Shimano vs Bosch ; AMD vs Intel

fxr3

Active Member
Hopefully, you meant AMD makes as good or better chips than intel, but intel is riding on name and customers ignorance.
But, I think you mean Bosch is superior, and shimano is scrambling to stay in the game.
I don't know what flame war or VGB means,
But I think emco5 was being overly generous with Bosch making good washing machines.
If you're old enough, Bosch means overpriced European car parts maker that gave euro cars a bad name because of expense to repair them. If you're not, but are shopping expensive household appliances- you recognize the name. Otherwise, the end caps at Walmart, oreilys, etc..... proudly display their windshield wipers.
And of course they are the most recognizable ebike- because they forgot to hide their battery in downtube, even though the mfg has already retooled t0 except their motor. Why the mfg's would go along with having the battery look like an afterthought can likely be explained by.......... nobody.
E-mountain bike magazine is already calling shimano the best motor/drive leaving all others to catch up.
I watched Shimano decimate PENN fishing reels(in the last 20 years)with technology and quality that left PENN a shadow of themselves and only remaining in business by copying Shimano stuff, but in a inferior way.
SHIMANO(fishing) is not in the parts business- any noise or troubles with their reels- you mail them to Shimano in Irvine, they completely r&r it.... bearings, drags, anything reel needs- charge you $20.00 labor, n/c for parts. Period!
They don't question if you've been running heavier line than reel is rated(dongles) or squirm about how you used your reel. Their quality does the talking.
The only thing scarier than Shimano entering your market is YAMAHA. Especially if it has to do with 2 wheel powered fun.
Personally, I own an st1, st2, and just bought a brose 45kph. Don't regret buying any of them. 2 years from now, I'm pretty sure I'll be deciding between Yamaha and Shimano.
 

emco5

Active Member
> ....Hopefully, you meant AMD makes as good or better chips than intel, but intel is riding on name and customers ignorance

I meant that Shimano is as common in the bicycle scene as Intel chips are in computers. The debate over Intel and AMD is for another website. :)

It will be interesting to see which eBike power systems [and eBike brands] survive the sorting out process and are still around in a few years. If the eBike continues to be a lightweight pedal bicycle with power 'assistance', my bet is on Shimano. If it evolves into a faster/heavier Moped with inevitable restrictions and licensing, then Yamaha could be the shining star. Bosch will still be Bosch.
 

fxr3

Active Member
I totally agree with you. I just don't know what e boy was originally trying to imply.
It's a moot point. I just think a lot of Shimano and Yamaha, and would be shaking in my boots if I had to compete with them. I'm still very impressed with my brose powered bulls, and am glad I jumped into mid-drive thing with the brose.
My sister waited and waited to buy her first computer as their abilities were doubling annually. Only problem was she never got to enjoy a computer for years cause she didn't want to buy something that was outdated so quickly.
 

Thomas Jaszewski

Well-Known Member
I owned Bosch appliances and they were a nightmare. Parts were nearly always delayed and they were the most frequently repaired appliances I owned. I was always an AMD fan and built at least a dozen computers with parts from Mwave. But gave up and went to the dark side, Apple, a decade ago. No more windoze. Flame wars, internet term for squabbling. Lots of angry posts passed between AMD fans and Intel users aguing about who was better. VBG a common forum abbreviation for Very Big Grin. All just a google away. I've always been the alternative do it yourself guy, so I have neither. I have 4 Bafang mid drives left. Soon to be two as I transition to geared hub drives. I'd likely be a Yamaha or Shimano buyer if i rode manufactured eBikes. Bosch left a sour taste. I don't like being tied to a shop. I dont like waiting. I do use the LBS (local bike shop) for fine tuning and accesories. But i insist on off the shelf batteries and motors I can access parts for. The Bosch business model doesn't work for me. I will own one of the manufactured mid drives one day. Waiting for a frustrated owner to discover their battery replacement cost is half the price paid for their bike. I'm seeing some really nice used bikes pop up with frustrated owners giving up over battery cost. Since i have welders and all the tools i can build and configure nearly every battery configurations used. I admire ALL ebikes. And respect all tiders decisions on what makes them happy. I think they are all one of the mst positive changes to transportation in many decades.
 

Thomas Jaszewski

Well-Known Member
> ....Hopefully, you meant AMD makes as good or better chips than intel, but intel is riding on name and customers ignorance

I meant that Shimano is as common in the bicycle scene as Intel chips are in computers. The debate over Intel and AMD is for another website. :)

It will be interesting to see which eBike power systems [and eBike brands] survive the sorting out process and are still around in a few years. If the eBike continues to be a lightweight pedal bicycle with power 'assistance', my bet is on Shimano. If it evolves into a faster/heavier Moped with inevitable restrictions and licensing, then Yamaha could be the shining star. Bosch will still be Bosch.
Shimano has my attention too.
 

e-boy

Well-Known Member
what I meant was I see companies like Cannondale and Trek putting Shimano in their lower price , entry level models and Bosch on the higher end .
Reminds me of back in the day when PC's were just becoming mass market .

