Selling my Superdelite Rohloff HS 2020 - What is a reasonable price?

byunbee

Well-Known Member
What makes iDWorx Tour bike a more capable bike than what you already have with the R&M? Is it the battery range you're worried about? If so, wouldn't it be more economical to just purchase another set of batteries to carry with you? R&M SuperDelite is an expensive buyer's remorse bike... I would think it's more than capable for what you need. But maybe I'm missing something obvious?
 

Akrotiri

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
Good luck with an EU spec drive unit and battery in the case something goes wrong in the US. Bosch will refuse any kind of warranty or service on that.
Source?

The batteries are the same. And the speed motors are available in Europe and the US.
 

Squaxor

Active Member
What makes iDWorx Tour bike a more capable bike than what you already have with the R&M? Is it the battery range you're worried about? If so, wouldn't it be more economical to just purchase another set of batteries to carry with you? R&M SuperDelite is an expensive buyer's remorse bike... I would think it's more than capable for what you need. But maybe I'm missing something obvious?

You make excellent points, however in my case I’m going back to an unpowered bicycle rather than purchasing an alternative eBike. Unfortunately I’m not affluent enough to own two expensive cycles - the wife would have something to say about that.

Having cycled 900 kilometres in the last month, on my superdelite, has given me a desire to go on longer and more remote bike tours that will involve wild camping. I’ll sometimes be in countries that have dodgy electricity, such as Nepal.

When I bought the Superdelite I loved the idea I could go further, higher and faster. I’ve certainly enjoyed that aspect of an eBike on my UK rides. But for me I’ve decided prefer slow and simpler travel.

With a touring bike I’m I won’t need to worry about charging my batteries, carrying a charger and the increased chance of a breakdown. Also I can’t take my Superdelite on the plane, as batteries are classified as hazardous.

There’s also the weight of the bike. My R&M weighs 32.5Kg. My new bike will be 15.6kg. It’s just a lot easier to have a bike that isn’t so heavy such as lifting over fences, taking it upstairs in a B&B etc.

There’s also the issue of the diminished feeling of achievement; When I reached my destination on by eBike the feeling was slightly marred by the fact that it hadn’t been entirely my effort. It’s certainly a trivial thing, but I think I prefer the illogical “purity” of the entirely self-powered trip.

eBikes are fantastic and I’ll certainly buy one again once we return to commuting . It gets me off public transport and provides an opportunity for exercise and allows me to ride 40km to work in all weather.
 

User54

Member
Source?

The batteries are the same. And the speed motors are available in Europe and the US.
The US Batteries and the drive units have a different Bosch internal article number and slightly different Software. As soon as there is a problem Bosch will request a diagnostic report and see the article numbers. Bosch USA does not service these units. I have seen and handled a few of these cases and the result of the end of the day was that Bosch moved 0cm from its standpoint and the customer either has to go back to where he got the product or write the bike off.
If you want further sources you can send me a pm
 

Akrotiri

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
The US Batteries and the drive units have a different Bosch internal article number and slightly different Software. As soon as there is a problem Bosch will request a diagnostic report and see the article numbers. Bosch USA does not service these units. I have seen and handled a few of these cases and the result of the end of the day was that Bosch moved 0cm from its standpoint and the customer either has to go back to where he got the product or write the bike off.
If you want further sources you can send me a pm
The batteries and drive units definitely are the same. You're mostly incorrect.

I purchased my Trek Allant 8s in NY,USA.

I shipped it here to Greece without the battery but ofcourse with the motor and every other component because my freight forwarder would not allow me to ship the battery for obvious hazards.

I purchased a brand new Bosch 625 battery from E-bikes4you.com which is in Germany. I had my local LBS put my bike back together including the new battery and I have already ridden 300 miles and there is no compatibility problem at all. All my info on my Bosch smartphone hub was and is still there, like my mileage and what not. Perhaps you might be correct about a warranty issue but Bosch's warranty is not lifetime anyway; it's 2 years. Hopefully I won't need to make a warranty claim within the next 18 months. One thing is for sure I can simply purchase a new Bosch motor for 750 euro if it comes to that one day. Not the end of the world for me considering the miles of smiles my e-bike hobby has been for me.

Are you claiming Bosch EU would refuse to repair or replace my motor even if I offered to pay full price and labor without making a warranty claim? I doubt that to be the case.

The only software differences are minor things such as the USA smartphone hub lacking the electric horn that the euro spec one has.
I’ve added pics of my Allant in NYC(first photo) and my most recent ride this morning in Greece.

