Speed Versus Newton Meters? I'll take Torque.

timacn

Active Member
A 20mph Class 1 ebike is plenty of speed for me, plus you can ride it in places where many Class 2 or Class 3 bikes wouldn't be permitted. I personally don't need that extra 8 mph, but I would like as much torque as I could get for hills. I've noticed, however, that it's had to find a Class 1 bike offering 65-85 Newton Meters; most of the machines that give that kind of torque are Class 3 bikes, presently illegal in my state and illegal on many bike trails throughout the USA. Anybody know of any Class 1 bikes with impressive (higher) torque ratings? As always, thanks.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
A 20mph Class 1 ebike is plenty of speed for me, plus you can ride it in places where many Class 2 or Class 3 bikes wouldn't be permitted. I personally don't need that extra 8 mph, but I would like as much torque as I could get for hills. I've noticed, however, that it's had to find a Class 1 bike offering 65-85 Newton Meters; most of the machines that give that kind of torque are Class 3 bikes, presently illegal in my state and illegal on many bike trails throughout the USA. Anybody know of any Class 1 bikes with impressive (higher) torque ratings? As always, thanks.
I think you're conflicting.
I don't know the physics, so I need help, but Torque (Nm) x Speed (mph? rpm?) = Power (W)

I think Class 1 has a power limit.. was it 250W? 500W or something?
If you want to get more torque, you will inevitably have to lower the speed.
Therefore you won't be able to reach 20mph.

So if you want a bike with massive torque, and keeping Class 1 wattage (power), you will have to go much slower.
 
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Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
A 20mph Class 1 ebike is plenty of speed for me, plus you can ride it in places where many Class 2 or Class 3 bikes wouldn't be permitted. I personally don't need that extra 8 mph, but I would like as much torque as I could get for hills. I've noticed, however, that it's had to find a Class 1 bike offering 65-85 Newton Meters; most of the machines that give that kind of torque are Class 3 bikes, presently illegal in my state and illegal on many bike trails throughout the USA. Anybody know of any Class 1 bikes with impressive (higher) torque ratings? As always, thanks.
Any e-MTB with its motor from:
  • Specialized (2.1 motor, 90 Nm)
  • Shimano (EP8, 85 Nm)
  • Bosch (CX, 85 Nm)
  • Giant (either EP8 - 85 Nm or Yamaha PW-X2 - 80 Nm)
will be Class 1.

The issue with full suspension e-MTBs is these are darn expensive. And they are not made for riding pavement. Workarounds:
  • Find a hardtail e-MTB. It will reduce the cost because the rear suspension adds a lot to the e-MTB price
  • Replace the off-road tyres with Schwalbe Johnny Watts (premium tyres allowing the e-bike ride both pavement and dirt/rock)
  • Add a special rack (I can help with information). You can add external lighting, and MTB fenders.
Another possibility is buying a SUV e-bike. Many e-bikes from Riese & Muller or Moustache can be ordered as Class 1.

After having said all the above, I realized that Trek Allant+ 7 (not "S") and Allant+ 8 (not "S") were Class 1 e-bikes.
-----------------------------
You cannot, however, ask a full power e-bike to be lightweight.
 

Timpo

Well-Known Member
I still think asking for lots of torque and asking for 20mph is conflicting.
For example, with Specialized's 90Nm, it will be 804W if you want to reach 20mph.

I know it's all theoretical, but if you ask lots of torque, the wattage will inevitably increase if you want 20mph.

 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
Torque and power are interrelated and have not very much to do with the speed itself. The torque is critical for climbing. The Specialized 1.3 and 2.1 motors (90 Nm) deliver 550 W of peak power.

I cannot understand what you are saying Timpo. How comes I can reach 24 mph with my 90 Nm, 520 W peak power Specialized 1.2s motor easily? Again, torque is important for climbing.
 

MartsEbike

Well-Known Member
Region
Other
If you're not after more speed then I'd just get myself a nice wide cassette and get more "torque at the wheel"...
 

retiredNH

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
We need a separate discussion of hub drive versus mid drive too. With mid drive, there's torque at the motor, and torque at the rear wheel. The latter is what matters, and is affected by the gearing.

Torque versus power? Gets complicated very quickly if one adds speed to the discussion....