Rize MD or RX?

strobukm

New Member
Region
USA
I need help finalizing my decision on which eBike to upgrade to this spring. Last year I rode a RadMission for about 1,000 miles, pulling my daughter in a trailer, and although the bike was fine for my purposes, the main drawback was the range. Even with a spare battery, I was only able to ride for about 45 miles total on level 2-3 pedal assist. Ideally, I'm looking to upgrade to something with a longer range for long weekend rides (maybe 60-70 miles) while pulling my 32 lb toddler in a trailer, that could also be used as a commuter bike during the workweek. I had gotten some advice from the forum a few months ago and narrowed down the proposed brands to Rize based on price, availability, range (due to the dual battery option), and other reviews, though I'm not sure between the MD and RX. In Minnesota, bikes must be "incapable of propelling faster than 20 miles per hour" and have a maximum of 1000 watts of power in order to ride on trails. I see that the MD can be configured for either Class 1 or 3, but the RX doesn't specifically list that ability. Does anyone know if the RX can be limited to 20 mph? It's unlikely that I'd be stopped since I ride at a leisurely pace on trails, but I'd still like to comply with the law. Our favorite route has some hills, about 1,500 feet of elevation gain, so not too bad. Would the extra power of the RX really be necessary at the expense of the additional range that I'd get with the lower-powered motor on the MD? The other main difference that I (who admittedly knows very little about bikes) noticed is that the MD has a cadence sensor and the RX has a torque sensor. Are the higher-powered motor and torque sensor really worth an extra $600? Are there other differences I'm not seeing that justify the increased cost? Any recommendations or advice would be greatly appreciated!
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
Do you still have your RadMission?

Sounds like the range was your only problem. You could just get a Reention Dorado DP9 from Jenny.
The DP9 will give you 48V 24.5Ah (instead of your stock 48V 10.5Ah)

Jenny has a really good review on EBR.

If you're not happy with 48V 24.5Ah, you can add rear rack battery to make it 48V 50+Ah
The rear rack battery looks something like this, I'd suggest you asking Jenny first though.

In addition, if your RadMission is still under warranty, I would hold off since anything aftermarket will void warranty.

Also, if you were to connect two battery packs, make sure to use dual battery converter.

Eunorau Dual Battery Conveter

WattWagons Dual Battery Conveter

Bolton Dual Battery Parallel Connector
 

strobukm

New Member
Region
USA
Do you still have your RadMission?

Sounds like the range was your only problem. You could just get a Reention Dorado DP9 from Jenny.
The DP9 will give you 48V 24.5Ah (instead of your stock 48V 10.5Ah)

Jenny has a really good review on EBR.

If you're not happy with 48V 24.5Ah, you can add rear rack battery to make it 48V 50+Ah
The rear rack battery looks something like this, I'd suggest you asking Jenny first though.

In addition, if your RadMission is still under warranty, I would hold off since anything aftermarket will void warranty.

Also, if you were to connect two battery packs, make sure to use dual battery converter.

Eunorau Dual Battery Conveter

WattWagons Dual Battery Conveter

Bolton Dual Battery Parallel Connector

I still have the RadMission, but there are a few other reasons that I'd like to upgrade that I failed to mention in my original post. I'd like a bike with a front suspension, and I'd like a bike that gives me the option to go faster than the 30 mph when I use it to get to work. It's also still under warranty, so I'd like to avoid making any changes that impact the warranty. Also, I already have a buyer lined up for the two RadMissions that we have. Your informations is still super helpful since I didn't realize that there was the option to modify the bike with after market batteries for longer range. I'll have to keep that in mind if I give up on upgrading and keep the RadMission afterall.


