SuperDelite 2020 Rohloff HS Issues & Support

SteveBorough

Active Member
Greetings, I recently encountered a few issues after receiving a 550 error during a light drizzle. Firstly, I know no ebike is "waterproof" but I presume this tank of a bike can handle a light drizzle. During the incident the lights, motor and transmission were not responding to input but the screen worked. I had to walk the bike home a few miles in light rain. Once home the error continued whenever I turned on the bike for a few hours, then it went away. I hadn't ridden the bike in the rain again but did do some off-roading and splashed through a large puddle and the error returned. It resolved itself in a few minutes but once home I needed to clean the mud off the bike. Using some Mud-Off and a bucket of water and brush, I washed the bike (no pressure washer and kept the bike right-side-up) and started getting the 550 Error again. I scheduled an appointment at the bike shop I purchased the bike from and upon pickup of the bike, just received a printout of a few diagnostic errors, none of which were the 550 error and no explanation or further analysis, just that they reached out to R&M for an explanation. This was more than 2 weeks ago!

This brings me to my biggest concern with the bike, my local bike shop is as clueless as I am when it comes to troubleshooting this bike. Spending $12K USD, one expects a higher than average service level but for as long as I've owned it, any issue I've faced has been met with a best-guess approach to servicing and rarely solving my bike's issues. Young kids that may be decent regular bike "mechanics" but barely understand the complexity of my R&M, from stripping bolts, to not being able to fix my turn lock problem, to not understanding the odd ride metrics the app/kiox was reporting, to replacing a part that was being worn away by the chainring (new part is still being worn away), nothing has been straight forward with owning this vehicle. I say vehicle and not bicycle as to impart that at almost 30 mph, an extra concern, knowledge and care needs to be exercised to ensure rider safety. I'm not sure R&M thought this through in their business model OR my LBS is just that inexperienced.

Lastly, on recent rides, I noticed the bike seems to provide less and less assistance past 24/25 mph and it has become almost impossible to reach 28 on anything but slightly downhill paved roads. I borrowed a friends Garmin GPS device and mounted my phone to the handlebars to compare speed readings to the kiox display. To further complicate things, my kiox display is approximately 2.5 mph faster than both my phone and the garmin device, showing 28mph and cutting off assist while the other devices display speeds of 25-26mph. I've messed with wheel circumference settings and tried riding with a single battery to lessen weight but it still seems much slower than it used to be. Moreover, got passed by someone on a Gazelle T10 the other day, while trying my hardest to get to and maintain top speed, something is wrong.

Normally, with all the issues I'm facing, I'd be optimistic that with proper analysis and troubleshooting a solution could be discovered BUT given my experiences with my local bike shop, I doubt this will be easily remedied. We've all heard the terms "SUV, Range Rover, Mercedes Benz, even Rolls Royce" when describing the SuperDelite, just wish the accompanying support/expertise lived up to that same heritage.

I have a few other complaints like the front wheel being way to easy to turn out of alignment with the handlebars but feel like a maniac even bringing that up to my bike shop given our history. I beseech this community and fellow 2020/21 SuperDelite owners to help me troubleshoot these issues if possible and look forward to interacting.
 

JVBulman

Active Member
Region
USA
Is the LBS in question an R&M dealer or a Bosch Certified shop?
 
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SteveBorough

Active Member
I’m also having a problem with that same shop and an error 595. Crickets. I have diagnosed the problem myself and will be fixing it myself, thus voiding, in my case, my E-14 warranty. Very disappointed.

The whole contacting Riese&Mueller (or Rohloff) thing is a non-starter. I’m going to have a lot more to say after my attempted repair.
That's the point of this thread, no amount of my complaining can make my LBS competent all of a sudden. They're either set up for failure from the start by R&M or just truly bad at their jobs. All I can do is self diagnose problems (or reach out here) as much as I can without having real diagnostic equipment and contact my LBS for parts when necessary. Until then, I'd advise anyone looking into R&M bikes to study up on your mechanical engineering and bike repair and pray your LBS has the attention to detail and expertise to complement your purchase of the most expensive e-bike on the market.
 

dblhelix

Well-Known Member
That's the point of this thread, no amount of my complaining can make my LBS competent all of a sudden. They're either set up for failure from the start by R&M or just truly bad at their jobs. All I can do is self diagnose problems (or reach out here) as much as I can without having real diagnostic equipment and contact my LBS for parts when necessary. Until then, I'd advise anyone looking into R&M bikes to study up on your mechanical engineering and bike repair and pray your LBS has the attention to detail and expertise to complement your purchase of the most expensive e-bike on the market.
The ppl who post here tend to be high mileage riders, so naturally we have more issues. As high mileage riders, we are probably anxious to see problems resolved. I have pushed for getting more technical documentation from R&M for a very long time. R&M has posted the user manuals we get, but I’m thinking more about documents that address specific issues like 1) supported trailers (updated) 2) adjustments for internal battery compartment (my battery gets reseated only with great difficulty/pushing) 3) internal cable routing and so on.
 
