Stromer ST1 vs. ST2

Cory151

Active Member
Hey guys new to the forum just wanted to check in after spending the last 4 days with an ST-1 and purchasing the ST-2, today. Both are great bikes and one will not get you there any faster than the other, so why did I get the ST2? I had already bought and paid for an ST1, but we never discussed frame size ( I am 6ft tall 200lbs), so I never though anything of it. When the subject of frame size did come up they just so happened to have a "20" ST2 on the floor vs the "16.5" I rode the last 4 days. So I left up-sold but happy. After I remove that city kit it should be a good-looking bike. Ive got a few quick questions.

1) I ordered a body glide seat post when I thought I would be getting the ST-1, will it fit the ST-2?

2) Anybody prefer the simplicity of the ST1 vs the ST2?

3) That motor feels so much more capable than 28mph, are there any performance codes (other than in the app) to program into the ST2 for higher boost and more sensitivity, as you could on the ST1?

3) Is boost mode still available on the ST2?
 
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Cory151

Active Member
Assist level 3 is boost mode on ST2.

PS: I ride one.

On the ST-1 "boost" was pressing the farthest right selector button which activated the motor to accelerate the bike up to 12 mph (without pedaling) or until the rider let go of the button. Almost like a throttle switch (limited to 12mph). It was kind of nice to have.
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
On the ST-1 "boost" was pressing the farthest right selector button which activated the motor to accelerate the bike up to 12 mph (without pedaling) or until the rider let go of the button. Almost like a throttle switch (limited to 12mph). It was kind of nice to have.
Actually, it's still the same.
On most other bikes, "Boost" mode is one of the higher levels of assist and I thought you're asking in that context. So, on ST2, "Boost" mode is like poor man's throttle.
 

Cory151

Active Member
Since this is titled an St1 vs S2 thread i figured Id give some initial observations and contrast between the two.

-The ST2 has more low end grunt, as we all hear the 35nm of torque getting thrown around a lot, yet I don't ever recall what the torque measurement is on the ST1? Yes, the St2 will get you to 28 mph with more authority. After 28mph though, it feels as if they cut the power very abruptly, more so actually than the ST1 plat(makes me wonder if the easiest and cheapest performance hack for these bikes is simply fooling the speeds sensor, so the computer never "sees" above 27 mph). In car terms St2 feels more like a 200hp 5 liter V8 and the ST1 feels like a 200 hp 2 liter, both will run the same number, but they do feel different.

-Connectivity. The in App connectivity is (Im assuming) a work in progress. I spent more time trying to figure it out than I did riding the first day. Half of my request either didn't go through or simply took an eternity to actuate. Probably not a huge deal for some but I live very close to Mexico, where everything that gets stollen ends up (when my truck was stolen it was across the border never to return, in under 15 minutes, according to low jack).

-The difference in weight distribution between the St1 and St2 feels very minimal. Taking the controller out of the hub and placing it under the crank was likely more for serviceability and heat protection rather than weight distribution, you are still aware that you on a rear hub motor bike (which I happen to love and think it makes the most sense).

-The ST2 feels more solid and more put together, gone is the occasional head shake under hard breaking conditions I experienced with the St1.

-The display for the ST1 is obviously not nearly as sexy as for the ST2 but you are looking between your legs to see it rather than at your handlebars.

-I think they are both great looking bikes, but I thing the ST2 minus the "shitty kit" :D looks awesome. I think the Stromer line is hands down the best looking e-bike under $10k.

-The bars feel a little lower to me on the ST2 vs the ST1.

-The ability to increase motor breaking is something I value, Im hoping the ST2 regens more than the ST1. This should decrease brake wear over time for the same reason the average Prius can go 100k without needing new breaks Update: I was able to recoupe 2% battery power while using manual regen(maxed out<<<<) to slow me on a long downhill.

Anthony was nice enough to post up some observations an the ST2 in another thread, if anybody has anything to add to help people make buying decisions, please do. Below are the two bikes Ive been commuting.