Post your further sources in the thread since it's relative to the OP. He's trying to find a buyer and being able to sell it in the US benefits him.
 

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User54

Member
The batteries and drive units definitely are the same. You're mostly incorrect.

I purchased my Trek Allant 8s in NY,USA.

I shipped it here to Greece without the battery but ofcourse with the motor and every other component because my freight forwarder would not allow me to ship the battery for obvious hazards.

I purchased a brand new Bosch 625 battery from E-bikes4you.com which is in Germany. I had my local LBS put my bike back together including the new battery and I have already ridden 300 miles and there is no compatibility problem at all. All my info on my Bosch smartphone hub was and is still there, like my mileage and what not. Perhaps you might be correct about a warranty issue but Bosch's warranty is not lifetime anyway; it's 2 years. Hopefully I won't need to make a warranty claim within the next 18 months. One thing is for sure I can simply purchase a new Bosch motor for 750 euro if it comes to that one day. Not the end of the world for me considering the miles of smiles my e-bike hobby has been for me.

Are you claiming Bosch EU would refuse to repair or replace my motor even if I offered to pay full price and labor without making a warranty claim? I doubt that to be the case.

The only software differences are minor things such as the USA smartphone hub lacking the electric horn that the euro spec one has.
I’ve added pics of my Allant in NYC(first photo) and my most recent ride this morning in Greece.

Post your further sources in the thread since it's relative to the OP. He's trying to find a buyer and being able to sell it in the US benefits him.
Nobody ever talked about a compatibility issue, it is a warranty issue. If, and you should put a huge question Mark behind that if, you could purchase a new drive unit. It would be completely worthless to you or your dealer, as drive units need a programming towards the bike and it’s derailleur. This is something only the manufacturer can do.

Bosch refuses the repair drive units in a geographical region they do not belong to.

the battery is actually minor different, as the US version has a UL certification, the EU version doesn’t. The EU version has a different charging protocol compared to the US version.

The US spec HS drive unit has no type approval for the EU market and slightly longer support before it reduces the power going towards 28mp/h.

Neither the US nor the EU Smartphone Hub have a Horn assist. What you may be meaning is COBI which is not available in the US and has a built in Horn.
The US HS versions can be overridden from 75Nm to 85Nm the European drive units cannot.


Btw what your smartphone hub shows you as Information is only a tip of the iceberg of information a dealer or a manufacturer and Bosch can see.

To come back to the opener of this thread and a suggested price. Take off about 30-40% from the new price, that’s kind of a region a used bike without warranty is at.
 

Akrotiri

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
Nobody ever talked about a compatibility issue, it is a warranty issue. If, and you should put a huge question Mark behind that if, you could purchase a new drive unit. It would be completely worthless to you or your dealer, as drive units need a programming towards the bike and it’s derailleur. This is something only the manufacturer can do.

Bosch refuses the repair drive units in a geographical region they do not belong to.

the battery is actually minor different, as the US version has a UL certification, the EU version doesn’t. The EU version has a different charging protocol compared to the US version.

The US spec HS drive unit has no type approval for the EU market and slightly longer support before it reduces the power going towards 28mp/h.

Neither the US nor the EU Smartphone Hub have a Horn assist. What you may be meaning is COBI which is not available in the US and has a built in Horn.
The US HS versions can be overridden from 75Nm to 85Nm the European drive units cannot.


Btw what your smartphone hub shows you as Information is only a tip of the iceberg of information a dealer or a manufacturer and Bosch can see.

To come back to the opener of this thread and a suggested price. Take off about 30-40% from the new price, that’s kind of a region a used bike without warranty is at.

Many of your points are either wrong or outdated.

Bosch offers retrofit kits for the Nyon,kiox,smartphone hub,purion and intuvia for existing ebikes now which renders your point moot. BTW, I wasn't aware that my 100% mechanical derailleur (perhaps you meant hub) and my "bike" was able to communicate with the internet, lol.

You have no source or refuse to give an example where Bosch would refuse a repair of a drive unit located in a different geographical region.

Again no source that the HS US speed unit gives longer support before it reduces power going to 28mph.

US and EU batteries have different charging protocols... yea no kidding lol; I guess it's a fancy way of saying the US uses 110v and the EU uses 230v charging outputs.

Simple semantics about the E-horn, you know what I meant and Cobi is owned by Bosch and COBI is most definitely available in the US since I have COBI and purchased my ebike in the USA. You contradicted yourself.

All bosch e-bike motors for model year 2021 are 85nm in Europe as well where applicable. Again your point is out
dated/obsolete and no longer correct.

