Signs just put up on my home town bike path.

Flannel Guy

Member
Region
USA
Just noticed some new 🚳 signs put up at the parking area for a trail I've been riding all season. They put them at the hiker entrances but they aren't visible from the bike entrance at the side of the parking lot and none at the other access points on other roads. I ride to the trails, so....🤷‍♂️, 🚵‍♂️
 

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Flannel Guy

Member
Region
USA
Just noticed some new 🚳 signs put up at the parking area for a trail I've been riding all season. They put them at the hiker entrances but they aren't visible from the bike entrance at the side of the parking lot and none at the other access points on other roads. I ride to the trails, so....🤷‍♂️, 🚵‍♂️
No where on the rules/regulations placard does it say no bikes. -- I've been wondering how many home owners that live near these trails are just buying and putting up their own signs. I ve seen homemade 🚳 signs put up and I've seen attempts at hiding trail entrances with landscaping that border the owners property....
 

Tom@WashDC

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Loudoun County, VA.
Here's where a stealthy eBike would be my choice. F' em!
I agree - F'em.

Years ago, before e-bikes, when my daughter was 7 years old, I took her riding a few times along the Potomac River basin in Washington DC. I quickly decided it was far too dangerous for her due the regular bikers that easily exceeded 20MPH and whizzed by with no effective warning, or reasonable distance. Today I see plenty of regular bikers averaging 17-25 mph with ease on the flat or downhill on my trails. This is not about a bike being "electric", it's about common sense and courtesy. The problem with most Hi-Tech Carbon frame road bikers is that they are not able to, or won't go "off trail" for a moment to pass at a safe distance due to the skinny high pressure tires. Not so with your average e-bike.

I find that riding an electric bike makes it easier for me to be courteous on a trial. For instance, whenever I see a woman with small children or a baby carriage, I always veer off the paved trail into the grass and give a wide birth of 15+ feet. Call me "sexist" if you must. I try to do this when encountering pedestrians and bicyclists when possible. The e-bike makes that an easy thing to do.

I think the best rule to adopt would be a policy for all vehicles similar to most jet ski and boating rules. When you are within "X" feet of pedestrian (swimmer), you must slow down to "X" mph.
 

mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Because it has a noticeable Hub Motor
i know, lol. short of some TdF e-doping tech no trained officer or even enthusiastic cyclist is going to miss a motor.

however, if i got pulled over on my creo with the motor off (which it assuredly, absolutely 100% would be on a MUP) i would fight the ticket with all resources, especially since ride logs would prove that it was off.
 

mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
… Today I see plenty of regular bikers averaging 17-25 mph with ease on the flat or downhill on my trails. This is not about a bike being "electric", it's about common sense and courtesy. The problem with most Hi-Tech Carbon frame road bikers is that they are not able to, or won't go "off trail" for a moment to pass at a safe distance due to the skinny high pressure tires. Not so with your average e-bike.

….

i agree that it’s fundamentally about common sense and courtesy, but could not disagree more about the notion that a legitimate and legal trail user should go “off trail” to pass. that is not safe, not legal in many places (most of our trails and many MUPs go through protected watersheds or reserves) and not necessary. it is a cyclists responsibility to yield to pedestrians, but they are not required to detour off road around them, and pedestrians have a mutual responsibility to behave reasonably on a trail. when people walk single file on the right of a path or trail, or two abreast at max on a wider path, passing is safe and predictable, especially since most MUPs have excellent sight lines.

i don’t ride that many MUPs, and perhaps cyclists out west are more experienced and responsible, but the whole “fast assholes in lycra” thing is either made up to justify bad ebike behavior or some sort of confirmation bias. i have literally never once seen it in 10,000 miles of riding in the bay area. i have seen some bad e-bike behavior, more bad scooter behavior, even more bad pedestrian behavior, and an enormous amount of bad canine owner behavior. the only time i ever fell on a MUP was years ago when i was jogging and an illegally off-leash dog blasted perpendicular across the path at high speed. i was bloodied and bruised on the ground and the owner had the gall to yell and scream at me for kicking her dog.

i had her arrested.
 

mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Ebike motor on or off, it is still an Ebike.
i think that’s an area of law which needs to be refined. the beauty of an eBike is that in many circumstances, the majority of the power comes from the rider. the flexibility which comes from being able to ride with the motor off or at very low assist levels is of benefit to both the rider and society at large, reducing vehicle traffic and allowing more practical and flexible infrastructure planning.

i posted a while back an example of a trail restriction here in which bikes with throttles installed were allowed on the trail, as long as the throttles weren’t used. that’s a good common sense approach.
 