(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
post a picture


(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
photo hosting sites
 
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Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
The biggest difference b/w ST2 and ST1 is the battery and the motor.
814 Whr removes "range anxiety" to certain extent and the 48V motor + the ability to tune Torque, speed is unique.
Sure, you can get a 48V, 32Ah Juiced Rider but that's a completely different bike altogether.
 

opimax

Well-Known Member
after trying to keep up w/Ravi who used to have to make an effort to keep up w/me on his BH is it is FASTER! the torque of being able to keep up speed on even a slight hill shows itself. I have yet to trade w/him and see if if it is Ravi who has improved or his bike. Maybe next time he will let me ride it. Range anxiety can be conquered by add'l batterres and panniers. I am hoping Stromer makes a stripped ST2 , basically a ST1 w battery and motor form ST2
 

Shea N Encinitas

Active Member
I am hoping Stromer makes a stripped ST2 , basically a ST1 w battery and motor form ST2
While I doubt that will happen I agree with the idea of opting out of the techno cellular stuff that I've been living just fine without. Still sporting a flip phone with texting disabled, no leash to work and no devolutionary conversation vollies. -S
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
after trying to keep up w/Ravi who used to have to make an effort to keep up w/me on his BH is it is FASTER! the torque of being able to keep up speed on even a slight hill shows itself. I have yet to trade w/him and see if if it is Ravi who has improved or his bike. Maybe next time he will let me ride it. Range anxiety can be conquered by add'l batterres and panniers. I am hoping Stromer makes a stripped ST2 , basically a ST1 w battery and motor form ST2

Of course I will let you ride, Mark. You're my good friend :)
 

opimax

Well-Known Member
I know you will :) Wasn't that was your 1st or so ride, new toy syndrome. Besides I need you to break it in so it is perfect before I ride.
 

GW Shark

Member
Since this is titled an St1 vs S2 thread i figured Id give some initial observations and contrast between the two.

-The ST2 has more low end grunt, as we all hear the 35nm of torque getting thrown around a lot, yet I don't ever recall what the torque measurement is on the ST1? Yes, the St2 will get you to 28 mph with more authority. After 28mph though, it feels as if they cut the power very abruptly, more so actually than the ST1 plat(makes me wonder if the easiest and cheapest performance hack for these bikes is simply fooling the speeds sensor, so the computer never "sees" above 27 mph). In car terms St2 feels more like a 200hp 5 liter V8 and the ST1 feels like a 200 hp 2 liter, both will run the same number, but they do feel different.

-Connectivity. The in App connectivity is (Im assuming) a work in progress. I spent more time trying to figure it out than I did riding the first day. Half of my request either didn't go through or simply took an eternity to actuate. Probably not a huge deal for some but I live very close to Mexico, where everything that gets stollen ends up (when my truck was stolen it was across the border never to return, in under 15 minutes, according to low jack).

-The difference in weight distribution between the St1 and St2 feels very minimal. Taking the controller out of the hub and placing it under the crank was likely more for serviceability and heat protection rather than weight distribution, you are still aware that you on a rear hub motor bike (which I happen to love and think it makes the most sense).

-The ST2 feels more solid and more put together, gone is the occasional head shake under hard breaking conditions I experienced with the St1.

-The display for the ST1 is obviously not nearly as sexy as for the ST2 but you are looking between your legs to see it rather than at your handlebars.

-I think they are both great looking bikes, but I thing the ST2 minus the "shitty kit" :D looks awesome. I think the Stromer line is hands down the best looking e-bike under $10k.

-The bars feel a little lower to me on the ST2 vs the ST1.

-The ability to increase motor breaking is something I value, Im hoping the ST2 regens more than the ST1. This should decrease brake wear over time for the same reason the average Prius can go 100k without needing new breaks Update: I was able to recoupe 2% battery power while using manual regen(maxed out<<<<) to slow me on a long downhill.

Anthony was nice enough to post up some observations an the ST2 in another thread, if anybody has anything to add to help people make buying decisions, please do. Below are the two bikes Ive been commuting.


(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
post a picture


(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
photo hosting sites
Cory,
Can you add any other thoughts since you have had it for about 6 weeks. I respect your candid approach.
 

Cory151

Active Member
Cory,
Can you add any other thoughts since you have had it for about 6 weeks. I respect your candid approach.


Absolutely.