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SteveBorough

Active Member
Here's a perfect example, see image attached, circled is where the chainring is currently wearing away at the tensioner flange. This was originally replaced months ago shortly after purchasing the bike, with no explanation of what was wrong and why this happened. As you can see, the new part is also rubbing against the chainring and wearing away. This is just one of the many things driving my meticulous butt crazy. I admit I'm a stickler but this is unreasonable for the price I paid and more importantly potentially unsafe for a 30mph, 70 pound behemoth. In the pic you can also see the shape of my Gates belt. While riding very slow (think Sunday stroll) maybe 2 months after purchase, the belt partially came off the back sprocket and went around a few times in this state and the sprocket chewed up the edges. My bike store simply said "we moved the wheel back to increase tension" and that's it! No explanation of how this could have happened, why the other mechanisms (belt center-slot and small "slack bearing assembly" by the rear sprocket) didn't work to keep the belt on or insisting that the belt be replaced. Is this another safety hazard waiting to happen, I don't know, and I hate that feeling having spent so much for "the best"

Inkedgear_LI.jpg
 

dblhelix

Well-Known Member
Here's a perfect example, see image attached, circled is where the chainring is currently wearing away at the tensioner flange. This was originally replaced months ago shortly after purchasing the bike, with no explanation of what was wrong and why this happened. As you can see, the new part is also rubbing against the chainring and wearing away. This is just one of the many things driving my meticulous butt crazy. I admit I'm a stickler but this is unreasonable for the price I paid and more importantly potentially unsafe for a 30mph, 70 pound behemoth. In the pic you can also see the shape of my Gates belt. While riding very slow (think Sunday stroll) maybe 2 months after purchase, the belt partially came off the back sprocket and went around a few times in this state and the sprocket chewed up the edges. My bike store simply said "we moved the wheel back to increase tension" and that's it! No explanation of how this could have happened, why the other mechanisms (belt center-slot and small "slack bearing assembly" by the rear sprocket) didn't work to keep the belt on or insisting that the belt be replaced. Is this another safety hazard waiting to happen, I don't know, and I hate that feeling having spent so much for "the best"

View attachment 77566
I sometimes read a German site like this one. What I’ve learned is that there are a lot of problems that arise due to assembly errors at the factory. As a result, a lot of the issues are often one-offs due to random human error instead of systematic errors that can be quickly identified and remedied. For this reason, I don’t believe the issues we experience are due to incompetent dealer service techs.

The German riders stamp their feet about downtimes we’d be grateful for. They also seem to get more information about their problems via the dealer-RM loop than we do. It’s not bc R&M treats them any better but because the dealers appear to be more familiar with practices at the factory.

I also see discussion about expectations given that some riders are “car-free.” This is interesting, because that’s the current marketing push here as well. Promoting “car-free” or “car-replacement” when you can’t/won’t service the bike is just dishonest, period.

I would write R&M and explain that the part has already been replaced once, and you are requesting an explanation of why this is happening again, and what the remedy will be. I would keep it short. The German users complain as much as we do about how much these bikes cost and the consensus view is that R&M just doesn’t care. I’d cc: the tech who did the swap the first time; perhaps give him a heads-up that it’s time to get more information and a better solution.

Back in 2014-2015, I was following Specialized closely and wanted a Turbo X. Then the Vado series was announced. But then, a bad period for the company with an app that never got off the ground, talk of cracked frames ... this is how I landed up with R&M. Now Specialized appears to have worked out all the kinks, so things change rather rapidly. Then there’s Trek with a huge dealer network, and companies coming online with reasonably-priced mid-drives. I wouldn’t be surprised if we’re not talking about R&M much in two years.
 

marcparnes

Active Member
Here's a perfect example, see image attached, circled is where the chainring is currently wearing away at the tensioner flange. This was originally replaced months ago shortly after purchasing the bike, with no explanation of what was wrong and why this happened. As you can see, the new part is also rubbing against the chainring and wearing away. This is just one of the many things driving my meticulous butt crazy. I admit I'm a stickler but this is unreasonable for the price I paid and more importantly potentially unsafe for a 30mph, 70 pound behemoth. In the pic you can also see the shape of my Gates belt. While riding very slow (think Sunday stroll) maybe 2 months after purchase, the belt partially came off the back sprocket and went around a few times in this state and the sprocket chewed up the edges. My bike store simply said "we moved the wheel back to increase tension" and that's it! No explanation of how this could have happened, why the other mechanisms (belt center-slot and small "slack bearing assembly" by the rear sprocket) didn't work to keep the belt on or insisting that the belt be replaced. Is this another safety hazard waiting to happen, I don't know, and I hate that feeling having spent so much for "the best"

View attachment 77566
I was just comparing my bike to yours re: the sprocket hitting the tensioner. Mine has quite a bit of clearance between them, about 2-3 mm just eyeballing it. I wonder if your losing the belt and this problem are related ie: an alignment issue. Assuming the tensioner was manufactured to spec, there isn't much in the mounting configuration that would place it in danger of hitting the sprocket so that leads me to wonder if the sprocket/motor assembly is mounted incorrectly or heaven forbid, there is a problem in the mount built into the frame. This needs to get fixed! If you're dealing with Propel then maybe give a call to his ace tech, Kyle in Long Beach ext. 999. He really knows his stuff and maybe can give a heads-up to the Brooklyn guys.

