Specialized Vado 4.0 - Beware

steve mercier

Well-Known Member
One factor to remember is that 10, 11, and 12-speed cassettes all fit on the same width hub, which was originally sized when 10-speeds were introduced. So think about how they're able to add one and now two cogs to the cassette in the same total width. The answer of course is to make everything thinner and more closely spaced. This of course is going to have an effect on the strength of the cogs (which could be alleviated by choice of materials) and also requires a narrower chain that is achieved with narrower rollers (matching the thinner cogs) and thinner side plates.

I actually have a minor concern with how the 12-speed setup will wear on the Vado 5.0 SL that I hope to get, and would be really concerned if they put a 12-speed on the full-power Vado line!

And Campagnolo has introduced a 1x13 drivetrain...
In that case for my purposes a 9 or 10 speed setup of heavier duty hard chrome components would be very good , with a gearing range spaced something like this : 11-15-19-23-27-31-35-39-42 (46)
 
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Solom01

Well-Known Member
Maybe consider buying a premium hub drive bike like the Orbea Gain? A lot of people here trash hub motors, but they've never taken a ride on a well made, more expensive hub system such as the Gain. It's a lot more fun to ride a bike that doesn't need constant changing - care of the cassette. I ride a fair amount year round and having to replace the cassette/chain every 1000 - 1,800 miles would be a real pain, especially now that getting anything done in a timely manner at a LBS is next to impossible.
 

TForan

Well-Known Member
Maybe consider buying a premium hub drive bike like the Orbea Gain? A lot of people here trash hub motors, but they've never taken a ride on a well made, more expensive hub system such as the Gain. It's a lot more fun to ride a bike that doesn't need constant changing - care of the cassette. I ride a fair amount year round and having to replace the cassette/chain every 1000 - 1,800 miles would be a real pain, especially now that getting anything done in a timely manner at a LBS is next to impossible.
What a nice looking bike. I wasn't familiar with that maker.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
In that case for my purposes a 9 or 10 speed setup of heavier duty hard chrome components would be very good , with a gearing range spaced something like this : 11-15-19-23-27-31-35-39-42 (46)
I would not accept such big gaps between the gears.
My choice for Vado SL has been 11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-36. 2 teeth between each cog for high gears. Otherwise, you spin in one gear and mash in the next.
 

mclewis1

Member
Region
Canada
City
Fredericton, NB
A hub-drive e-bike gives you no workout whatsoever. Ask me how I know.
Baloney ... please stop with this drivel. You clearly have only experienced poorly implemented hub drive configurations. Done properly a hub drive setup can be a very effective and efficient ebike, one that offers appropriate assist levels where required and smoothly backs off where it's not. And it can be done with more reliability and less ongoing maintenance than mid drive configurations.

So please stop with the definitive comments about what's good or bad when you clearly don't have enough experience to make those broad statements.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
You clearly have only experienced poorly implemented hub drive configurations.
I have ridden for 3873 recorded km on my 250 W hub-drive e-bike. I have owned three other mid-drive motor e-bikes (two Specialized and one Giant). My e-bike mileage has been 15388 km in less than two years. My longest ride was the imperial century.
Baloney? Says who?

So please stop with the definitive comments about what's good or bad when you clearly don't have enough experience to make those broad statements.
Your e-bike achievements please?
 

Rincon

Well-Known Member
A lot of people here trash hub motors, but they've never taken a ride on a well made, more expensive hub system such as the Gain.
I‘ve ridden the Gain. I posted a review of it in the Orbea forum. I also own two Stromer ST2 hub drive bikes. (They are well made and more expensive than the Gain, if that matters.) I like the Stromers, which are torque sensing. I really dislike the Gain which uses a cadence sensor. Nothing wrong with the hub drive though, for specific purposes. The Stromers are great at cruising. Not so great at riding up hills. I’ve had them overheat several times on climbs. The Gain, on the other hand, was always annoying until you found the exact cadence it wanted you to ride at. Heading uphill from a standing start isnt one of the Gain’s strengths.

As to exercise, I’ve burned a lot of calories on both hub and mid drives. They both work well. The hub drives burn the most calories when you’re pushing them uphill. lol
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
Can I guess first? God handed the proclamation down to you engraved on a stone tablet on Mt. Sinai. Am I right? Am I at least close?
You're wrong. Guess better given the information I disclosed in my previous post.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
God sent you a text? (What’s His number?)
Rincon: Could you please answer my question? What was your own contribution in pedalling your Stromers and of Orbea Gain? Or, biker's to motor power ratio? Hard data please. Or calories per 100 km (calculated by a honest method). Just prove your hub drive e-bikes gave you any workout.
 

Rincon

Well-Known Member
Rincon: Could you please answer my question? What was your own contribution in pedalling your Stromers and of Orbea Gain? Or, biker's to motor power ratio? Hard data please. Or calories per 100 km (calculated by a honest method). Just prove your hub drive e-bikes gave you any workout.
Sorry. I no longer waste my time debating anti-vaxxers or anti-hubbers.

You’ve become quite pedantic and proclamatory lately. Also unnecessarily aggressive and defensive even with nubies asking simple questions. I notice that some of your more uncivil posts have been deleted. By the admin? Take a chill pill. Have a massage. Meditate. Be nice. Maybe a five day bike vacation to clear the mind? Your input is valued. I hope you find peace.
 

rochrunner

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Rochester Hills
@Stefan Mikes Why couldn't hub motor bikes give you a workout? Don't they have similar assistance levels? I only rode one once -- a rental Pedego -- and didn't like it for various reasons, but don't remember what my effort was (although some of the time the effort was zero when I tried out the throttle). Of course, that was my first time on any e-bike so I didn't know what to look for.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
Sorry. I no longer waste my time debating anti-vaxxers or anti-hubbers.

You’ve become quite pedantic and proclamatory lately. Also unnecessarily aggressive and defensive even with nubies asking simple questions. I notice that some of your more uncivil posts have been deleted. By the admin? Take a chill pill. Have a massage. Meditate. Be nice. Maybe a five day bike vacation to clear the mind? Your input is valued. I hope you find peace.
I was told not to feed the trolls. And I won't.
I could prove hub motors provide no workout. You cannot prove they do.

The admin wrote to me: "If you cannot get along with some user, simply Ignore them". I wouldn't do it in your case Rincon as you are a valuable person. What is making you become a troll? Your opinions are anecdotal!

@Stefan Mikes Why couldn't hub motor bikes give you a workout? Don't they have similar assistance levels? I only rode one once -- a rental Pedego -- and didn't like it for various reasons, but don't remember what my effort was (although some of the time the effort was zero when I tried out the throttle). Of course, that was my first time on any e-bike so I didn't know what to look for.

How much do you think you would need to throttle a 750 W hub-motor down to ensure at least 1:1 biker/motor power ratio? As I can hear Doug, the 250 W Vado motor is too strong for you even if you can control the assistance in the range of 0-100%. I could do measurements. I can only say: For the first 6 months of riding my 250 W hub-motor e-bike in PAS 1 of 5 I didn't lose any weight. Then I lost 17 kg by riding Vado with my 30% contribution. Now I ride Vado SL with more than 50% contribution, and am losing even more weight.

Vado and Vado SL allow me calculate my contribution, my own Watts and my calories burnt. I can make reliable experiments for my hub-drive motor e-bike, too.
 
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Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
That’s what all admins say. Sugar coating the admonition makes the medicine easier to swallow.
As I said: If you cannot get along with me, Ignore me. Because you prove now you should take your pills yourself.