ST2 Availability update

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
I was hoping that ST2 might be available by Sep/Oct this year but looks like it won't be here until Spring 2015.
Big bummer..!!
Well, with the price of ST2 expected at $7000, I might as well think about Brammo or Zero S.

Stromer will debut the ST2 at this Interbike but won't be available for purchase until Spring 2015 (according to this video)

 

Shea N Encinitas

Active Member
Yeah while I'd love that battery (Stromer's ST2), I don't really care about smart phone integration or expensive design features. Trim some weight, empower common folks to go for distance... or get that Zero!
 

Brambor

Well-Known Member
I think that is ridiculous. I would not buy this bike on principle. Companies who get customers all excited about a product with what their marketing campaign did to us and then won't sell the product for more than a year ... should basically get kicked in the balls... or the more grownup way of NOT BUYING :)


I was hoping that ST2 might be available by Sep/Oct this year but looks like it won't be here until Spring 2015.
Big bummer..!!
Well, with the price of ST2 expected at $7000, I might as well think about Brammo or Zero S.

Stromer will debut the ST2 at this Interbike but won't be available for purchase until Spring 2015 (according to this video)

 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
I think that is ridiculous. I would not buy this bike on principle. Companies who get customers all excited about a product with what their marketing campaign did to us and then won't sell the product for more than a year ... should basically get kicked in the balls... or the more grownup way of NOT BUYING :)

Agree. It questions their integrity. Companies like this shoot themselves in the foot.
Well, with marketing anything possible. But there is no point in waiting.
 

Brambor

Well-Known Member
correct. There are some awesome alternatives out there. btw - what is the combined weight of the ST2 ? I have a hard time lifting the ST1 onto the roof rack.
 
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MarcD

Active Member
I don't see how the ST 2 could possibly be lighter with an 814wh battery. I also see the motor tops out at 35 Nm of torque, less than the Elite, a Dash, Turbo, Easy Motion (all Dapu models) and many others. It may not be a consideration for all, but as a bigger guy with significant climbs on my commute, I would never want to go under 40Nm. The ST1 platinum struggled up a couple of hills that the Elite and the Turbo had no issues with. Something to consider.
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
I don't see how the ST 2 could possibly be lighter with an 814wh battery. I also see the motor tops out at 35 Nm of torque, less than the Elite, a Dash, Turbo, Easy Motion (all Dapu models) and many others. It may not be a consideration for all, but as a bigger guy with significant climbs on my commute, I would never want to go under 40Nm. The ST1 platinum struggled up a couple of hills that the Elite and the Turbo had no issues with. Something to consider.

I have tried to understand the Torque specification on E-bikes and it looks more like a marketing gimmick. I have spoken to Currie and EM tech guys, none of them have any clue how these values are reported.
Torque is measured at the hub? or the crank? or the derailluer? this is unclear and therefore Torque values specified by these companies should be taken with a pinch of salt [IMO]
Especially, some of the Chinese motor manufacturers exaggerate the numbers.

Bosch says 60Nm , Yamaha says 70Nm and TranzX -> 60Nm to 70Nm but where is it? is it amplified at the wheels through the gears?
Bosch 1.JPG TranzX.JPG Yamaha.JPG

Now compare that with Brammo Empulse motorcycles with 10KWh battery, they also report it to be 63Nm and I find that amusing.

Vrammo.JPG

The only way they would keep the weight constant is if they used higher density Li-ion cells. Also, I think Stromer doesn't weigh the US market on par with EU market.
 

MarcD

Active Member
Ravi - I agree with the examples you provided and the fuzziness around torque. The examples I was comparing are all DD hub motors, though. Unless I am completely misunderstanding things, with a hub motor there is much less uncertainty around the value because there is no transmission or drivetrain loss. The crank and deraillleur would be irrelevant is measuring a hub motor's torque.
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Ravi - I agree with the examples you provided and the fuzziness around torque. The examples I was comparing are all DD hub motors, though. Unless I am completely misunderstanding things, with a hub motor there is much less uncertainty around the value because there is no transmission or drivetrain loss. The crank and deraillleur would be irrelevant is measuring a hub motor's torque.

Thanks for the clarification, Marc. You're right.
I always hear that mid-drives provide better climbing because of the enhanced torque etc
Still learning to wrap my head around these technical specs and how it translates to real world utility.
 

DashRiprock

Active Member
Thanks for the clarification, Marc. You're right.
I always hear that mid-drives provide better climbing because of the enhanced torque etc
Still learning to wrap my head around these technical specs and how it translates to real world utility.
I couldn't agree with you both more and suspect that the hub motor specs. are often questionable as well. One of these days (I'm guessing) a connected ebike enthusiast up here on the net will have some kind of connection with a shop doing 'dyno' work for the motorsports industry and the ruse will be over for some manufacturers. This measurement may be more complicated than that (I doubt it) yet these machines are pretty incredible and are a lot more commonly found than in days past.
As for Stromer's insistence above that the spring of 2015 is worth waiting for...I'm hoping that the market gets past (fast) this seemingly longstanding notion that America is the red-headed-stepchild when it comes to treating customers in this manner (I would compare this attitude to the arrogance that we witnessed at the IMBA Summit a short time ago).
 
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Gus

Active Member
Have you guys seen Visiobike? Not the sexiest bike by any stretch but it is bringing much more of a complete eBike package that combines the best of tech. Really concealed mid-drive motor, full carbon fiber, belt driven, actual usable smartphone integration (use your phone as the rear camera's display, speedometer, motor controls, GPS navigation), Nuvinci transmission, Google Glasses integration, and the list goes on. Now this is a bike that makes me look forward to what is coming down the eBike road. The ST2 not so much :( The ST2 offers great theft protection but not at a $7,000 price tag + monthly cellular data costs.

I hope that some of the better ST2 features (larger battery, smaller motor, USB port, top tube display) make it into the replacement for the ST1 price range crowd. I'll probably have my ST1 driven into the ground by the ST4 launch, so I'll look forward to that one.
 

Shea N Encinitas

Active Member
I think it's plenty sexy, but 6000 Euros (500 watt carbon) = $8,154 US Dollars, 1000 Euros of that is of course shipping ($1,359), maybe you live over there..

Where are the specs? WEIGHT? With all that phone integration it reminds me of the ST2. Looks like a cheap fork, just like one that came with my Dash ($2,600), which is pretty much dead at 2K. Thanks for sharing it, always fun to see what people are engineering. -S
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Have you guys seen Visiobike? Not the sexiest bike by any stretch but it is bringing much more of a complete eBike package that combines the best of tech. Really concealed mid-drive motor, full carbon fiber, belt driven, actual usable smartphone integration (use your phone as the rear camera's display, speedometer, motor controls, GPS navigation), Nuvinci transmission, Google Glasses integration, and the list goes on. Now this is a bike that makes me look forward to what is coming down the eBike road. The ST2 not so much :( The ST2 offers great theft protection but not at a $7,000 price tag + monthly cellular data costs.

I hope that some of the better ST2 features (larger battery, smaller motor, USB port, top tube display) make it into the replacement for the ST1 price range crowd. I'll probably have my ST1 driven into the ground by the ST4 launch, so I'll look forward to that one.

Back in May, this Visiobike was on Indiegogo (http://electricbikereview.com/community/threads/visiobike-from-eu.370/)
and received massive press coverage. But the campaign failed massively (only 5% raised of the total).
I think few people may like it but most people just want a simple, reliable system with a pricetag that doesn't break your bank.