Say Hello to Stunner?

George S.

Well-Known Member
stunner.png




Aluminum
Mid-drive
Shimano rear gears
Cute name that no one seems to be using. (Honda has a Stunner in India, small MC)

Add up the parts. Tell me how they are doing it?

Will any of these guys have their name on the titles, so to speak, when they come into the US? Or will they ship direct from a factory in China to customers? (The 'leak' theory?)

The Storm thread is getting a bit long, but either way.
 

pxpaulx

Well-Known Member
How are they doing it? Good question - free bike with motor and battery purchase?

I'd been keeping up with that storm thread for a few days (it is overly aggressive and a little exhausting though to be honest), super happy to see this biktrix pop up.

I already have a bikes direct fat bike (boris x7) that I was wanting to do a conversion on - had just read that em3ev now has a rear motor with longer axle that will fit my fatbike rear drop out. I really wanted to put a mid drive on it, but the only options are too expensive - lightning rods or the conversion kit from california ebikes (when I already also own a neo xtrem ebike that wasn't cheap). I figured I could source a battery for myself and get the motor/controller from em3ev for about $1K - and then this bike shows up! Seriously considering it.

I will need to see more details though, hopefully the rear cassette can be swapped for a 10spd, as I really like having that range on my fat bike currently, even if I can't this bike looks close to a no brainer. Wonder if they'll be charging separate shipping with such a low price?
 

Lenny

Well-Known Member
Here's what Ronald Roberts (editor of Electricbike.com) has to say about this.
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This is a good deal, and here's why. The battery is too small, but...you can easily add a bigger battery, or add a battery in parallel to extend range and ease up on the C-rate (Current) that is drawn from each cell.

If this bike was 36V, it would be a major change-over to go to 48V, but...at $800 you are starting out at 48V. I can't emphasize enough how important that is. If any of you get one of these, I recommend you use the stock computer to limit the amps to 20A so that the stock battery will last a decent amount of time.

I dont like LiPo batteries for new enthusiasts (if you want to add or swap-in a different one), so if you want high current in a small package, there is a link at the bottom of this post on the available high-current cells, with em3ev.com being the best option right now. However, be aware, quality and performance costs extra.

If you commit to buying 20 units or so...you can get BBS02s for $300 or so. A small generic lithium-Ion battery pack might be another $200 (if you buy a bunch of them and pay cash up front). The bike would have to be $200, which is actually realistic when you are talking about a mass-produced item from China. That still leaves $100 to make it worth the effort. The $100 is not profit, it is needed to start a business

After the start-up is done, this bike would still be a deal at $975-$1275. There are customer warranty claims to handle, monthly lease on the building, liability insurance, the monthly electric bill, advertising, and there is always that evil and nasty "profit" to consider, but...companies that don't make a profit, they will quickly go out of business. I wouldn't do this if there was no profit in it, would you?

You can buy something similar right now for $2,000...and that is not evil, but...this new competitor is just that...competition!

https://www.electricbike.com/high-current-batteries-not-lipo/

If these guys are going to provide a good product that is in demand, and do so with a thinner profit margin? I want them to succeed.
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George S.

Well-Known Member
The information on the Stunner is a little hard to find. I don't think they mention the 48v on the single promo page at coming soon tech. I assume everyone is holding back until the announcement is official.

What Roberts says about transitioning this bike from a developmental crowdfund site to a real retail product is the thing that matters. He's talking $1300 with some support and warranty, and that is a great price. It's going to be tough to tell first timers to buy off a crowd fund site. I think Roshan/Biktrix have some real credentials and a successful campaign behind them, if they do the IGG campaign. Hopefully they will stay away from the Agency 2.0 stuff. (I guess Storm could offer a retail product, or just endorse a retail version, at the end of his campaign.)

We're seeing honest numbers all of a sudden. The BBS 02 is $300 if you can handle a direct Chinese supplier and some quantity. The battery is, well, whatever you want to spend. Right now, it is tough to get name brand cells in a pack for a good price. So for $200 you are rolling the dice. Those are definitely the core components.

A fat bike is a somewhat premium product. A mid-drive is more money than a basic hub. I like the idea you could take a basic but proven bike, the stuff you see on bikes direct for $300 or so. Add a simpler hub motor for less than $100. Then find the best battery you can. What does that add up to?
 

pxpaulx

Well-Known Member
I have a bikes direct Boris x7 fat bike, very nice for the $700 they are asking...at minimum for fat from them your looking at five hundred for the gravity, which many are happy with over at mtbr.

It is adding the motor and battery that are going to get spendy! From Paul at em3ev depending on battery you well be at around twelve hundred after shipping...good news is he now has a rear fat axle option.

Lightning rods seems like the best mid drive option, but after adding a battery you'd probably be at eighteen hundred to two grand.

In the end, I might just end up with this bike and keep the Boris too.
 

roshan

Well-Known Member
Hi guys!

I'm happy to see curiosity around the Stunner.

