Selling a Bosch Performace cx 4 bike for a Mahle x35+ bike

Ektorp

Member
Region
Europe
City
Olbia,Sardinia.
Good morning and thanks for accepting me in this fine forum.

I'm currently riding a Canyon Grail : On , a bike I'm very happy about . It allowes me to ride virtually anywhere and conquer the steepest terrains. But here lies the problem : since I've bought the bike ( october 2020) I'd say out of 3700 kms rode so far maybe an excess of 250kms have been spent on gravel. Basically, I'm a road bike kind of guy. I've decided to buy a gravel bike since I've became extremely scared of road traffic few years ago.
The bike I'm looking at right now, a bike that would allow me to go back to road riding, is a Scott Addict eride with a mahle x35 motor.

Let's now get down to my rider and riding profile :

-Canyon grail On, most use on roads and assistance modes used 99% of the times are Eco and Tour.
-I like to pedal with a good amount of agility, I don't like to be shuttled up the hills, but at the same time at 49 with family and a busy schedule I don't like to go back home and feel hammered for days.
-Pivotal : I like to monitor my heart rate. I don't have any medical condition about it, I just don't want to push my limits of my future health and again I want to go back home feeling with the right amount of tiredness, but not feeling badly beaten.
-I'm in a fairly good shape. Been riding for 15 years now, my rides are short and punchy, I'm not after long marathons and climbs anymore, My ideal rides are 30/45 kms with about 500/700 meters of climbs and I like to go fast. The Grail : On with it's 16.5 kgs allowes me to do these type of rides at an average speed of 26/27 kms/hours.
-After an aggressive ride, I usually need about 2 or 3 days of rest to feel ready to go out again. This year between Covid and family duties I've basically rode my bike once every 3 days.

So, all in all, do you think I may be the right canditate for a Mahle x35 bike or you think my Grail : On can cover it all ? Also the Scott addict basically loses 5kgs of weight to the Grail : on.


Thank you all for chiming in with your suggestions or experiences.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
A Specialized Creo SL? One of the most lightweight mid-drive motor road e-bikes in the market. The SL 1.1 motor is as powerful as the x35 but it is a mid-drive and you gain from your drive-train gearing. The 320 Wh battery is internal, and you can expand it with 160 Wh (water bottle shaped) Range Extenders.
 

Ektorp

Member
Region
Europe
City
Olbia,Sardinia.
A Specialized Creo SL? One of the most lightweight mid-drive motor road e-bikes in the market. The SL 1.1 motor is as powerful as the x35 but it is a mid-drive and you gain from your drive-train gearing. The 320 Wh battery is internal, and you can expand it with 160 Wh (water bottle shaped) Range Extenders.
Unfortunately I don’t have a Specy dealer nearby. I could order one in mainland ( I live on a island) but honestly I want to give business to my LBS,and they carry Scott. They always took care of me. Also,I’ve had plenty of Specialized in my life,enough…
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
OK, Ektorp, I do understand.
What is the real reason you want to replace a mid-drive, full power, pretty lightweight gravel e-bike with a hub-drive, low power, and even more lightweight road e-bike? You would probably not experience as natural ride with the Scott as you're getting it from Canyon? Perhaps just another wheel-set would convert your Canyon into a real road e-bike?
 
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Ektorp

Member
Region
Europe
City
Olbia,Sardinia.
Main thing I usually buy a new bike every two years, but the real need here is to go back on road riding after 4 years of gravel bikes. Since I don’t go out as much as I used to I can pick weekends for riding,when roads are totally empty here. But the Grail is such an amazing machine and yes, I could probably turn into a full road bike. Tires are huge tho,50mm,while most roadish 29 tires are 40,45. Waiting for the market to develop…
 

retiredNH

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Main thing I usually buy a new bike every two years, but the real need here is to go back on road riding after 4 years of gravel bikes. Since I don’t go out as much as I used to I can pick weekends for riding,when roads are totally empty here. But the Grail is such an amazing machine and yes, I could probably turn into a full road bike. Tires are huge tho,50mm,while most roadish 29 tires are 40,45. Waiting for the market to develop…
So why not just put new tires on your grail? Should be easy to find tires that fit that have a road tread. Ebikes don't have the same lighter, narrower tires as analog bikes. They're heavier, after all. But I'd suggest that with an ebike, differences in tire weight matter less too.
 

Nomad

Well-Known Member
you buy a new bike every couple years so reguardless you would be looking at a new bike anyway maybe keep the Grail for gravel and the other bike can be a deicated road bike:)
 

Ektorp

Member
Region
Europe
City
Olbia,Sardinia.
you buy a new bike every couple years so reguardless you would be looking at a new bike anyway maybe keep the Grail for gravel and the other bike can be a deicated road bike:)
Yeah that's also the point too. Do I really have to ? I'm not single anymore and I truly like my Grail wich is basically brand new. I just miss the pure road bike sensations. Speed,narrow tires,total connection to the road. I've had my mechanic place me a racing bar tape on the grail as I'm basically totally disconnected from tarmac given those huge tires.
 

Deacon Blues

Well-Known Member
I'll second retiredNH's recommendation to install a set of narrower, fast, road tires and see if it changes how you feel when riding your Grail.
It's a MUCH smaller outlay of cash and may do the trick.
If you still want to sell your Grail and buy the Addict you can put the gravel tires back on the Grail and keep your newly purchased road tires for your new Addict.
 

Ektorp

Member
Region
Europe
City
Olbia,Sardinia.
I'll second retiredNH's recommendation to install a set of narrower, fast, road tires and see if it changes how you feel when riding your Grail.
It's a MUCH smaller outlay of cash and may do the trick.
If you still want to sell your Grail and buy the Addict you can put the gravel tires back on the Grail and keep your newly purchased road tires for your new Addict.
Smart idea but I can’t go narrow on the Grail. At that point aesthetics come in and the bike would make no sense in its look . I need to go road tires but they have to be 50mm. The bike is a freaking SUV.
 
