Talk About The Kindernay Gear System

webcurl

Active Member
If a major problem happens with the Hydraulic shifting let's say in the middle of nowhere on a tour is it relatively easy to manually shift the gear and have it stick like the Rohloff can (take off gear mech). Given you'll have to take the wheel off, etc.
 

pushkar

Well-Known Member
If a major problem happens with the Hydraulic shifting let's say in the middle of nowhere on a tour is it relatively easy to manually shift the gear and have it stick like the Rohloff can (take off gear mech). Given you'll have to take the wheel off, etc.

like the rohloff, it will stick to the gear you are in. You can also take it off quickly and Manually shift to a desired gear and re-mount it and keep riding.
 

byunbee

Well-Known Member
Since I have some reliability concerns about the electric Rhohloff kit I'm starting to really warm up to the Kindernay unit. With the Rhohloff, if it needed repairs, I'd have to send off the entire wheel and Rhohloff hub for repairs and that, from Canada, will REALLY expensive, but with the Kindernay, I'd only have to send off the hub.
I'm a "the glass if half full" kinda guy, meaning that if there is going to be problems it will happen to me. If Pushkar finally gives a favourable review for the Kindernay unit that's the way I'll probably go with both the bikes I ordered.
Don’t you mean glass half empty? ;)
 

AdilDesai

Active Member
Is the Kindernay hub designed for e-bikes? I've been reading on the R&M forum about Rohloff issues. My conclusion is that electric shifting and using the hub on e-bikes is straining the hub for some users. Since the Kindernay design is much more recent than Rohloff's, I'm wondering if it's beefed up for e-bikes?
 

Ebiker33

Active Member
Interesting that you can add it to the Travalanche on your website and you pulled the the Rohloff option.
 

pushkar

Well-Known Member
Interesting that you can add it to the Travalanche on your website and you pulled the the Rohloff option.
There are multiple reasons - couple of key ones

1. Travalance is Thru axle. Rohloff Thru Axle certification process is fairly involved. Further with OEM2 axle plate, and the default rotor mounts, we cannot go over 180mm rotors for the brakes.

2. In my unscientific offroad tests, gear shifting is a problem when on an incline. You can always downshift Kindernay to a lower / easier grease- even under some pressure. However for rohloff you have to ease off completely .. so there will be scenarios where you have to be at a dead stop on an incline, to shift gears!

edit: changed “upshift “ to “downshift.”
 
Last edited:

byunbee

Well-Known Member
I took the liberty of recategorizing this to reflect how I understand the difference.

Kindernay is different.

Pros/Improvements:
  1. I like the hydraulic shifting - very crisp. There are no mid-shift type issues so far - e.g. with typical IGH the gear may engage half way (if you know what i mean). With Kindernay if you click, it always engages at 100%.
  2. Shifting 3 gears at a time is awesome. With other hubs, I have to 'look' briefly to ensure I am not geared too high or too low when I shift. With Kindernay, you are always ± 3 and you are never too far away from your desired gear. This is growing on me now.
    • Both changes are very subtle and talking in computer terms, it frees up ~5-10% of my CPU while riding. (I am sure there is a better analogy here). As I mentioned earlier, this affects placement of the throttle, but that is an ok compromise for me personally.
  3. Removing the wheel is extremely easy, no need to have a flathead to disconnect the cables / reconnect them. No need to worry about checking if i still have all 14 gears after putting back the cables. No need to re-tension, no need to calibrate / recalibrate.
  4. Downside 2 - Swapping shells isnt as easy as it sounds. That part of the value is minimal, and it is not practical to do it every day.Takes anywhere between 15-30 minutes to swap. I can see myself doing this if I am switching bikes or switching wheelsets on the same bike (e.g. going from 3 inch tires to 2.2inch).
    • This is not a downside. it may be more time consuming than what was originally thought, but still better than sending out the whole wheel for service.
    • You can also reuse Kindernay hub on a different bike.
Same as Rohloff:
  1. Downside - Like the Rohloff, you need a special socket to tighten the rear cog. Thankfully it is a standard 38mm socket - and you can find it at a local hardware store.
Cons:
  1. Downside 3 - There are limited rims with 28H drill pattern. We are working with Velocity to custom drill those.
  2. Downside 4 - there is no 170mm or 177mm dropout version if you have a mid-fat dropout. Its not a hard part to make but 170mm isn't standard right now.
  3. (New) Kindernay doesn't have history of durability and reliability over decades and millions of miles of riding that Rohloff has.
Comparing it to the Rohloff, all other things are very very similar - good efficiency, and overall riding experience is very comparable. It is the minor quibbles with the maintenance where Kindernay is better. It is a tad more expensive - so there is a trade off between value versus cost.

If you have a rohloff already, there is marginal gain. I wouldn't be able to make a case to switch. If you are in the market for a new bike, I think its worth going the Kindernay route (long term).

Edit- cleaned up some formatting / verbiage.
 

Ebiker33

Active Member
Oh No.......
From their website
  • The torque limit is 150Nm. Torque levels above this limit will void the warranty.o_O
 

pushkar

Well-Known Member
Oh No.......
From their website
  • The torque limit is 150Nm. Torque levels above this limit will void the warranty.o_O
1. This depends on gearing - if riding in the right gear, this will not be a problem (like the rohloff).
2. As is the case with most hubs, this is the max torque rating on the weakest gear.


If you are geared correctly, and are not sending 250Nm of torque via a throttle, you will be fine. We restrict throttle on our bikes to 60-70Nm (~500-600W power equivalent).

But Rohloff is recommended for 100Nm although it can handle much more.
👍
 

TomD

Well-Known Member
There are multiple reasons - couple of key ones

1. Travalance is Thru axle. Rohloff Thru Axle certification process is fairly involved. Further with OEM2 axle plate, and the default rotor mounts, we cannot go over 180mm rotors for the brakes.

2. In my unscientific offroad tests, gear shifting is a problem when on an incline. You can always upshift Kindernay - even under some pressure. However for rohloff you have to ease off completely .. so there will be scenarios where you have to be at a dead stop on an incline, to shift gears!
Can you clarify what upshift means? To a lower gear or higher gear?