Specialized Creo SL Expert versus Giant Road-e Pro?

jabberwocky

Well-Known Member
As someone who has a similar bike (Revolt E, which is 45 pounds or so) I will say you really don't feel the weight riding it. I only really notice it wheeling it around my shop or lifting it onto the bike rack. Granted, it feels like a pig then. I hang my bikes on the ceiling to keep them out of the way and usually pop the battery out of the Giant to make it lighter, but its still one of my less fun bikes to lift onto the ceiling hooks. But riding, eh. It has so much power (that yamaha motor is no joke) and I just don't muscle a road or gravel bike around enough to really notice.

The Creo and something like the Road-E definitely take different approaches, and they absolutely each have their place. They are different enough that some seat time will probably tell you which you prefer. The Creo looks amazing for someone who wants an e-bike as close to a normal road bike as possible.
 

jodi2

Active Member
I agree and disagree at the same time! ;-)
I had/have several powerful speed e-bikes with 20-30 lbs more than the Creo. If I go with full power most time with 25-30mph and average speed from 22-24mph the extra weight doesn't bother me. On the contrary I really appreciate the heavier but stronger frame and wouldn't like the frame of a 6kg racing bike while cycling so fast and with so much power on the rear wheel. But this is different with a light bike with a lot less power and less speed. And if you use a powerful e-bike only with low support levels and lower speeds (and this is what the TO already does), you feel the extra weight much much more and 20 lbs more feel terrible. Or vice versa, a light bike like the Creo feels much much better there.
 

jabberwocky

Well-Known Member
And if you use a powerful e-bike only with low support levels and lower speeds (and this is what the TO already does), you feel the extra weight much much more and 20 lbs more feel terrible. Or vice versa, a light bike like the Creo feels much much better there.
For me, could be just that I spent most of my 20 year cycling career primarily mountainbiking (including several years racing DH on 45-50 pound bikes). I split my time pretty evenly between the Revolt (45-50 pounds loaded with bottles and crap) and a Motobecane Century Ti setup for gravel (probably 20-25 pounds?). I definitely notice the weight difference not on the bike, but riding, eh, not really.

That said, I also ride an EMTB (YT Decoy) and absolutely notice the weight there. But that bike I'm frequently muscling through corners and bunnyhopping logs and such. Switching back to my Ibis makes the difference extremely obvious there.

All things being equal, a lighter bike is always desirable though, for sure.
 

wrshultz

New Member
This will happen quite a little bit longer, as light e-bikes are still new. Here in Germany it started only 2-3 years ago with Mahle X35 and Fazua.

I don't know the Giant very well and can't judge if the overall specs of the Creo fulfill your needs. But the difference in cycling a 28 vs. 44 lbs bike is huge and I guess if you once tried the lighter one, you never want to go back. As you write, 95% Eco mode, so 95% carrying 16 lbs extra for nothing. Active mode on the Giant is Level 3 form 5? This should be similar to the power of the Creo ore maybe even less, so also not worries for the 5%. Only if your really really need full power of the Giant sometimes. But as the Creo is an expensive toy and you health is important, you better try the Creo first somewhere to be safe.
I miss-spoke in my original post when I said I used 95% Eco mode, and only used Active on the steepest/longest hills. I meant to say Basic mode, not Active. Basic is the second level assist mode and Active is the third assist level out of five. Sorry for the confusion. Thanks, Bill (OP)
 

jodi2

Active Member
Ok, but this ist still within the range/the power of the Creo. But as said, try it first!

For me, could be just that I spent most of my 20 year cycling career primarily mountainbiking (including several years racing DH on 45-50 pound bikes). I split my time pretty evenly between the Revolt (45-50 pounds loaded with bottles and crap) and a Motobecane Century Ti setup for gravel (probably 20-25 pounds?). I definitely notice the weight difference not on the bike, but riding, eh, not really.
As I tried to explain before, I think this depends on how you use the bike. If you use a bike like the Revolt with full motor power at high speeds on good tracks, it feels "right". But if you go with only light motor support and slower near the speed of the "organic bike" and maybe on difficult racks, you won't like the Revolt and you would feel a big difference in 20-25 lbs difference.
 

pmcdonald

Well-Known Member
So are any ebikes capable of being pushed above their motor cut-offs comfortably?

On the two I've owned, both are like bricks much more than 5 km/h above our 25 km/h limit. While my analog cycling friends sit easily on 30 or 35 km/h I'm burning my legs like crazy just trying to get to 30.

I once pushed my Explore a full 25 km/h above the limit to 50 on the flats, but that was with the mother of all tail winds!
 

jodi2

Active Member
My first Bosch speed pedelec (weight similar to the 25km/h versions) was "acceptable" for a few miles or even an hour without motor if it was flat. My Stromer with hub motor in the back is more terrible, especially if the system is completely turned off, then the motor is even breaking a little bit and the light turns on by the generatered voltage.
E-bikes like the Creo are another world compared to these two with respect to weight/pedaling without motor.
But I guess your are right, this feeling is even stronger due to our german/european 25km/h limit. Here you often have to ride a bike like the Creo without motor. With the limit at 45km/h and almost always motor support less weight might feel less important and less power more disturbing compared to a more powerful e-bike.
 

jabberwocky

Well-Known Member
As I tried to explain before, I think this depends on how you use the bike. If you use a bike like the Revolt with full motor power at high speeds on good tracks, it feels "right". But if you go with only light motor support and slower near the speed of the "organic bike" and maybe on difficult racks, you won't like the Revolt and you would feel a big difference in 20-25 lbs difference.
I ride in the lowest assist 95% of the time and ride almost exclusively off pavement. If you are riding in the saddle and not really muscling the bike around (which is 99% of the time for me gravel and road riding) I just don't really notice the weight of the bike. Even on eco, the Revolt has more than enough power to offset 20 extra pounds of bike when climbing.
 