I have put about 350 miles on the bike after about 6 weeks of ownership. The bike serves as a commuter vehicle about 2-4 times per week. Some days I just drive my car/truck to work (especially if I have something big to pick up or drop off, or poor weather). I also run 75% of my errands around town on the ST2, including 25 mile round trips to and from a weekly Ultimate Frisbee game. The Stromer has me thinking of offing my previous errand vehicle. I only ride in power mode 3 (yes max assist).

I have owned a 1999 Honda Elite 80 scooter for about the last 5 years and I have not ridden it once since I got the ST2. It is 50cc and will get up to about 38-40mph on flat ground. Neither can be driven on the highway so it makes more sense for me to simply take the Stromer as I am able to use bike lanes and roll through 4 ways like any other cyclist. Speaking of other cyclists….

My encounters with other cyclists have been more positive than I anticipated. In fact, most are extremely curious about the ST2 rather than the apparent disdain and disgust that they seem to have for guys on the 49cc China Girl, BroPeds. I have not come upon a road bike rider that I haven't been able to easily pass. Many times they'll catch up at the next stoplight and I try to be as polite and engauging as possible. I figure, he thinks he's a purist and I am not for riding an e-bike. While I think that since we both paid around $7,000 for our bikes he's the Luddite. :) If I have time, I allow anybody who comes up to me and ask about it to "take it for a spin." This may seem risky but they usually never leave my sight and I do take comfort in the fact that; via the Stromer app I know where the bike is at all time (not to mention the ability to lock the rear hub at moments notice). Every now and then I run into another Stromer owner yet we never really seem to talk, just a silent hat tip and a mention of him mentioning he saw me a few times to the local Stromer dealer.

Speaking of the App/Omni, it is getting better and more responsive with each update. I now have access to Imperial Units of measure and my request for function changes seem to be faster and smoother. I will say though that taking your eyes off the road to read a speed or distance on the Omni is still very dodgy at best (especially at 28mph). My initial impression that the ST1 had a safer placement of the display hold more conviction than ever. For whatever reason I like to constantly know my speed and use the max regen for braking on hills.

Selectable regen is something I use 1-2 per ride while going down hill. By hold the minus selector switch next to the right handgrip you are able to select 5 levels of regenerative braking power. When going down a steep hill I will click down to max regen and allow gravity to pour 15 amp hours back into the battery (unless you are at full charge). Regardless of the power recuperation, I like that it can slow or stop you without a brake pad ever touching a disc.

One of best mods in my opinion, is the "rider mod." Meaning actually knowing how to ride a hard tale bike at higher speeds. Things like relaxing your grip on the bars over rough terrain, looking ahead to pic the smoothest available line and standing up at the correct times. While I do have a body float suspension seat post, it does not convert your solid suspension bike to a full suspension bike. You are talking about an inch of travel at the most, you must learn through seat time how to ride a powered hard tail. Speaking of power..

When I leave an intersection I am faster than most cars to 28 mph, having said that, your relationship with cars changes on an powerful e-bike. On a 25 mph rode you will have the option and power to pass many of the cars. When a typical driver passes a typical cyclist it is more of a relief in that, the driver no longer has to concern himself with a slow but moving (and somewhat unpredictable) obstacle. On a typical 25 or 30mph speed limited road some will simply choose to follow you while some would rather pass and have the stressor behind them. When you pass a car they don't know the are being passed because on you almost never get passed on the right while moving and never by a cyclist. For this reason I am a big fan of using the Stromers LED daytime running light as intend and ride as defensively as possible.

Lastly, reliability up to this point has been nothing short of perfect, I have not had one issue with the bike. I leave my charger at work so I only need to charge it 2 or 3x per week and it just fires up and doe what its supposed to. My ST2 never leaves the biggest front chainring as I do not see the point of doing so. Ive not yet been able to kill my battery either and I don't know that Id want to sit on a bike long enough to kill the ST2 Battery.

One last thing that I am hesitant to mention is that I actually jump my ST2 a few times a week. On the raised, paved bike path to work there is a break in the path for a road that sits about 12 inches below the path. The path goes down 1 foot in elevation followed by about 15 feet of flat rode followed by a rather steep 1 ft incline \____________________/ returning the path to its original elevation. Going 28mph I am able to get both wheels about 10-12 inches off the ground (If I had to guess). The bike is surprisingly neutral in air and there is definitely a gyroscopic effect of the hub motor which seems to keep the bike pointed straight with no lean. Just thought Id put this in here someplace as in case one somebody is being chased by zombies and didn't want to slow down for a short steep incline.

