weak spots on any bike frame.

That gear ratio thing I had mentioned before: I don't have hills on my commute just a gradual grade change. On the way to work I am descending a bit and on the way home ascending. When I'm on an open stretch and have good pavement I run out of gear range and the only way to increase my speed is to increase the assist level. Its like using the assist level as another gear I guess. In fact, I have the shift suggestion thingy turned on in the Intuvia and sometimes it throws me the arrow to shift when I actually can't shift anymore. I've maxed out my gear range and the Intuvia is telling me to shift. On good pavement I feel like I have enough leg and lung power to get the bike to 28 with only Tour mode. But I don't have the gear range to get it there. I actually haven't hit 28 mph yet on this bike. My max is 27.5 and that was a slight ascension. If I am maxed out on gear and I up the assist to Turbo, I just feel like I'm spinning ridiculously fast. There were some suggestions on this forum and even my LBS mechanics suggested that maybe I could change the front or back rings to alter that ratio - but I haven't really explored that avenue yet.

A couple of the 2nd commuter bikes I am considering are 20 mph bikes. I'm really curious as to whether the higher torque motor and lighter bike but lower top speed might actually make my commute more efficient (given all the start/stop riding I have). I mentioned it before but very little of my total commute is spent at speeds over 20 mph. I have a couple of stretches where I get there but on those I'm usually cruising around 22-23 mph and never hitting the higher top speeds of 28 mph. On the commute home I sometimes keep the speed down a bit on the open stretches trying to stay right around 20 mph in order to conserve battery. I wish my area had a strong e-bike presence wherein I could borrower a bike for a day or two to test out on an actual 35 mile work commute. Its one thing to test ride a bike but totally another to sit on it for a couple of long rides over multiple days with your gear/wind etc.