Stuck thumb throttle almost got me killed

Have had two Rize bikes, first one is great, therefore decided to buy a commuter mid drive from same company. Unfortunately, l think l have a lemon. First….to date, customer service has been great. They’ve replaced a freewheel after 7th gear broke some teeth. Company admits they had issues. Just got a new replacement battery as the original had issues getting any reasonable distance per charge. Today went for first ride with new battery. Just a quick 30 second ride to see if all systems go. Always use throttle to overcome initial inertia. Seemed fine, turned around to get home and go for ride later. Stopped, straddled bike, took hands off brakes….bike took off like bucking bronco. Finally, got under control by shutting power off, not easy because hands had to stay on brakes. Noticed small wrench error sign…04. Checked manual…no 04 error message. Go online, see Juiced Bikes has an 04 error message. Indicates a throttle issue. Check bike….sure enough the throttle had not snapped back. Played with it, got it unstuck, error message disappears. Happens again though, but bike is at 0 PAS, so no problem.
Here’s the rub…l could have had this happen a hundred yards further at a busy intersection, lots of cross traffic. Had l taken my hands off brake there, could have bolted into traffic. Might have been my demise.
Waiting to hear back from Rize, 2 phone calls and an email. Have lost all confidence in bike. How could l morally sell this to someone and not tell them about this? I sure don’t want to keep it now. Bike has 100 miles on it. Mostly, it’s been waiting for parts or in LBS. Check your throttle readers.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Rick, don't loose sight of the fact that when you purchase a direct to consumer bike, YOU (or whoever assembled the bike for you) are the test pilot, head mechanic, and the one responsible for avoiding situations like you had with the throttle. Safety inspections are on you.

Note that it only takes one properly functioning brake switch to shut down the power to the motor/bike.

Sounds like you had an interesting ride. Glad to hear you're fine and you've identified the problem. What was it by the way, that was preventing the throttle from returning properly?
 
Basically, the thumb throttle just stuck. When pressed and released sometimes worked...other times remains stuck. Scariest thing... is l would never have believed this could happen. They're sending me a new throttle...but now l know NOT to trust it will release itself when applied. I use my throttle at times on my heavier fat tire bike when biking on trails near my house, when my momentum slows. I must stress that customer service is good...but l would not recommend using the throttle on this commuter e bike if there is traffic. The KEY TAKEAWAY here is.... don't trust your throttle regardless of who sells it! I may not replace the throttle or disable it rather than use.
 

harryS

Well-Known Member
Nothing more than a piece of plastic and a return spring. There's a magnet embedded in the plastic that rotates around a Hall sensor to generate the throttle voltage.
cutaway.jpg

There's several common trouble spots.

One is when the handgrip is too close to the throttle and prevents it from springing back. This has happened to me.

Another is a break in the wire. The throttle has three wires, power, ground, and signal. If the ground wire breaks, you get full throttle. I've seen this too.

Another is if the wiring gets wet, the throttle may come on. This has happened to my wife.

Oh well, this is why we have ebrake cutoffs.
 

vincent

Well-Known Member
Doesn’t that bike have brake motor cutoffs? So it should have killed power just from squeezing the brakes..??

One time I was changing handlebars and tightened down my throttle too much, it started to stick
Not 100% sure if I had to close to something else or if I cranked down the cheap plastic too tight but that might be another thing
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
Thanks so much for info. Still very wary now. Cheers, R
Good attitude. Though I couldn't agree more that it's a very simple device, they can screw up. Throttle is too valuable a feature to abandon. Give it a chance to earn your trust back.

Kinda like a front or rear brake malfunction that scares you into next week. You wouldn't stop using it. You would fix it and move on, no?
 

mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Good attitude. Though I couldn't agree more that it's a very simple device, they can screw up. Throttle is too valuable a feature to abandon. Give it a chance to earn your trust back.

Kinda like a front or rear brake malfunction that scares you into next week. You wouldn't stop using it. You would fix it and move on, no?

bikes have two brakes though, for good reason. very unlikely both will fail at once since they're completely unrelated systems other than both being attached to the handlebars. a throttle ripping you into traffic? unless the failure mode was something i could check for visually at every ride i would not use a bike with that part ever again.

@Rick badgolfer glad you were able to get it under control without a disaster!
 