My only complaint would probably be price, as the ST1 will get me to and from my commute in the same time and manner as the ST2. If you recall I originally purchased an ST1 but the wrong frame size came in so I bought the ST2 floor model instead. I am happy with my purchase and the anti theft /tracking features on the ST2 are great. However if you can do without the bells and whistles the ST1 is a much better value, especially if your over 40 and actually uses your cell phone for little else other than phone calls buy the ST1.



ST2 Wishlist:
-20mph boost mode (up from 12mph)
-option of 30-33 mph top speed (up from 28)
-In App course tracking via Omni, so I can compare my times on same routes.

While these may seem trivial, I think it would make better use of the extra battery capacity that I many do not use on daily basis. It is clear that the battery size and motor capabilities are up for task so it would simply be a small firmware change.

Post up if you have any specific questions that I may be able to help with. I haven't been very active as of late on here because Id rather ride than talk about riding. Also I think it'd be cool if we did some kind of group e-bike ride for people near each other. Im thinking SeaWorld to Carlsbad and with a nice arrival meal catered by Stromer USA in Carlsbad. ;)
 
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GW Shark

Member
Thank you Cory.
A few other questions when you have the opportunity: Do you feel that the application of the power is smoother on this ST2 than on your ST1 that you did with your demo? What is recommended service for the bike? Are the updates constant to Omni like with a Microsoft Windows OS or more like an Apple iOS regarding frequency. Lastly, would the bike be functional without Omni updates, in other words can you pass on the updates?
Thank you again as I am contemplating an ST2 over my current ST1, but don't want to move without getting a true users perspective. Again, much thanks
 

Cuong Tran

New Member
Thanks, great info. The ST2 is a good looking bike.

You made a comment about road bike people that made me laugh. There is a lot of them where I live. I use my ST1 to commute to work 28 miles one way. I get on the road about 5.30 in the morning. Takes me about 1 hour 20 mins to get to work. On the way home one day I can a cross a guy on a road bike guy. I thought the guy was cool until he started to make smart ass comments about the my bike. I told him why do you give a sh*t of what I use to commute home from work and why does he care so much of what bike a ride. Just like I don't give a f*ck of what bike he is riding. He had nothing to say and drop back.
 
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Cory151

Active Member
Thanks, great info. The ST2 is a good looking bike.

You made a comment about road bike people that made me laugh. There is a lot of them where I live. I use my ST1 to commute to work 28 miles one way. I get on the road about 5.30 in the morning. Takes me about 1 hour 20 mins to get to work. On the way home one day I can a cross a guy on a road bike guy. I thought the guy was cool until he started to make smart ass comments about the my bike. I told him why do you give a sh*t of what I use to commute home from work and why does he care so much of what bike a ride. Just like I don't give a f*ck of what bike he is riding. He had nothing to say and drop back.


Exactly. Its Luddite mentality, I let them do there thing and I go about my business. I think since some of the big road bike manufactures i.e; Giant and Specialized are now slinging there own e-bikes at there own dealerships it won't be such a shock to them on the bike paths.
 

Cory151

Active Member
Thank you Cory.
A few other questions when you have the opportunity: Do you feel that the application of the power is smoother on this ST2 than on your ST1 that you did with your demo? What is recommended service for the bike? Are the updates constant to Omni like with a Microsoft Windows OS or more like an Apple iOS regarding frequency. Lastly, would the bike be functional without Omni updates, in other words can you pass on the updates?
Thank you again as I am contemplating an ST2 over my current ST1, but don't want to move without getting a true users perspective. Again, much thanks

I will have to get back to you on the service, as I am not 100% certain on that. There is an electronic service record on the App but to my knowledge I don't recall if the bike is supposed to be taken in, ever. I just figured out how to scan for trouble codes on the Omni (though I had none). Basically, the bike has a self diagnostic system similar to the OBD2 system on a car, but I think the ST1 had that as well.
The updated are more like iOS in that I gain usability with every update (there has only been one update since Ive owned the bike), and yes I did have the option to decline the update. Overall updates on the Omni are seamless, very much like all Tesla vehicles in fact.