By the way , according to The Sweethome , the Bosch 300 Series M is the best dishwasher for most people.
 
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Thomas Jaszewski

Well-Known Member
Well we buy by our own experience, I had all Bosch appliances in my Las Vegas home. It was a bad choice xperience and an expensive one. The fact remains, for me, im not interested in a motor I can't repair. Shimano also does a better job, from my perspective, in supporting with documentstion as well. I see that Consumer Reports does rat several models quite high. Nowthat i live in a smaller retirement house, i have a Polish dishwasher. I do the job for less money and i require no replacement parts. Well i ake that back. A new pacemaker was required. I respect everyones choice. As i mentioned, I'm now transitioning to gear driven hub drives. Afte the Mac, a two wheel drive Q series build. Q100C CST rear, and Q100H front. Lyen dual controllers and CA3 display.
 

e-boy

Well-Known Member
Not sure I understand all the negativity about Bosch .
This sites reviewer , Court , stated his preference for Bosch .
And Every dealer I've spoken with says Bosch is rock solid reliable and with great customer support , and their choice also for a drive .
 

Thomas Jaszewski

Well-Known Member
Not sure I understand all the negativity about Bosch .
This sites reviewer , Court , stated his preference for Bosch .
And Every dealer I've spoken with says Bosch is rock solid reliable and with great customer support , and their choice also for a drive .
Let me try this another way. Regardless of Courts opinion, which BTW I totally appreciate and respect, their business model doesn't fit my interests. From my perspective that's not "negativity about Bosch".

I'm hands on. I work on my own motors and build my own batteries. The Bosch business model does not fit my eBike interests. I'm looking forward to my spring trip to Madison to ride the latest version.

At some juncture, should enough be on the market that there's an active forum regarding repair, and parts access, I'd consider buying a used Bosch powered bike. However, based on my own experience, I expect parts access to be problematic for the home mechanic, if they stay with the same business model. Preventing me from buying.

I think Shimano, while some are not as

I hope that clarifies. I'm somewhat surprised that's not clear. I'm happy that Bosch riders are pleased. Bosch is an important segment of the market. Their innovations will likely influence the market. Just not me.



K?

All the best,

Tom

VBG
 

Thomas Jaszewski

Well-Known Member
We're all good. I'm all about supporting whatever makes a rider happy. I do not in any way feel singled out. I'm more than happy to have a discussion. Thanks for the feedback!
 

fxr3

Active Member
I didn't mean to be negative about Bosch, but I did want to stick up for Shimano and share my long term experience with Shimano fishing service and quality of product.
If Bosch can resist not overcharging for proprietary parts- that will be a big plus. My amateur experience with Bosch car parts is they were overpriced. And there are a lot of parts in a mid-drive.
If they encouraged bike mfg's to "hide" their battery, I may have bought a Bosch powered bike.
They are the benchmark for mid-drives.
My brose powered bulls met my criteria much better- hidden battery, 45kph, whisper quiet, and a history of quality motor manufacturing.
Yamaha and Shimano will just up the bar- because their history of quality is undeniable.
 

MLB

Well-Known Member
Anyone shilling for Shimano must never have ridden bikes before Ebikes!!
They are the most hated name in bicycling for very good reason! They make proprietary drive train components, change them almost every year and make them NOT BACKWARD COMPATIBLE so you have to change out everything.
Ask ANY bike shop mechanic.
They suck ROYAL ASS.
Anyone that thinks their weak Shimano Emotor is competition, much less better, than Bosche is clueless.
 

emco5

Active Member
....They make proprietary drive train components, change them almost every year and make them NOT BACKWARD COMPATIBLE so you have to change out everything.....

Just like the majority of consumer products manufactured around the world. It's Business Economics-101. The mechs may see it as annoying, but the shop owner appreciates the sale.
 
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fxr3

Active Member
MLB, my Shimano experience is primarily with their high end saltwater fishing. And they are the best.
And their service is more than fair.
E-mountain bike magazine said they are the best, not me. Their next issue will feature mid-drive motor comparison-
So we can see what they say then.
Personally, I bought a brose powered bulls after test riding all of them in Long Beach last month.
If any of the Bosch powered bikes had their batteries tucked away better and more discretely, I may have bought one.