Marc
 

SteveBorough

Active Member
I was just comparing my bike to yours re: the sprocket hitting the tensioner. Mine has quite a bit of clearance between them, about 2-3 mm just eyeballing it. I wonder if your losing the belt and this problem are related ie: an alignment issue. Assuming the tensioner was manufactured to spec, there isn't much in the mounting configuration that would place it in danger of hitting the sprocket so that leads me to wonder if the sprocket/motor assembly is mounted incorrectly or heaven forbid, there is a problem in the mount built into the frame. This needs to get fixed! If you're dealing with Propel then maybe give a call to his ace tech, Kyle in Long Beach ext. 999. He really knows his stuff and maybe can give a heads-up to the Brooklyn guys.

Marc
I was thinking the same thing as far as overall alignment, the back wheel has done some weird things over the months, just the other day I noticed the disc brake side "guide square" was almost out of its "well" (see picture of proper alignment), I had to undo the axel and reseat, not sure how this happens while riding on pavement mostly. Overall while braking hard I feel the bike torque/twist like wringing out a rag, it wants to go down. I've explained this numerous times to the bike shop and they look at me like I'm crazy.
 

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JVBulman

Active Member
Region
USA
Both the shifting torque of the Rohloff and braking force can shift the rear wheel in the dropouts if the QR isn't secure. The OEM skewer is a bit of a head-scratcher for me as it lacks any sort of knurling on the NDS where it's needed most. If it happens again, consider replacing it with a Shimano MTB QR.
 

JVBulman

Active Member
Region
USA
I was just comparing my bike to yours re: the sprocket hitting the tensioner. Mine has quite a bit of clearance between them, about 2-3 mm just eyeballing it. I wonder if your losing the belt and this problem are related ie: an alignment issue. Assuming the tensioner was manufactured to spec, there isn't much in the mounting configuration that would place it in danger of hitting the sprocket so that leads me to wonder if the sprocket/motor assembly is mounted incorrectly or heaven forbid, there is a problem in the mount built into the frame. This needs to get fixed! If you're dealing with Propel then maybe give a call to his ace tech, Kyle in Long Beach ext. 999. He really knows his stuff and maybe can give a heads-up to the Brooklyn guys.

Marc
Had this thought too, all the Delites/Superdelites on our floor have plenty of clearance. Makes me wonder if the bike has the right Rohloff-corrected chainring spider.
 

SteveBorough

Active Member
Both the shifting torque of the Rohloff and braking force can shift the rear wheel in the dropouts if the QR isn't secure. The OEM skewer is a bit of a head-scratcher for me as it lacks any sort of knurling on the NDS where it's needed most. If it happens again, consider replacing it with a Shimano MTB QR.
my QR was pretty tight, and has some, albeit minimal friction/knurling on the lever side, none on the nut
 

SteveBorough

Active Member
Had this thought too, all the Delites/Superdelites on our floor have plenty of clearance. Makes me wonder if the bike has the right Rohloff-corrected chainring spider.
how do I rectify this? My LBS has already swapped the tensioner based on R&M's instructions, @JVBulman what indicates i have the correct spider?
 

marcparnes

Active Member
how do I rectify this? My LBS has already swapped the tensioner based on R&M's instructions, @JVBulman what indicates i have the correct spider?
Here is a picture of my spider. Other than Rev it looks to be the same. I don't know what that B is that is on yours. Mine doesn't have it. Just curious if you checked the motor mounting bolts. Maybe the motor has shifted? Don't even know if that's possible.

Marc
 

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JVBulman

Active Member
Region
USA
my QR was pretty tight, and has some, albeit minimal friction/knurling on the lever side, none on the nut
Yeah, the nut side is where you want it in this case. I've only had issues with that QR on one bike (a Charger3 Rohloff) but it made me leery of it since.
 

JVBulman

Active Member
Region
USA
Here is a picture of my spider. Other than Rev it looks to be the same. Just curious if you checked the motor mounting bolts. Maybe the motor has shifted? Don't even know if that's possible.

Marc
That's a picture of your chainring; the spider is the 5-arm piece the chainring is bolted to and it mounts to the splines on the drive unit spindle that the crank arms are mounted to.

The drive unit fits very snuggly in the frame, it's not really possible for it to shift laterally in that way.