I actually believe, contrarily, power application was smoother on the ST1 and partially because the motor had a little less torque than the ST2. I felt as though it was hard to tell you were being helped on the ST1 (though you clearly are), where as on the ST2 (level 3 assist), you can feel the bike surging forward a little with each pedal stroke. The best thing you can do is ride them back to back in my opinion.
 

PowerMe

Well-Known Member
Ask Ravi K. some questions about his ST2 as well since he's been riding that for the last couple of months.

You bring up a good point about other cyclists though: WHY do they care what anyone else rides? Do they get upset if someone isn't driving the same car they do?
 

J.R.

Well-Known Member
Ask Ravi K. some questions about his ST2 as well since he's been riding that for the last couple of months.

You bring up a good point about other cyclists though: WHY do they care what anyone else rides? Do they get upset if someone isn't driving the same car they do?
Road bikers in my area are the most friendly of the cyclists I see! I know most people don't experience that, but I do. I don't know why it is that some folks feel if they can't convince you of your "wrongs", they don't want anything to do with you. I have a Ford P-U and a Harley, most of those folks are rabid! My possessions don't own me I own them. I like them or I wouldn't have them, but I won't sell their brand to anyone.
 

PowerMe

Well-Known Member
Well my "n" (population) is still too small to make definitive statements, but I can tell you that based on the reactions I got at last week's Slow Spokes ride, it was more a combo of curiosity/horror than curiosity/kumbaya. And, except for the female host of the group, the other women who were there were quite unfriendly; the guys were, mostly, much more accepting and friendly. I suspect the women would be unfriendly regardless of what bike another female was riding. I smiled at and said hello to everyone. Not my problem if they don't like the "e" in eBikes.
 

Cameron Newland

Well-Known Member
Absolutely.

I have put about 350 miles on the bike after about 6 weeks of ownership. The bike serves as a commuter vehicle about 2-4 times per week. Some days I just drive my car/truck to work (especially if I have something big to pick up or drop off, or poor weather). I also run 75% of my errands around town on the ST2, including 25 mile round trips to and from a weekly Ultimate Frisbee game. The Stromer has me thinking of offing my previous errand vehicle. I only ride in power mode 3 (yes max assist).

I have owned a 1999 Honda Elite 80 scooter for about the last 5 years and I have not ridden it once since I got the ST2. It is 50cc and will get up to about 38-40mph on flat ground. Neither can be driven on the highway so it makes more sense for me to simply take the Stromer as I am able to use bike lanes and roll through 4 ways like any other cyclist. Speaking of other cyclists….

My encounters with other cyclists have been more positive than I anticipated. In fact, most are extremely curious about the ST2 rather than the apparent disdain and disgust that they seem to have for guys on the 49cc China Girl, BroPeds. I have not come upon a road bike rider that I haven't been able to easily pass. Many times they'll catch up at the next stoplight and I try to be as polite and engauging as possible. I figure, he thinks he's a purist and I am not for riding an e-bike. While I think that since we both paid around $7,000 for our bikes he's the Luddite. :) If I have time, I allow anybody who comes up to me and ask about it to "take it for a spin." This may seem risky but they usually never leave my sight and I do take comfort in the fact that; via the Stromer app I know where the bike is at all time (not to mention the ability to lock the rear hub at moments notice). Every now and then I run into another Stromer owner yet we never really seem to talk, just a silent hat tip and a mention of him mentioning he saw me a few times to the local Stromer dealer.

Speaking of the App/Omni, it is getting better and more responsive with each update. I now have access to Imperial Units of measure and my request for function changes seem to be faster and smoother. I will say though that taking your eyes off the road to read a speed or distance on the Omni is still very dodgy at best (especially at 28mph). My initial impression that the ST1 had a safer placement of the display hold more conviction than ever. For whatever reason I like to constantly know my speed and use the max regen for braking on hills.

Selectable regen is something I use 1-2 per ride while going down hill. By hold the minus selector switch next to the right handgrip you are able to select 5 levels of regenerative braking power. When going down a steep hill I will click down to max regen and allow gravity to pour 15 amp hours back into the battery (unless you are at full charge). Regardless of the power recuperation, I like that it can slow or stop you without a brake pad ever touching a disc.

