SuperDelite 2020 Rohloff HS Issues & Support

webcurl

Well-Known Member
I think the misshapen chainring has caused my Rohloff to wear in a weird way as it still clanks and misses shifts more than I think it should but overall
You are lowering your pedal power when changing gears?
Only a video can describe what you are talking about i think.
 

SteveBorough

Active Member
Region
USA
You are lowering your pedal power when changing gears?
Only a video can describe what you are talking about i think.
almost completely stopping pedalling and it occasionally misses gears, ie when i start applying force again its super hard to pedal until it finally snaps, with a loud clank, into the gear.
 

dblhelix

Well-Known Member
almost completely stopping pedalling and it occasionally misses gears, ie when i start applying force again its super hard to pedal until it finally snaps, with a loud clank, into the gear.
 

webcurl

Well-Known Member
almost completely stopping pedalling and it occasionally misses gears, ie when i start applying force again its super hard to pedal until it finally snaps, with a loud clank, into the gear.
Towards the bottom..
"A small amount of rider input is still required to ensure load-free and comfortable shifts are completed within 0.2 seconds:"
 

webcurl

Well-Known Member
Here begins a new problem with the E14 where users who have not experienced a manual shift Rohloff before never get to develop the practice of shifting without pressure, instead relying on the E14 to perform the change completely.
Which is why i have suggested that there should be parameters the end-user can change in regards to E14,
eg.
Someone with no experience: Cut 90% of motor power for 300ms (or whatever is required)
Someone with previous experience: Cut motor 30% of motor power for 150ms.
Someone with previous experience & allow fast shifting: Cut motor 0% for 0ms.

2 parameters within the end-user Bosch settings:
E14 percentage of motor cut-out (0-100%, 5% steps).
E14 time to allow shift (0-XXXX, 50ms steps)
(ms - milli second)

Or if there is a power curve used to cut motor power then pick a few key points of that curve to allow the end user to configure.

And for Bosch to go a step further: Have 2 to 5 profiles of these settings a user can switch between reasonably easy so that the ebike can be shared amongst friends/family without worrying about stressing the auto shifting system.
eg. Maybe i'd call them "Rohloff newbie", "Rohloff experienced", "Rohloff pro" :)

And of course in-conjunction with END-USER configurable battery reserve for E14.
 
Last edited:

SteveBorough

Active Member
Region
USA
Towards the bottom..
"A small amount of rider input is still required to ensure load-free and comfortable shifts are completed within 0.2 seconds:"
My understanding is that after a shift, (after you press the button and after you hear the servo) any pressure applied to the pedals commits the shift. During missed shifts, the pressure required to "commit" the shift is significant and finally commits with a loud clank and slippage. At "button press" and before the servo completes, I consistently reduce pedal pressure to almost nothing.
 

Alaskan

Well-Known Member
Here begins a new problem with the E14 where users who have not experienced a manual shift Rohloff before never get to develop the practice of shifting without pressure, instead relying on the E14 to perform the change completely.
Which is why i have suggested that there should be parameters the end-user can change in regards to E14,
eg.
Someone with no experience: Cut 90% of motor power for 300ms (or whatever is required)
Someone with previous experience: Cut motor 30% of motor power for 150ms.
Someone with previous experience & allow fast shifting: Cut motor 0% for 0ms.

2 parameters within the end-user Bosch settings:
E14 percentage of motor cut-out (0-100%, 5% steps).
E14 time to allow shift (0-XXXX, 50ms steps)
(ms - milli second)

Or if there is a power curve used to cut motor power then pick a few key points of that curve to allow the end user to configure.

And for Bosch to go a step further: Have 2 to 5 profiles of these settings a user can switch between reasonably easy so that the ebike can be shared amongst friends/family without worrying about stressing the auto shifting system.
eg. Maybe i'd call them "Rohloff newbie", "Rohloff experienced", "Rohloff pro" :)

And of course in-conjunction with END-USER configurable battery reserve for E14.
Smooth and quick shifting of a Rohloff does not need to be nearly so complicated with too many options. I have owned and ridden both Rohloff manual and E-14 equipped bikes.

On the manual twist shift, it is necessary to do a momentary pause with your pedaling to take torque (pressure) of the cranks and let the gears move smoothly up or down. The time needed is a mere 160 milliseconds, less than 1/4 second.

The best way to accomplish this is to time your shift when your feet are at 12 & 6 o'clock on the cranks, the point at which you are naturally applying the least amount of torque to the cranks already. You do not need to stop pedalling when you push the shift button, just slow down slightly before your foot rises to top dead center with your pedal and then resume normal speed and pressure on the pedal as soon as your foot starts moving forward and down. It takes a bit of practice but after a few rides it starts becoming muscle memory and you don't even have to think about it.