I can clarify a few things that can help:
- The BBS02 on the Stunner will be a 36V system - note that a 36V 500W mid drive is usually plenty for most ebikers.
- Biktrix will never ship directly from a factory/manufacturing facility in China -> Not unless we become like Apple and control every step of QA. We tried shipping direct once and will never do it again.
- We will always offer warranty/support to all our buyers and/or dealers
- We're not using LiPo yet. LiPo is great for the power punch it packs. That said, even the most experienced RC guys know that LiPo is just too dangerous for the general public. Mobile phones get away with using LiPo because of their tiny size - largest being 3.4V, 3200mAh.
- The Stunner will be equipped with generic 18650 cells tested for at least 500 charge cycles. We will offer an upgrade to Samsung NCR18650 cells if people want that!

One of the biggest things - as much as we are inclined toward a fat ebike, we're still in the planning stages. The Stunner could turn out to be a speedy commuter or even a cruiser. Time will tell. Soon.
 

wa5

Well-Known Member
I note with interest this bike also claims a 90 minute charge...

So a Question. is this an Average Charge .. IE not from dead flat.. are suppliers quoting this number in good faith.. or are they being optimistic?
 

roshan

Well-Known Member
I note with interest this bike also claims a 90 minute charge...

So a Question. is this an Average Charge .. IE not from dead flat.. are suppliers quoting this number in good faith.. or are they being optimistic?
Most batteries out there can charge up to 90% in 90 mins. The BMS cuts off the battery at 15% which means you're essentially only charging the battery from 15% to 100%. In 90 mins it would charge about 90% with a 3A charger.
 

wa5

Well-Known Member
Perhaps there's parts of this that I don't understand (I am a long way from being an expert, but have hear / read of considerably longer charging times?
 

George S.

Well-Known Member
Hi guys!

I'm happy to see curiosity around the Stunner.

I can clarify a few things that can help:
- The BBS02 on the Stunner will be a 36V system - note that a 36V 500W mid drive is usually plenty for most ebikers.
- Biktrix will never ship directly from a factory/manufacturing facility in China -> Not unless we become like Apple and control every step of QA. We tried shipping direct once and will never do it again.
- We will always offer warranty/support to all our buyers and/or dealers
- We're not using LiPo yet. LiPo is great for the power punch it packs. That said, even the most experienced RC guys know that LiPo is just too dangerous for the general public. Mobile phones get away with using LiPo because of their tiny size - largest being 3.4V, 3200mAh.
- The Stunner will be equipped with generic 18650 cells tested for at least 500 charge cycles. We will offer an upgrade to Samsung NCR18650 cells if people want that!

One of the biggest things - as much as we are inclined toward a fat ebike, we're still in the planning stages. The Stunner could turn out to be a speedy commuter or even a cruiser. Time will tell. Soon.

Roshan,

Not sure where you (and your brother) might end up if you stay in the business for a while. China gets better at what they do. But labor costs will rise. I asked Sam Sewell of Dillenger whether they weren’t really in more of a quality assurance business, trying to juggle Chinese suppliers. Eventually there are more things you can do locally, even if it is just stuffing the parts you know are good onto bike frames. I like it when people say they will try to create as many jobs as possible, locally (US, Canada, Australia, wherever). People have to have enough income to buy the e bikes.

Right now, in the US, a big slice of the market is the step-through, sold to people about my age. The Fat market is hard to understand. I basically think bikes get their identity from the tires, and a two inch half-knobby tread covers a lot of ground, literally and figuratively. If anything, the Sondo bike is a very quirky design with some obvious shortcomings. There has to be more of a market for e bikes with greater capability. The PR guy who responds to questions (I guess he is paid by Sondors) said the other day that e bikes are NOT designed to climb hill after hill, something like that, which is incredibly uninformed.

It would be nice to see a solid commuter bike that an out of shape person could ride on a typical commute. Not too flashy, but solid and at a good price.

I can’t figure the lith poly thing. It’s clearly more dangerous, but it’s showing up as the chemistry on a lot of packs. Maybe the electronics are a lot better, and maybe they’ve made adjustments.


I think Sondors is making his share of mistakes. You might as well learn something from them, if you are going down the crowdfund path.
 

wa5

Well-Known Member
One of the things that attracted me to the Sondors was the tyres. sure, to me they look good, the whole bike does IMHO, but that's not the main thing. because the tyres and rims are wider, I perceive them as stronger, and since I am a heavier bloke. around 280 pounds .. the idea of rims that wont go out of true and need a trip to the bike shop all the time.. is attractive to me.. I'd be interested to know how many storm customers have the same idea... So basically as George Says.. a lot of people are after a strong sensible commuter as a good price.
 

Gus

Active Member
Stunner > Storm

Give it 65mm rims so I can go fat or skinny, 135mm/135mm so I can use standard hubs, brazeons front and rear to mount racks and then shut up and take my money.
 

roshan

Well-Known Member
Currently Biktrix is focusing on delivering Juggernauts. They are due delivery in April. Once they are delivered, the Stunner project will resume. There's more fun stuff to come: