Specialized, Trek or Orbea, which one?

Akrotiri

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
I just found a 2020 Turbo Vado SL 4 that was converted for gravel with drop bar and a slew of other upgrades including a Shimano GRX Di2 group set. He's asking $5200 with an extender battery. Here are a list of the modifications. * Easton Gravel Drop Bar * FSA Stem * Shimano GRX Di2 groupset (which means this is an 11 speed [OEM is 10 spd]) * Shimano GRX disc brakes. * Enve Seatpost * DT Swiss Tubeless Wheelset R470db (is set up tubeless) * Maxxis Rambler 700x40 tires * Shimano 11-42 Cassette * Shimano XTR Pedals * Specialized bottle cages. I never consider the Vado and really don't know much about it.
Everyone on the forums that has a Vado SL 4 has been very happy with it. It’s a great e-bike from a great company and is light enough to be pedaled even without power.

As for the drop bar conversion that’s up to you if the more aggressive riding position is comfortable for you then go for it. It would make the bike even more unique and cut down on the wind resistance when riding at higher speeds.
 

Akrotiri

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
Is there a downside when you put drop bars on a frame that is designed for a more upright riding position?
Usually a bike designed for drop bars has specific geometry. A bike designed initially with flat bars then converted to drop bars would have less if any comfort issues.

It’s a good question to ask and I’m not 100% sure if the converted Levo SL would have any quirky geometry regarding the reach since it’s now a drop bar but originally a flat bar.

Personally for me if I was on the market for a Levo SL I would seek out an original flat bar version to avoid any of the potential downsides of buying an ebike that was intended and designed as a flat bar but converted to drops.
 

Alaskan

Well-Known Member
I would think that putting drop bars on a Vado SL4 using a Ritchie Beacon would be a good way to go. This is a gravel drop bar with a very shallow 80 degree drop and 36 degree flair, probably the least drop of any handlebar. At only $50 it would not be a terribly expensive experiment. Of course there is the cost of new brake lever/shifters cabling and hose. This would give you a chance to see how the bike functions with a drop bar that would be easier to adapt to because of its more moderate drop and reach. Also it would be wise to use an adjustable angle stem which would help find the most comfortable ride position.

br_rd_comp_beacon_bb_my2021_angle_1.jpg
 

Akrotiri

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
I
I would think that putting drop bars on a Vado SL4 using a Ritchie Beacon would be a good way to go. This is a gravel drop bar with a very shallow 80 degree drop and 36 degree flair, probably the least drop of any handlebar. At only $50 it would not be a terribly expensive experiment. Of course there is the cost of new brake lever/shifters cabling and hose. This would give you a chance to see how the bike functions with a drop bar that would be easier to adapt to because of its more moderate drop and reach. Also it would be wise to use an adjustable angle stem which would help find the most comfortable ride position.

View attachment 82259
I believe @Firnatine said the Vado SL is already converted to drop bar and wants to know if he should pull the trigger on it or look to purchase a standard flat bar Vado SL.
 

Alaskan

Well-Known Member
I

I believe @Firnatine said the Vado SL is already converted to drop bar and wants to know if he should pull the trigger on it or look to purchase a standard flat bar Vado SL.
We were having a discussion here. My comment may or may not be relevant to the OP.

I was suggesting a less radical modification in choice of handlebars in the event he chose to buy that bike rather than purchase a purpose made drop handlebar bike He was not looking to purchase a flat bar bike as you suggest. He began this thread inquiring about drop bar bikes and was only looking at this one because it has been converted to a drop bar.

I rarely, if ever, advise anyone to "pull the trigger" on a particular bike. Rather I try to share what information I am aware of that would help the inquiring person to make their own decision. This is what the OP asked for, information about a bike and its modifications that he had not been considering and wanted to know more about.

The OP is still an active part of the conversation. If he feels my observation is not relevant, he is free to either ignore it or ask that the conversation remain more narrowly focused. It not really your place to do so.
 

Akrotiri

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
We were having a discussion here. My comment may or may not be relevant to the OP.

I was suggesting a less radical modification in choice of handlebars in the event he chose to buy that bike rather than purchase a purpose made drop handlebar bike He was not looking to purchase a flat bar bike as you suggest. He began this thread inquiring about drop bar bikes and was only looking at this one because it has been converted to a drop bar.

I rarely, if ever, advise anyone to "pull the trigger" on a particular bike. Rather I try to share what information I am aware of that would help the inquiring person to make their own decision. This is what the OP asked for, information about a bike and its modifications that he had not been considering and wanted to know more about.

The OP is still an active part of the conversation. If he feels my observation is not relevant, he is free to either ignore it or ask that the conversation remain more narrowly focused. It not really your place to do so.
I’m sorry I didn’t mean to imply your comment wasn’t relevant. It always is ofcourse.

I re-read the thread and yes you’re correct he specifically was looking at it because it was a drop bar conversion. My mistake.
 

Alaskan

Well-Known Member
I’m sorry I didn’t mean to imply your comment wasn’t relevant. It always is ofcourse.

I re-read the thread and yes you’re correct he specifically was looking at it because it was a drop bar conversion. My mistake.
Thank you. We are good.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
I see how that was misleading, I said “Definitely not for a 4“ only because of the price. Fours are $1,000 less expensive than the fives. Meaning that the used Vado drop bar conversion on offer was overpriced for a 5 and very overpriced for a 4. Both good bikes. I’m looking at getting a Vado for my wife, if they ever come back in stock.
Thank you. I am sorry, I misread your post!
 

ebikealex

New Member
Region
United Kingdom
Having bought an Orbea Gain D31 in March 2020 and ridden it for a year and recently having replaced it with a Creo, I have to say that the Creo is far superior and the power delivery is much more linear and usable. The Orbea was a good bike, but the Mahle motor delivered the power very inconsistently and resulted in a jerky ride. The Creo by comparison feels really natural and the Diverge based frame is great. The first thing I did to both bikes is to change the tyres out for tubeless Continental Terra Speed (light) gravel tyres, which made a huge difference to the ride comfort and performance. The price difference between these two is about 3x, but there really is a world of difference.
 

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Ebiker33

Well-Known Member
I'm new to the forum and looking for advice. I'm planning on buying an eBike in a month or two and have narrowed it down
to Specialized Turbo Creo Evo, Trek Domane HP+, or Orbea Gain M20i. I'm 72 and just started cycling last may. I ride a Santa Cruz Carbon
Stigmata and love it and plan to keep it. My reason for an eBike is I will be riding cross country this August with a group of firefighters for the 20th anniversary of 9/11. I will be the oldest in the group by 10 years with the least amount of cycling experience. The plan is to stay together and no one gets dropped. I don't want to be the guy that slows the group down so I hope the eBike will allow me to keep up. On the flats my Santa Cruz should be fine but there will be some major climbs to deal with that will be extremely challenging especially for a guy my age.

I really like the Turbo Creo Evo and leaning heavily in that direction. I like the fact its a gravel bike, doesn't look like an ebike, is under 30 lbs. and class 3. All the reviews I've read have been positive. The battery range is one of the best and the optional battery they claim would give 40 more miles. I see they just raised the price by $500 and stock is low.

The Domane HP+ has a more powerful motor that I would assume be better for the big climbs and it too is class 3. I don't like the weight at 39 lbs. which makes it 20 lbs. heavier then my Santa Cruz. Out of the 3 bikes, it is the most expensive.

For me the Orbea by far is the best looking of the 3 and does not look at all like an eBike. It is also the lightest at 26 lbs. It comes with Shimano Di2 and is more then a thousand dollars less then the others. I don't like the fact it is not class 3 with the assist only to 20mph. I also have concerns about the hub motor compared to the mid drive motor. The reviews I've read have been mixed. I've read the drag is noticeable once the assist quits.

I'm not looking for a free ride just some assist that will get me over the big bumps, has good range and comfortable to ride for 8 hours. I pretty much made up my mine but would love to hear others opinions to help assure me I'm making the right decision.

Thanks in advance.
Since you said you love your Santa Cruz analog, they make an Ebike, looks pretty good too.
my21_5_hero_heckler_yellow.jpg
 

cj3209

Member
Region
USA
I'm new to the forum and looking for advice. I'm planning on buying an eBike in a month or two and have narrowed it down
to Specialized Turbo Creo Evo, Trek Domane HP+, or Orbea Gain M20i. I'm 72 and just started cycling last may. I ride a Santa Cruz Carbon
Stigmata and love it and plan to keep it. My reason for an eBike is I will be riding cross country this August with a group of firefighters for the 20th anniversary of 9/11. I will be the oldest in the group by 10 years with the least amount of cycling experience. The plan is to stay together and no one gets dropped. I don't want to be the guy that slows the group down so I hope the eBike will allow me to keep up. On the flats my Santa Cruz should be fine but there will be some major climbs to deal with that will be extremely challenging especially for a guy my age.

I really like the Turbo Creo Evo and leaning heavily in that direction. I like the fact its a gravel bike, doesn't look like an ebike, is under 30 lbs. and class 3. All the reviews I've read have been positive. The battery range is one of the best and the optional battery they claim would give 40 more miles. I see they just raised the price by $500 and stock is low.

The Domane HP+ has a more powerful motor that I would assume be better for the big climbs and it too is class 3. I don't like the weight at 39 lbs. which makes it 20 lbs. heavier then my Santa Cruz. Out of the 3 bikes, it is the most expensive.

For me the Orbea by far is the best looking of the 3 and does not look at all like an eBike. It is also the lightest at 26 lbs. It comes with Shimano Di2 and is more then a thousand dollars less then the others. I don't like the fact it is not class 3 with the assist only to 20mph. I also have concerns about the hub motor compared to the mid drive motor. The reviews I've read have been mixed. I've read the drag is noticeable once the assist quits.

I'm not looking for a free ride just some assist that will get me over the big bumps, has good range and comfortable to ride for 8 hours. I pretty much made up my mine but would love to hear others opinions to help assure me I'm making the right decision.

Thanks in advance.
I have the Pinarello Dyodo which is very similar to the Orbea Gain M20i. Assumming your ride is mainly tarmac and isn't over 60 miles per ride, I recommend the Orbea Gain for the following reasons:

1) I don't notice ANY drag on the hub motor and my Dyodo uses the exact same eMotion hub motor as the Orbea Gain M20i so riding without the hub motor assist is relatively easy on flats.
2) There is an extended batter option that will give you around 60+ hours but if you only use the hub motor during climbs, you can get more miles, even without the extended battery.
3) The eMotion hub motor really helps on hills at levels 2 and 3; since you only need the motor on hills, you can save battery life.
4) weighing at around 27-28 lbs really helps when cycling on flats and means you can ride the bike without a motor assist; the other ebikes (Creo and Domane) CANNOT be ridden without motor assist.

The main issue is that if you need the hub motor assist during the flats (maybe the group averages a speedy 22-24 MPH on the flats), you will run out of battery power at around 30-50 miles, depending on terrain.

But you will have to gauge your fitness level. I'm 52 and fairly fit for my age; I can keep up with most riders with my Aero Road Bike. I only use the eBike when I don't want to be exhausted after a 50+ miles ride or when exploring or need to get somewhere, very quickly.

Good luck!

CJ
 
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cj3209

Member
Region
USA
I have the Pinarello Dyodo which is very similar to the Orbea Gain M20i. Assumming your ride is mainly tarmac and isn't over 60 miles per ride, I recommend the Orbea Gain for the following reasons:

1) I don't notice ANY drag on the hub motor and my Dyodo uses the exact same eMotion hub motor as the Orbea Gain M20i so riding without the hub motor assist is relatively easy on flats.
2) There is an extended batter option that will give you around 60+ hours but if you only use the hub motor during climbs, you can get more miles, even without the extended battery.
3) The eMotion hub motor really helps on hills at levels 2 and 3; since you only need the motor on hills, you can save battery life.
4) weighing at around 27-28 lbs really helps when cycling on flats and means you can ride the bike without a motor assist; the other ebikes (Creo and Domane) CANNOT be ridden without motor assist.

The main issue is that if you need the hub motor assist during the flats (maybe the group averages a speedy 22-24 MPH on the flats), you will run out of battery power at around 30-50 miles, depending on terrain.

But you will have to gauge your fitness level. I'm 52 and fairly fit for my age; I can keep up with most riders with my Aero Road Bike. I only use the eBike when I don't want to be exhausted after a 50+ miles ride or when exploring or need to get somewhere, very quickly.

Good luck!

CJ
BTW, I also recommend the Canyon Grail-On as well; it is Class 3 and a BLAST to ride. It will easily give you 60+ miles on a charge (no extended battery available or needed). It's not cheap though.
 