Btw, all that extra info on my smartphone hub I have access to and see during my tours and I enjoy them very much thank you.

I think you took a lot of things too literally during your time working for Bosch. May I ask why you don't work there anymore?

There's a Bosch manufacturer section which is often visited by current Bosch employees,why don't you ask there and prove yourself correct and prove me wrong?

Oh and as Americans correctly point out from time to time is if it's online it can be hacked. ;)
 
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Alaskan

Well-Known Member
I think you took a lot of things too literally during your time working for Bosch. May I ask why you don't work there anymore?
I realize that generalizations are just that, not always fair or applicable. That said, I think what we are looking at here is the cultural difference between Germans and Americans. Germans tend to look at laws, rules and policies more rigidly than do Americans. Germans tend more toward obeying the laws and following corporate policies. Americans see rules and policies as suggestions to be largely ignored or worked around, where and if you can get away with it. Neither one is right. It is just a cultural difference. As an American with a lifelong proclivity for German transportation and optical equipment, I have learned to deal with and accept this difference for what it is.
 

Akrotiri

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
bl

I realize that generalizations are just that, not always fair or applicable. That said, I think what we are looking at here is the cultural difference between Germans and Americans. Germans tend to look at laws, rules and policies more rigidly than do Americans. Germans tend more toward obeying the laws and following corporate policies. Americans see rules and policies as suggestions to be largely ignored or worked around, where and if you can get away with it. Neither one is right. It is just a cultural difference. As an American with a lifelong proclivity for German transportation and optical equipment, I have learned to deal with and accept this difference for what it is.
I don't mind the difference and I never take things personal. Variety is the spice of life.

German corporations generally follow the rules yes, except for that whole Volkswagen emission scandal (which Bosch manufactured the software), and of course Siemens, and Wirecard and also Deutsche Bank but that's it right? Atleast the ones we know about. But a few big ones nonetheless just in the last 3 years...

That being said he speaks with conviction but many of his points aren't applicable anymore especially when it comes to hub retrofitting. He hasn't said in what capacity he's worked in the e-bike industry. I'm dual citizen of the US and Greece two countries whose citizens see rules and policies much like you described, no argument from me there.

And again we don't know what his professional background actually is because he hasn't said specifically in what capacity he claims to know what he states on the forums as fact. Actually just this thread as he is a new member with 3 posts and all in this thread. Interesting no?
 
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User54

Member
If you really want to know my profession, ask Chris from Propel or Court, they know who I am and what I deal with all day.

i guess rating the Experience by amount of answers in this forum shows how creditable a conversion partner is.


I have been in contact with many people having exactly the problems I am warning of here and my intention is mainly to use this forum to help people avoid doing this mistake.
I know that many people think EBikes are like bicycles and bicycles are simple, well it would be nice if it was this way, but as most of you know eBikes are much more complex and believe me they are closer to motorbikes than to bikes when it comes to legal questions.

Btw I was really thinking of working a long and extensive reply to your last post that you answered to me, but I guess it‘s not really worth the time.
 
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Akrotiri

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
Happy to reveal my profession,
Sales Manager Northern America for Riese & Müller.
And even if I might only have 3 posts here, I guess I might have some experience on this topic.

I have been in contact with many people having exactly the problems I am warning of here and my intention is mainly to use this forum to help people avoid doing this mistake.
I know that many people think EBikes are like bicycles and bicycles are simple, well it would be nice if it was this way, but as most of you know eBikes are much more complex and believe me they are closer to motorbikes than to bikes when it comes to legal questions.

Btw I was really thinking of working a long and extensive reply to your last post that you answered to me, but I guess it‘s not really worth the time.
Wow, it's surprising R&M has a sales manager chris for "Northern America" but based in Germany; a pity they don't have a warranty and customer service manager for all of "Northern America". But that is for the LB$ to take care of right?

Your intention to use this forum to stop people from traveling/relocating with their own e-bikes?

Yes it isn't worth your time to explain , how professional of you to say that.


Perhaps your time would be better served on these forums talking to people who are having problems getting their R&M bikes serviced out of warranty or even in warranty or those with R&M e-bikes that have fatal flaws and defects that need to be rectified.
 
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Akrotiri

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
Nice stealth edit there chris Mr. R&M sales manager of Northern America I figured out who you are beforehand as the edits in the posts prove.
 

webcurl

Well-Known Member
And again we don't know what his professional background actually is because he hasn't said specifically in what capacity he claims to know what he states on the forums as fact. Actually just this thread as he is a new member with 3 posts and all in this thread. Interesting no?

Touché