The E-14 system by Rohloff makes for even smoother shifts in that it does the same thing, stops the motor from adding pressure on the chain for 160 milliseconds when you push the shift button. When I first got my E14, I thought that meant I could just keep pedalling full force. That made for rough and noisy shifting. I resumed shifting as I had learned on my manual twist shift and all shifts became almost silent, and butter smooth.

If the rider learns to learn this one simple skill, no complications in the shifting at the electronic level would be needed.
 

Rider777

New Member
Region
USA
City
Vegas
I have more than 20K miles riding ebikes.
Of which about 6K of that is with R&M Nevo GT and presently R&M Delite. Both touring models....you now know where I’m going here:
I test rode the Rohloff version of both these bikes and found: 1.) the additional unsprung weight definitely caused a “clunkier/more uncomfortable” ride compared to the tried and true sprocket/chain touring model, 2.) the complexity of removing and reinstalling the rear wheel for a flat repair is unacceptable, 3.) the added cost of approximately $1800 vs the touring model overwhelmingly sold me on the good ole chain and sprocket, 4.) Chain and sprocket setups can be repaired by any LBS and/or a general mechanic like myself, 5.) You can vary sprocket sizes for a more customized power delivery, 6.) Wear and tear on the chain and sprocket is for me about 3 to 1. I.E: 3 chains at 2500 miles each to one chainring and cassette . Cheap especially keeping in mind that $1800 up charge mentioned earlier.
Love my ebikes :)
 
Last edited:

Alaskan

Well-Known Member
almost completely stopping pedalling and it occasionally misses gears, ie when i start applying force again its super hard to pedal until it finally snaps, with a loud clank, into the gear.
When was the last time you did an auto-calibration on your Rohloff?
 

SteveBorough

Active Member
Region
USA
When was the last time you did an auto-calibration on your Rohloff?
The holding shift + & - & power thing? Immediately after the first clanky miss-shift, seems to behaving better after loosening the rear axel skewer a smidge. Will update in a few days.

Update: loosening the quick release axel a tiny bit is the fix, wondering if I should get a Rohloff oil change given the past 10 months and sever bike issues I've faced.
 
Last edited:

Alaskan

Well-Known Member
The holding shift + & - & power thing? Immediately after the first clanky miss-shift, seems to behaving better after loosening the rear axel skewer a smidge. Will update in a few days.
That was going to be my next question. Rohloff hubs are famous for griping & chattering at you if you have overtightened the axle skewer.
 
Last edited:

webcurl

Well-Known Member
The E-14 system by Rohloff makes for even smoother shifts in that it does the same thing, stops the motor from adding pressure on the chain for 160 milliseconds when you push the shift button. When I first got my E14, I thought that meant I could just keep pedalling full force. That made for rough and noisy shifting. I resumed shifting as I had learned on my manual twist shift and all shifts became almost silent, and butter smooth.
If it was set at let's say 200 - 250ms would it be enough time to perform a complete shift?
Let's say that 200ms is enough time to cut the engine to perform a complete shift then this could be applied to the "novice" profile: people new to Rohloff, lending the bike to a person who would never get the Rohloff ease off power thing, potentially smoother AND foolproof.
Of course sometimes whilst still pedalling hard & trying to shift simultaneously you may have to learn the ease off technique a bit still.
-> Better still with Bosch's superior Torque sensor it could sense that you're applying to much force and not perform the shift, displaying a brief message instead "Ease off power a little before shifting".
Have profile "experienced" set at 160ms and "pro" set at 0ms, eg. The "pro" profile would allow it to be as quick as an experienced Rohloff user with a manual shift.
And i'll change my suggestion of the user configurable time to cut motor to 1ms steps.

Also, not just for Rohloff, but perhaps applicable to Kindernay, Alfine Di2 & others.
These settings can be buried deep within the user interface, with profiles at the forefront of that section.
 
Last edited:

JVBulman

Active Member
Region
USA
As luck would have it, we have a Superdelite GT Rohloff HS in for it's 300mi service that's showing the exact same issue @SteveBorough was suffering from.

IMG_2281.jpg

Swapping parts between this bike and our demo has me scratching my head - the customer's chainring and guide pulley carrier contact when installed on their bike, but not when installed on our demo bike. Likewise, the demo bikes carrier and chainring contact when installed on the customer's bike. We've taken all manner of measurements and the only thing we've found is that on the demo bike, there's a +1.5-2mm difference between the end of the drive unit crank arm spindle and the end of post the carrier mounts to, which amounts to about how much clearance the carrier and chainring have when installed on the demo bike.

@SteveBorough, would you mind conversing with me over direct message? With your permission, I'd like to get the contact info for your shop and ask them the details of how they went about diagnosing and fixing the issue on your bike while I wait for the time difference in Germany.
 

SteveBorough

Active Member
Region
USA
@SteveBorough, would you mind conversing with me over direct message? With your permission, I'd like to get the contact info for your shop and ask them the details of how they went about diagnosing and fixing the issue on your bike while I wait for the time difference in Germany.
Sure thing, will dm you.