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PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I have the Pinarello Dyodo which is very similar to the Orbea Gain M20i. Assumming your ride is mainly tarmac and isn't over 60 miles per ride, I recommend the Orbea Gain for the following reasons:

1) I don't notice ANY drag on the hub motor and my Dyodo uses the exact same eMotion hub motor as the Orbea Gain M20i so riding without the hub motor assist is relatively easy on flats.
2) There is an extended batter option that will give you around 60+ hours but if you only use the hub motor during climbs, you can get more miles, even without the extended battery.
3) The eMotion hub motor really helps on hills at levels 2 and 3; since you only need the motor on hills, you can save battery life.
4) weighing at around 27-28 lbs really helps when cycling on flats and means you can ride the bike without a motor assist; the other ebikes (Creo and Domane) CANNOT be ridden without motor assist.

The main issue is that if you need the hub motor assist during the flats (maybe the group averages a speedy 22-24 MPH on the flats), you will run out of battery power at around 30-50 miles, depending on terrain.

But you will have to gauge your fitness level. I'm 52 and fairly fit for my age; I can keep up with most riders with my Aero Road Bike. I only use the eBike when I don't want to be exhausted after a 50+ miles ride or when exploring or need to get somewhere, very quickly.

Good luck!

CJ
The Orbea Gain is strange to ride in my opinion. Try putting it into the lowest gear and pedaling the slowest you can on the highest power level. That is how you will see the bike hit its top speed then cut out. Surge to its top speed and again cut out. The range on the Gain in the real world of hills and stops at intersections is very limited.
Their Range Extender is a $200 battery that they want $650 for.
The Creo is so much better to ride. Seamless. A real bike for people who ride bikes.
I just made the one in the photo. It has a lot of heavy things on it such as a big gel saddle and a .7 pound kickstand. It is 32.2 pounds with the gear. And will play with the Creo side-by-side. This is an old bike.
 

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cj3209

Member
Region
USA
The Orbea Gain is strange to ride in my opinion. Try putting it into the lowest gear and pedaling the slowest you can on the highest power level. That is how you will see the bike hit its top speed then cut out. Surge to its top speed and again cut out. The range on the Gain in the real world of hills and stops at intersections is very limited.
Their Range Extender is a $200 battery that they want $650 for.
The Creo is so much better to ride. Seamless. A real bike for people who ride bikes.
I just made the one in the photo. It has a lot of heavy things on it such as a big gel saddle and a .7 pound kickstand. It is 32.2 pounds with the gear. And will play with the Creo side-by-side. This is an old bike.
I have both a Class 1 and Class 3 eBike and, yes, they both cut out at 20 and 28 mph, respectively. Not sure why that's an issue as that is what they are designed to do. I usually only use the hub motor just before a hill or against a crosswind and it is very helpful.
 

PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I have both a Class 1 and Class 3 eBike and, yes, they both cut out at 20 and 28 mph, respectively. Not sure why that's an issue as that is what they are designed to do. I usually only use the hub motor just before a hill or against a crosswind and it is very helpful.
That is exactly what the Gain is for. I get it.
 

StevenC56

Active Member
Region
USA
The Orbea Gain is strange to ride in my opinion. Try putting it into the lowest gear and pedaling the slowest you can on the highest power level. That is how you will see the bike hit its top speed then cut out. Surge to its top speed and again cut out. The range on the Gain in the real world of hills and stops at intersections is very limited.
Their Range Extender is a $200 battery that they want $650 for.
The Creo is so much better to ride. Seamless. A real bike for people who ride bikes.
I just made the one in the photo. It has a lot of heavy things on it such as a big gel saddle and a .7 pound kickstand. It is 32.2 pounds with the gear. And will play with the Creo side-by-side. This is an old bike.
I have never experienced this surge on my Gain. Why in the world would you even put it in the lowest gear and level 3 assist in real world riding? I wouldn't just because it doesn't make sense. Coming from a mechanical background, I know there's always a shortcoming or weak spot to any technology/product. It's amazing how people will so something out of the normal realm to purposely seek out these issues, and then home in on them over and over just to get upset about it or prove that they have a negative in their operating system.
 

PedalUma

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
You are correct. It is pushing limits like playing a guitar at the shortest part of the fretboard with the amplifier maxed.
 

ebikealex

New Member
Region
United Kingdom
BTW, I also recommend the Canyon Grail-On as well; it is Class 3 and a BLAST to ride. It will easily give you 60+ miles on a charge (no extended battery available or needed). It's not cheap though.
I have to say, I'm a huge fan of this bike and was torn between the two, but ultimately decided to go for the Creo because it's much lighter. I've never ridden a Grail:ON but they look like a blast.