Just for discussion, the Rize bikes are big and heavy. The torque sensor is really wonderful, and worth a premium, but how much is up to you. The mid-drive motor is ludicrously powerful, but uses noticeably more battery than the hubs. I have two 2020 Rize bikes - a 750 Hub Rize X, and a 1000w Ultra-mid RX Pro both with 19Ah batteries and fat tires. Love them both but three key points that might measure into your decision, but keep in mind that I have not ridden the new 2022 models yet:

1. The 2022 Ultra (MD & RX) bikes will be roughly 80-90lbs respectively with the dual-battery option. The Rad Mission will be about 65lbs if you carry a second battery in a pannier or tail bag.
2. The Ultra Mid-drives cannot be pedaled effectively without power. The motor drag with power off/dead battery at low speeds is significant, and darn near impossible on long hills with a big load. Geared hubs usually have no drag unpowered (My 750W hub has none).
3. The range of my 750W hub over the mid is measurable, and somewhere near 40-50% more in my case with identical batteries. Add to the fact that it can be pedaled fine without power, and I consider it unlimited other than the increased weight of the bike. I dare not take my Ultra much beyond 50 miles (80kms) without 2x 19ah batteries, lest I risk a painful ride home. I am a big guy though.

If you like the mission, just get a second battery and maybe upgrade the rest of the bike to your liking as Timpo suggests. If you want to get something new, the Rize (750w hub) has a torque sensor, and with the dual battery option will have real potential for reliable 100+ mile range, and still get you home happily unpowered. It will come in about 75-80lbs with dual battery.

https://rizebikes.ca/products/rize

Thanks for all the information! After reading your advice, I'm really leaning toward the Rize model with the 500W hub drive and torque sensor. Your point on the ultra mid-drives not being easily pedaled without power made me rethink mid-drives. I don't need the extra torque they provide as I'm not running into a ton of hills and the added cost and maintenance don't seem worth it for my needs. I like the idea of the 750W motor on the Rize X, but don't want or need fat tires. Ideally, I think I'd like the Rize X with standard tires, but since that's not an option, the Rize looks like the next best thing. Well, either that or the City, although I'm not sure if I want an upright step-through.
 

ElevenAD

Well-Known Member
I still have the RadMission, but there are a few other reasons that I'd like to upgrade that I failed to mention in my original post. I'd like a bike with a front suspension, and I'd like a bike that gives me the option to go faster than the 30 mph when I use it to get to work. It's also still under warranty, so I'd like to avoid making any changes that impact the warranty. Also, I already have a buyer lined up for the two RadMissions that we have. Your informations is still super helpful since I didn't realize that there was the option to modify the bike with after market batteries for longer range. I'll have to keep that in mind if I give up on upgrading and keep the RadMission afterall.




Thanks for all the information! After reading your advice, I'm really leaning toward the Rize model with the 500W hub drive and torque sensor. Your point on the ultra mid-drives not being easily pedaled without power made me rethink mid-drives. I don't need the extra torque they provide as I'm not running into a ton of hills and the added cost and maintenance don't seem worth it for my needs. I like the idea of the 750W motor on the Rize X, but don't want or need fat tires. Ideally, I think I'd like the Rize X with standard tires, but since that's not an option, the Rize looks like the next best thing. Well, either that or the City, although I'm not sure if I want an upright step-through.
Riding to work at over 30mph is not likely to happen with a 500watt hub drive imo, i would buy an X or RX if you want to maintain speeds of 30mph.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
I still have the RadMission, but there are a few other reasons that I'd like to upgrade that I failed to mention in my original post. I'd like a bike with a front suspension, and I'd like a bike that gives me the option to go faster than the 30 mph when I use it to get to work. It's also still under warranty, so I'd like to avoid making any changes that impact the warranty. Also, I already have a buyer lined up for the two RadMissions that we have. Your informations is still super helpful since I didn't realize that there was the option to modify the bike with after market batteries for longer range. I'll have to keep that in mind if I give up on upgrading and keep the RadMission afterall.
Well front suspension is an easy add on, same as suspension seatpost (which I recommend).

If you want more power, you can easily get a Bolton kit. (also Electro Bike World has the same upgrade)

This one is made for RadRover and it will fit other Rad Power ebikes.
However, I am not sure what kind of motor connector RadMission has, does it have Z916 or Z910?
If it has Z916, then it will work.