Yesterday to prove to Rize...they asked me to take pics to see if could replicate. In PAS 0 with throttle stuck 1\2 way and brake on....nothing. Put in PAS 1......both brakes on with throttle in same 1\2 position, bike wanted to take off again....but did not show 04 error code. Perhaps 04 comes on if you have it on more. I did point 1 mile the day of event
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
I would be more concerned that with both brakes pulled power was allowed to the motor - under ANY condition.

One of them should do the job, but power to the motor when both are pulled? THAT needs attention!
 

mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I would be more concerned that with both brakes pulled power was allowed to the motor - under ANY condition.

One of them should do the job, but power to the motor when both are pulled? THAT needs attention!
how do brake cutoffs work? neither of my ebikes have a cutoff like that; i assume there’s a switch in the brake levers and wiring to the controller? or is it at the caliper?
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
how do brake cutoffs work? neither of my ebikes have a cutoff like that; i assume there’s a switch in the brake levers and wiring to the controller? or is it at the caliper?
Yup, if you have wires leading to your brake levers/controls, you SHOULD have cutoff switches to shut down power to the motor when either is pulled. Pretty safe bet any production bike built within the last several years is equipped with them. Anything is possible of course, but I've never seen or heard of one that didn't.
 

mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
…/Pretty safe bet any production bike built within the last several years is equipped with them. Anything is possible of course, but I've never seen or heard of one that didn't.

i don’t believe any of the specialized mid-drive bikes have these cutoffs. i know my creo doesn’t, nor any vado sl, and have never seen electrical wiring to the brake levers on any of the other types. my vanmoof definitely doesn’t either.

maybe it’s only common on bikes with throttles or with >750w motors?
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
i don’t believe any of the specialized mid-drive bikes have these cutoffs. i know my creo doesn’t, nor any vado sl, and have never seen electrical wiring to the brake levers on any of the other types. my vanmoof definitely doesn’t either.

maybe it’s only common on bikes with throttles or with >750w motors?
In fact, Vado 6.0 (and any Euro S-Pedelec) uses brake levers with the signal to the STOP indicator. No cut-off though. Why should you need the motor cut-off in brake levers for a non-throttle mid-drive motor? Just stop pedalling.
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
In fact, Vado 6.0 (and any Euro S-Pedelec) uses brake levers with the signal to the STOP indicator. No cut-off though. Why should you need the motor cut-off in brake levers for a non-throttle mid-drive motor? Just stop pedalling.
And if something screws up and that doesn't work (eg. shorted wires for instance)? Would leave you in kind of a predicament wouldn't it?

Learned something new though. I find that safety oversight kind of surprising, but it is what it is!

Moving off topic a bit, my curiosity is making me wonder.
How do you climb on to a bike like that, without putting enough pressure on a pedal to power it up? Or does the bike have to roll far enough to trigger the PAS sensor for the motor to get power? If the PAS sensor does need to be triggered for power, wouldn't that make getting the bike moving from a stop difficult (no help from the motor for those first few inches)?

I ask because my Ultra powered bike (w/torque sensing AND throttle) scared the beejesus out of me a couple of times - until I finally learned to have a hand on a brake lever while climbing on/off. -Al
 

mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
In fact, Vado 6.0 (and any Euro S-Pedelec) uses brake levers with the signal to the STOP indicator. No cut-off though. Why should you need the motor cut-off in brake levers for a non-throttle mid-drive motor? Just stop pedalling.
right - that’s why i’m asking if it’s for throttle bikes only. even with PAS front/rear hub drive you would presumably stop pedaling when braking 😂
 

mschwett

Well-Known Member
Region
USA

How do you climb on to a bike like that, without putting enough pressure on a pedal to power it up? Or does the bike have to roll far enough to trigger the PAS sensor for the motor to get power? If the PAS sensor does need to be triggered for power, wouldn't that make getting the bike moving from a stop difficult (no help from the motor for those first few inches)?

I ask because my Ultra powered bike (w/torque sensing AND throttle) scared the beejesus out of me a couple of times - until I finally learned to have a hand on a brake lever while climbing on/off. -Al

you just get on and start pedaling. no bike is / should be so heavy that you need the motor to get it moving a tiny bit from a stop. the only time i can think of this being an issue is when stopped in the wrong gear pointed up a steep hill!
 

AHicks

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Snow Bird - Summer S.E. Michigan, Winter Gulf Coast North Central Fl.
And if such an e-bike runs on PAS (no throttle), there is no danger.
So you guys are telling me that if you put pressure on a pedal when stopped, the bike will accelerate under power (amount likely determined by PAS level)?