One of best mods in my opinion, is the "rider mod." Meaning actually knowing how to ride a hard tale bike at higher speeds. Things like relaxing your grip on the bars over rough terrain, looking ahead to pic the smoothest available line and standing up at the correct times. While I do have a body float suspension seat post, it does not convert your solid suspension bike to a full suspension bike. You are talking about an inch of travel at the most, you must learn through seat time how to ride a powered hard tail. Speaking of power..

When I leave an intersection I am faster than most cars to 28 mph, having said that, your relationship with cars changes on an powerful e-bike. On a 25 mph rode you will have the option and power to pass many of the cars. When a typical driver passes a typical cyclist it is more of a relief in that, the driver no longer has to concern himself with a slow but moving (and somewhat unpredictable) obstacle. On a typical 25 or 30mph speed limited road some will simply choose to follow you while some would rather pass and have the stressor behind them. When you pass a car they don't know the are being passed because on you almost never get passed on the right while moving and never by a cyclist. For this reason I am a big fan of using the Stromers LED daytime running light as intend and ride as defensively as possible.

Lastly, reliability up to this point has been nothing short of perfect, I have not had one issue with the bike. I leave my charger at work so I only need to charge it 2 or 3x per week and it just fires up and doe what its supposed to. My ST2 never leaves the biggest front chainring as I do not see the point of doing so. Ive not yet been able to kill my battery either and I don't know that Id want to sit on a bike long enough to kill the ST2 Battery.

One last thing that I am hesitant to mention is that I actually jump my ST2 a few times a week. On the raised, paved bike path to work there is a break in the path for a road that sits about 12 inches below the path. The path goes down 1 foot in elevation followed by about 15 feet of flat rode followed by a rather steep 1 ft incline \____________________/ returning the path to its original elevation. Going 28mph I am able to get both wheels about 10-12 inches off the ground (If I had to guess). The bike is surprisingly neutral in air and there is definitely a gyroscopic effect of the hub motor which seems to keep the bike pointed straight with no lean. Just thought Id put this in here someplace as in case one somebody is being chased by zombies and didn't want to slow down for a short steep incline.

My only complaint would probably be price, as the ST1 will get me to and from my commute in the same time and manner as the ST2. If you recall I originally purchased an ST1 but the wrong frame size came in so I bought the ST2 floor model instead. I am happy with my purchase and the anti theft /tracking features on the ST2 are great. However if you can do without the bells and whistles the ST1 is a much better value, especially if your over 40 and actually uses your cell phone for little else other than phone calls buy the ST1.



ST2 Wishlist:
-20mph boost mode (up from 12mph)
-option of 30-33 mph top speed (up from 28)
-In App course tracking via Omni, so I can compare my times on same routes.

While these may seem trivial, I think it would make better use of the extra battery capacity that I many do not use on daily basis. It is clear that the battery size and motor capabilities are up for task so it would simply be a small firmware change.

Post up if you have any specific questions that I may be able to help with. I haven't been very active as of late on here because Id rather ride than talk about riding. Also I think it'd be cool if we did some kind of group e-bike ride for people near each other. Im thinking SeaWorld to Carlsbad and with a nice arrival meal catered by Stromer USA in Carlsbad. ;)

The 2015 IZIP E3 Dash hits 30-33mph and 20mph throttle boost mode when in any pedal assist mode and at less than half the price, however, all the other specs on the Dash are lower-end (e.g. no hydraulic brakes, no GPS tracking, etc). The Dash is like the Ford Mustang GT of ebikes, whereas the ST2 is the Porsche or the BMW M4. ;-)

I love Stromers and I would buy one if they end up going mid-drive and offering Gates Carbon Drive and an IGH and pairing it with their GPS tracking, but I have no idea if they're going that route or not. I'm still waiting for the truly next-gen bike to come along before I sell my Dash and upgrade, but I'm afraid I'll have to wait until 2017 before something suitable comes along.

That's crazy that you've been getting air on your Stromer! I'm afraid to do anything like that, especially because my bike isn't running a full suspension. Remember to keep the rubber side up! ;-)