35A controller will give you 1680W of max power.
(35A controller x 48V battery = 1680W)

If you go on YouTube, there are bunch of Rad Power bike owners with Bolton, Electro Bike World or Big Game Bikes 35A controller.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Just for discussion, the Rize bikes are big and heavy. The torque sensor is really wonderful, and worth a premium, but how much is up to you. The mid-drive motor is ludicrously powerful, but uses noticeably more battery than the hubs. I have two 2020 Rize bikes - a 750 Hub Rize X, and a 1000w Ultra-mid RX Pro both with 19Ah batteries and fat tires. Love them both but three key points that might measure into your decision, but keep in mind that I have not ridden the new 2022 models yet:

1. The 2022 Ultra (MD & RX) bikes will be roughly 80-90lbs respectively with the dual-battery option. The Rad Mission will be about 65lbs if you carry a second battery in a pannier or tail bag.
2. The Ultra Mid-drives cannot be pedaled effectively without power. The motor drag with power off/dead battery at low speeds is significant, and darn near impossible on long hills with a big load. Geared hubs usually have no drag unpowered (My 750W hub has none).
3. The range of my 750W hub over the mid is measurable, and somewhere near 40-50% more in my case with identical batteries. Add to the fact that it can be pedaled fine without power, and I consider it unlimited other than the increased weight of the bike. I dare not take my Ultra much beyond 50 miles (80kms) without 2x 19ah batteries, lest I risk a painful ride home. I am a big guy though.

If you like the mission, just get a second battery and maybe upgrade the rest of the bike to your liking as Timpo suggests. If you want to get something new, the Rize (750w hub) has a torque sensor, and with the dual battery option will have real potential for reliable 100+ mile range, and still get you home happily unpowered. It will come in about 75-80lbs with dual battery.

https://rizebikes.ca/products/rize
Sorry, though I agree with much of what you've said, the point in bold is in question on a properly functioning Bafang mid drive. I'm pretty sure the motors on these bikes stop turning exactly like a geared hub will (should). They use a very similar clutch internally. The motor should not cause drag when pedaled without power.

To add to the conversation, when comparing a small motor vs. big motor (regardless of drive type), all else being equal, the biggest difference will be clear when the smaller motor runs out of grunt and the bigger will keep right on accelerating - until IT runs out of grunt. If the 2 motors are cruising next to each other, let's say 10-12mph, they SHOULD be using very close to the same amount of power. In the situation where the small motor has run out of grunt and the big one keeps going, the reason the big motor is able to do that is because it CAN use more power if necessary. That call to do that is on you!

When it comes to pulling a trailer in the hills (especially one with a baby in it), I say damn the rules. You want the bigger motor. Reserve power never hurt anyone. If it's all about the range, get bigger batteries.
 

strobukm

New Member
Region
USA
Sorry, though I agree with much of what you've said, the point in bold is in question on a properly functioning Bafang mid drive. I'm pretty sure the motors on these bikes stop turning exactly like a geared hub will (should). They use a very similar clutch internally. The motor should not cause drag when pedaled without power.

To add to the conversation, when comparing a small motor vs. big motor (regardless of drive type), all else being equal, the biggest difference will be clear when the smaller motor runs out of grunt and the bigger will keep right on accelerating - until IT runs out of grunt. If the 2 motors are cruising next to each other, let's say 10-12mph, they SHOULD be using very close to the same amount of power. In the situation where the small motor has run out of grunt and the big one keeps going, the reason the big motor is able to do that is because it CAN use more power if necessary. That call to do that is on you!

When it comes to pulling a trailer in the hills (especially one with a baby in it), I say damn the rules. You want the bigger motor. Reserve power never hurt anyone. If it's all about the range, get bigger batteries.
Okay, now you've got me thinking that a bigger motor and bigger battery are what I want. What about a Biktrix Juggernaut Hub Duo? That one has a 750w motor, torque and cadence sensor, and a few options for a second battery.
 

theemartymac

Well-Known Member
Sorry, though I agree with much of what you've said, the point in bold is in question on a properly functioning Bafang mid drive. I'm pretty sure the motors on these bikes stop turning exactly like a geared hub will (should). They use a very similar clutch internally. The motor should not cause drag when pedaled without power.

To add to the conversation, when comparing a small motor vs. big motor (regardless of drive type), all else being equal, the biggest difference will be clear when the smaller motor runs out of grunt and the bigger will keep right on accelerating - until IT runs out of grunt. If the 2 motors are cruising next to each other, let's say 10-12mph, they SHOULD be using very close to the same amount of power. In the situation where the small motor has run out of grunt and the big one keeps going, the reason the big motor is able to do that is because it CAN use more power if necessary. That call to do that is on you!