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retiredNH

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Smart idea but I can’t go narrow on the Grail. At that point aesthetics come in and the bike would make no sense in its look . I need to go road tires but they have to be 50mm. The bike is a freaking SUV.
The "look"? Oh. I thought you had a functional, performance issue. My bad. I guess not. Do they make white side walls for your bike?
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
Ektorp,
I have discussed the matters with my friend, an experienced road peloton and gravel cyclist. His opinion is Scott Addict eRide is a beautiful e-bike, good for both the road and gravel roles. He confirmed the Canyon looked a SUV for him. However, there are two points to discuss:
  • Canyon would behave more like a road e-bike if you just replaced the tyres with the 32 mm road ones. Yes, aesthetically, Canyon would still look big, but not dramatically bad
  • Scott looks like a road e-bike although it is presented with gravel tyres in the promotional material. It is extremely clean in the design, and it has a double chainring.
However, there is something that makes me surprised you want to trade the Canyon for the Scott. The point is, the ride feeling on a mid drive e-bike is very natural. With Mahle x35 system, you would be "pushed" by preset assistance levels, 100% of predefined assistance for each PAS level. It is a very binary feeling. Let's say you ride in Eco. With x35, the assistance and your own effort come to equilibrium, and you actually ride at constant speed as resulting from that equilibrium. While the mid-drive motor adjusts to your effort. If you want to ride slower, you just ride slower. If you push hard, the mid-motor will respond with more power.

With a mid-motor, you become a Superman.
With a hub-motor you are "pushed by wind".
Two different philosophies.

Please consider my opinion.
 
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WattsUpDude

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
San Francisco, Bay Area
Ebikemotion X35 uses a speed sensor paired to a cadence sensor. It’s actually very good for a cadence sensor bike but not anywhere as good as what you have now. So if you like an eBike that feels like a bike, keep the Grail :On. You already have a super nice bike. In this case, the grass is not greener on the other side, IMO.
 

Ektorp

Member
Region
Europe
City
Olbia,Sardinia.
Ektorp,
I have discussed the matters with my friend, an experienced road peloton and gravel cyclist. His opinion is Scott Addict eRide is a beautiful e-bike, good for both the road and gravel roles. He confirmed the Canyon looked a SUV for him. However, there are two points to discuss:
  • Canyon would behave more like a road e-bike if you just replaced the tyres with the 32 mm road ones. Yes, aesthetically, Canyon would still look big, but not dramatically bad
  • Scott looks like a road e-bike although it is presented with gravel tyres in the promotional material. It is extremely clean in the design, and it has a double chainring.
However, there is something that makes me surprised you want to trade the Canyon for the Scott. The point is, the ride feeling on a mid drive e-bike is very natural. With Mahle x35 system, you would be "pushed" by preset assistance levels, 100% of predefined assistance for each PAS level. It is a very binary feeling. Let's say you ride in Eco. With x35, the assistance and your own effort come to equilibrium, and you actually ride at constant speed as resulting from that equilibrium. While the mid-drive motor adjusts to your effort. If you want to ride slower, you just ride slower. If you push hard, the mid-motor will respond with more power.

With a mid-motor, you become a Superman.
With a hub-motor you are "pushed by wind".
Two different philosophies.

Please consider my opinion.
Stefan,

I've probably read a hundreds reviews about the X35 online but none of them were as clear and simple like yours. Looks like I will be keeping my Grail : on and wait for technology to go smaller on mid engines. Even Fazua at this point may be a valid alternative.
 
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Ektorp

Member
Region
Europe
City
Olbia,Sardinia.
The "look"? Oh. I thought you had a functional, performance issue. My bad. I guess not. Do they make white side walls for your bike?
They do but I would never consider any of those. I like my bikes to stay oem as much as possible. The reason I've chose that bike over another one it's because I fell in love with every single part and look of it.
 
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Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
Ektorp,
One of my e-bikes (which I currently do not use as I lent it to a friend for his commutes) is equipped with a 250 W hub-drive motor (and a large battery). I cannot say I was unhappy with that e-bike: it was a perfect commuter. Equipped with generic Chinese electronics the e-bike is virtually derestricted but due to the nature of the motor it can hardly exceed 32 km/h. If I needed a commuter e-bike, I would be still riding it. Fancy that: You set PAS level 3/5 and you are guaranteed to travel at 30 km/h (if no headwind). So you know when you get at work and you are not particularly tired even.

The issue is that e-bike cannot ride really slow! For instance, I go for an excursion with my older traditional cycling friend. He can cruise at 18-20 km/h. I cannot ride the hub-drive as slow as him even in PAS 1/5! While my mid-motors let me crawl even at 4 km/h. Why should they? A hiking/bike trail in a forest, and a narrow and long wooden ramp over marshes. A lot of hikers on that narrow trail. Once, I had to ride at a walking speed... and could do that!
 

Ektorp

Member
Region
Europe
City
Olbia,Sardinia.
Here is my Grail. Thanks everyone for the kind advices
2411DC06-568A-4689-855D-CAA9A1E974D7.jpeg
 

Deacon Blues

Well-Known Member
Ektorp, I have the same motor on my Cannondale Topstone Neo Lefty 3 (gravel bike), and I love it (motor and bike).
Mine came with 37mm tires, but I upgraded them to 47mm when I bought and installed a set of carbon wheels.
The roads where I live are far from smooth, so the extra cushioning from the wider tires is appreciated.