Tom@WashDC

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Loudoun County, VA.
i agree that it’s fundamentally about common sense and courtesy, but could not disagree more about the notion that a legitimate and legal trail user should go “off trail” to pass. that is not safe, not legal in many places (most of our trails and many MUPs go through protected watersheds or reserves) and not necessary. it is a cyclists responsibility to yield to pedestrians, but they are not required to detour off road around them, and pedestrians have a mutual responsibility to behave reasonably on a trail. when people walk single file on the right of a path or trail, or two abreast at max on a wider path, passing is safe and predictable, especially since most MUPs have excellent sight lines.

i don’t ride that many MUPs, and perhaps cyclists out west are more experienced and responsible, but the whole “fast assholes in lycra” thing is either made up to justify bad ebike behavior or some sort of confirmation bias. i have literally never once seen it in 10,000 miles of riding in the bay area. i have seen some bad e-bike behavior, more bad scooter behavior, even more bad pedestrian behavior, and an enormous amount of bad canine owner behavior. the only time i ever fell on a MUP was years ago when i was jogging and an illegally off-leash dog blasted perpendicular across the path at high speed. i was bloodied and bruised on the ground and the owner had the gall to yell and scream at me for kicking her dog.

i had her arrested.
Clarification Msschwett:

I never implied that a "legitimate trail user should go off trail" or be "required to detour off road around (pedestrians)", though I can see how you may have construed that. What I described was my personal behavior on my local paved trails, riding a dual suspension Luna Z1 Enduro or my Aventon Level with 3" MTB tires. Both bikes are perfectly safe off-road in the grass or dirt. My "off trail" avoidance technique is perfectly legal in my bailiwick, and of course a biker should always ride at their own skill level, and not exceed the design capabilities of their bike.

70% of pedestrians that I encounter are wearing over-ear, or in-ear headphones and do not respond to my vocal warnings, or my 115 dB horn. These people are the most dangerous thing that I encounter on my daily ride. They are usually walking in the middle of the trail, many with a dog on leash that extends the full trail width, and seem to be out of touch with the environmental sounds around them. Many of them are simultaneously talking on their phones and they are oblivious to their surroundings. I live in an area that has a population of about 40-60% people from India that are temporary workers that are employed in the computer industry. This subset generally walk on the left side of the trail (normal in India I believe), or worse yet, they scurry to the their left side of the trail (my right side) at the last seconds when they see or hear a bike approaching. This is very dangerous behavior even at low speeds. Add to this their lack of hearing from the headphone thing, and it becomes quite the unpredictable obstacle course. I never know which way they are going to move as I approach. Hence, I proactively avoid pedestrians by moving a few feet off the trail, whenever possible . A surprising number of them smile and nod, and thank me for the wide berth.

That's just me. Not recommending this riding technique to anyone. I deem it to be the safest compromise for me.

I do believe that if laws or rules are to formulated and implemented by local authorities, communities, or HOA's, e-bikes need not be banned wholesale. The rules should be based on the general concept developed in the boating industry, wherein a boat must slow down (5mph) when passing within a certain distance of swimmers or other boats. Commensurately, pedestrians must be required to walk on the right hand side of the trail, including their dogs, and that dogs must be on a short leash that do not allow the dog to freely cross the left hand side of the trail.
 

Taylor57

Well-Known Member
i agree that it’s fundamentally about common sense and courtesy, but could not disagree more about the notion that a legitimate and legal trail user should go “off trail” to pass. that is not safe, not legal in many places (most of our trails and many MUPs go through protected watersheds or reserves) and not necessary. it is a cyclists responsibility to yield to pedestrians, but they are not required to detour off road around them, and pedestrians have a mutual responsibility to behave reasonably on a trail. when people walk single file on the right of a path or trail, or two abreast at max on a wider path, passing is safe and predictable, especially since most MUPs have excellent sight lines.

i don’t ride that many MUPs, and perhaps cyclists out west are more experienced and responsible, but the whole “fast assholes in lycra” thing is either made up to justify bad ebike behavior or some sort of confirmation bias. i have literally never once seen it in 10,000 miles of riding in the bay area. i have seen some bad e-bike behavior, more bad scooter behavior, even more bad pedestrian behavior, and an enormous amount of bad canine owner behavior. the only time i ever fell on a MUP was years ago when i was jogging and an illegally off-leash dog blasted perpendicular across the path at high speed. i was bloodied and bruised on the ground and the owner had the gall to yell and scream at me for kicking her dog.

i had her arrested.
Can you just have somebody arrested?
 

mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Can you just have somebody arrested?
as she was screaming at me, i called the SFPD non emergency line and gave them the down low. they said it wasn’t their jurisdiction (federal) but transferred me to some local branch of the NPS. a park ranger came almost instantly and cited her for her dog being off leash, and a bunch of other stuff including some type of verbal assault. i gave my info and left, so i don’t think she was actually arrested, and i have no idea if anything came of it. most likely not since i was never called to testify or anything.

if she had been apologetic i would not have done anything other than limp to the nearest convenience store or pharmacy to clean myself up. but she displayed the gross entitlement of a decent percentage of dog owners out there, who refuse to take responsibility for their pets and believe they rest of us should work around them.
 

mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA

70% of pedestrians that I encounter are wearing over-ear, or in-ear headphones and do not respond to my vocal warnings, or my 115 dB horn. These people are the most dangerous thing that I encounter on my daily ride. They are usually walking in the middle of the trail, many with a dog on leash that extends the full trail width, and seem to be out of touch with the environmental sounds around them. …

agreed, although mostly what i see are 50/50 between clumps of people talking and so engrossed it whatever they’re talking about that they’re totally oblivious that they’re taking up 80% of both sides of a two way shared path, and the roving dog either without leash or with leash that acts as a tripwire across the path 😂😂😂
 

Rexlion

Active Member
Region
USA
City
Tulsa metro
So much for "the land of the free" when you can't keep riding your usual trails. Have those NYC administrators started wearing shiny jackboots yet? They need some. ;)

So glad I live in the nation's midsection.