When it comes to pulling a trailer in the hills (especially one with a baby in it), I say damn the rules. You want the bigger motor. Reserve power never hurt anyone. If it's all about the range, get bigger batteries.
We'll I'm going to have to dig a bit deeper on mine and find out if it's releasing as cleanly as it should, there is definitely more static resistance with it than my hub, which spins like a dream. And I've noticed a similar 'weight' another ultra I rode last summer. Some extra drag could be reducing my range too. But maybe I'm full of s*it, lol...
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
We'll I'm going to have to dig a bit deeper on mine and find out if it's releasing as cleanly as it should, there is definitely more static resistance with it than my hub, which spins like a dream. And I've noticed a similar 'weight' another ultra I rode last summer. Some extra drag could be reducing my range too. But maybe I'm full of s*it, lol...
I promised not to comment on anything related to tire size, but that thought does occur to me (rolling resistance). Easy to check to see if the motor is dragging. Power off, kickstand down, push the bike over until the rear tire clears the ground, then turn the crank by hand. That should tell you in short order. If you can feel the motor "cogging" due to the magnet's effect on the armature, something isn't right. If you can't feel that. it's working as designed....
 

BeltzerNYC

Member
Region
USA
Okay, now you've got me thinking that a bigger motor and bigger battery are what I want. What about a Biktrix Juggernaut Hub Duo? That one has a 750w motor, torque and cadence sensor, and a few options for a second battery.
I am actually between the Rize MD or the Jugg Duo Hub myself!

I definitely want 750w and dual batteries (my insurance only goes to 750 and I hear ultras can kill battery if not programmed right) but am torn between sticking with hub or going middrive. I do encounter hills, but I can run my daughter on the back up most with 500w so 750 be fine on hub. I always thought middrive was more efficient. I mainly hesitant about middrive because of shifting and using throttle. I use throttle from stop and go driving and usually keep high gear so I dunno if I will shift correctly.

My research into both seems to show Rize gets more range then the Biktrix, from what people say on FB forums. I live the Biktrix cuz it has 17.5 and 21 ah option as opposed to 15+15 but seems Rize has better controller.

I'd go for RX for the 52V but if u look at range on their site the same 30ah gets less range then the MD.
 

john peck

Well-Known Member
Do you still have your RadMission?

Sounds like the range was your only problem. You could just get a Reention Dorado DP9 from Jenny.
The DP9 will give you 48V 24.5Ah (instead of your stock 48V 10.5Ah)

Jenny has a really good review on EBR.

If you're not happy with 48V 24.5Ah, you can add rear rack battery to make it 48V 50+Ah
The rear rack battery looks something like this, I'd suggest you asking Jenny first though.

In addition, if your RadMission is still under warranty, I would hold off since anything aftermarket will void warranty.

Also, if you were to connect two battery packs, make sure to use dual battery converter.

Eunorau Dual Battery Conveter

WattWagons Dual Battery Conveter

Bolton Dual Battery Parallel Connector
Useful information. I rigged to carry 2 batteries, but I have to use ´em one at a time. As it is,
I can get close to 60 mi with a 13Ah dorado in warm weather. that´s mostly pedal assist
 

john peck

Well-Known Member
Do you still have your RadMission?

Sounds like the range was your only problem. You could just get a Reention Dorado DP9 from Jenny.
The DP9 will give you 48V 24.5Ah (instead of your stock 48V 10.5Ah)

Jenny has a really good review on EBR.

If you're not happy with 48V 24.5Ah, you can add rear rack battery to make it 48V 50+Ah
The rear rack battery looks something like this, I'd suggest you asking Jenny first though.

In addition, if your RadMission is still under warranty, I would hold off since anything aftermarket will void warranty.

Also, if you were to connect two battery packs, make sure to use dual battery converter.

Eunorau Dual Battery Conveter

WattWagons Dual Battery Conveter

Bolton Dual Battery Parallel Connector
Useful information. I rigged to carry 2 batteries, but I have to use ´em one at a time. As it is,
I can get close to 60 mi with a 13Ah dorado in warm weather. that´s mostly pedal assist