jodi2

Active Member
Yes.
It is supereasy and by far the lightest and "easiest over 25km/h pedelec" I've ever ridden. That's the reason why it's also the most expensive bike I ever bought. ;-)
I feel no difference to my 10 pounds lighter gravel bike if it's flat. Even if it's hilly and the motor turned off I only feel "something is missing" if I rode the track before with motor. Otherwise I may think "Oups, my legs aren't the same today..." or "It was definitely one piece of chocolate to much yesterday...".
I'm not such an experienced sport/race bike rider, I guess an experienced one would still feel a slight but acceptable difference to a race&gravel bike withount motor.
And of course the enthusiasm is greater, if you are bound to the 25km/h limit and have to ride your e-bike more time without motor...
 

jodi2

Active Member
I ride in the lowest assist 95% of the time and ride almost exclusively off pavement. If you are riding in the saddle and not really muscling the bike around (which is 99% of the time for me gravel and road riding) I just don't really notice the weight of the bike. Even on eco, the Revolt has more than enough power to offset 20 extra pounds of bike when climbing.
This surprises me and is the oppositte of my impressions with a powerful e-bike with low assistance compared to the Creo. And I'm already a fat biker with 100kg. I guess if one has 200kg, then 10kg more ore less at the bike don't matter, but I'm sure you don't have 200kg. ;-)
 

RobertOK

New Member
My wife and I have Diverge Comps (middle range 3.7K) and our unassisted Creos are better faster/easier on the flats and downhill. You do feel the weight going uphill. To be fair our Creo components are much more spec'd out. Carbon wheels for instance.
 

jabberwocky

Well-Known Member
This surprises me and is the oppositte of my impressions with a powerful e-bike with low assistance compared to the Creo. And I'm already a fat biker with 100kg. I guess if one has 200kg, then 10kg more ore less at the bike don't matter, but I'm sure you don't have 200kg. ;-)
I'm about 100kg as well. Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely not arguing for or against either approach. The Creo is a marvel. I have a friend who is a traditional MTBer who has been riding a Levo for a few years and he picked up a Levo SL this year that he loves. Splits the difference between full power ebike and a lighter normal bike. Its a class of ebikes that I expect to grown dramatically in popularity. Its just hard to compare something like the Creo to a heavier ebike with a higher power motor.

My main issue with my Revolt is that its total overkill when I ride with friends on normal bikes (which I do semi-regularly). Even backing the assist way down and riding with people in way better shape than me, I'm either not working hard enough or way off the front. I could see wanting something like a Creo eventually for that reason alone.
 

pmcdonald

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the replies. I can comfortably ride my Explore unassisted at 20 - 25 km/h. I sometimes do riding with unpowered friends. It's just that above 25km/h envelope where it turns into an absolute brick and I pay dearly for every extra km!
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
Thanks for the replies. I can comfortably ride my Explore unassisted at 20 - 25 km/h. I sometimes do riding with unpowered friends. It's just that above 25km/h envelope where it turns into an absolute brick and I pay dearly for every extra km!
If I ride with unpowered friends, the first thing I'm doing is to dramatically decrease assist levels in my Vado or Trance :)
 

jodi2

Active Member
(...)Splits the difference between full power ebike and a lighter normal bike. Its a class of ebikes that I expect to grown dramatically in popularity. Its just hard to compare something like the Creo to a heavier ebike with a higher power motor.

My main issue with my Revolt is that its total overkill when I ride with friends on normal bikes (which I do semi-regularly). Even backing the assist way down and riding with people in way better shape than me, I'm either not working hard enough or way off the front. I could see wanting something like a Creo eventually for that reason alone.
It also makes the difference between e-bike and "organic bikes" disappear. Two months ago I joined a gravel event with around 85 cyclists, 110 km and more then 2000 hm. I was not the only one in the "0.1 tons class", but to my surprise the only over all 85 with motor. I expected at least some more Bosch or Fazua.
I wouldn't have been able to do the trip without motor or I would have been "dead" for weeks. Without motor I would have survived the smaller trip of 70km and 1300 hm. With the Creo I was "just" very tired at the end of teh big trip and used the Creo again after 2-3 days recovery.
I was able to stay the whole day in a group with some slightly fitter und some much fitter riders. I used mostly level1 at 30% (which is about 70 watt) what means only uphill as we have the 25km/h e-bike limit here. In a few hard uphills where my gears weren't short enough I used level2 with 60% or about 150 watt. I arrived with 11% (I have only the Creo main battery), so I used about 300 Wh over 6h cyling time (we had a lot of breaks due to punctures), so on average 50 watt. The goal was not ot cycle faster, but to reach the end of the long trip with as less motor/battery and as much own effort as possible. And - after our group was formed by accident after the first hour - to stay in the group. The first 30-40 minutes I rode alone and used too much level2 in uphills and passed several obviously younger and lighter (so I guess uphill normally also much faster) riders then me. I felt a little bit ashamed and was also afraid if my battery would last until the end.
The last two hours when also the fitter riders of our group started to get tired, I even turned down the support level in the Creo App to 25%. Even if the battery would have allowed more support, I wanted to stay in the group without letting the other ones behind and using the rest of power my legs still had not the motor.
I had the impression, that everyone in our group appreciated that my motor allowed me to stay in the group. No one was gossiping, no one was jealous (maybe one or two of the less fit ones at the end...) and all of them saw, that I still did some sport. I guess also with 50 watt average motor support I gave at least as much power and burned as much calories as the other ones, due to my 20-25 kg of extra ballast...
On the other hand you still have the shame of using a slightly visible and hearable e-bike but with only little support/little speed gain. But I can stand this. ;-)