The Experience of a Bicycle

Cowlitz

Well-Known Member
I'm feeling like a dinosaur. I like an ebike that feels like a bicycle. It is responsive, fairly lightweight, and I must pedal. The motor is there because we have hills and I don't like get off my bike to push. It is comfortable to ride for miles and miles. I'm not interested in speed, I'm interested in getting somewhere, but getting some exercise also. I've found the right ebike for me.

This forum seems to be going the other way. Most posts seem to be about faux motorcycles and how fast can it go. I find myself coming to it less and less. There are even posts about scaring pedestrians. This is all fodder for the ebikes are too scary group. All this makes me think that ebikes are going to be very heavily regulated soon. I think I'll be safe with my nerdy Gazelle. You?
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Mazovia, Poland
Were I you Cowlitz, I would have bought me even more lightweight and less powerful e-bike... Oh, haven't I? :)

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m@Robertson

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
I have been hearing this sort of angst since ebikes became a thing. They have only gotten more popular and the regulatory trend has only gotten more accommodating as millions of registered voters join the ranks of ownership. The sky is not falling.
 
Region
Europe
regulations will come and go as they do with any other form of transportation, but it's not like the cops are going to come knocking on your door out of nowhere to confiscate your things. at the end of the day more people getting interested in alternative forms of transportation is a good thing imo.
 

JedidiahStolzfus

Active Member
Region
USA
City
Lancaster, PA
regulations will come and go as they do with any other form of transportation, but it's not like the cops are going to come knocking on your door out of nowhere to confiscate your things. at the end of the day more people getting interested in alternative forms of transportation is a good thing imo.
Around here, we can't even get police to enforce the existing traffic laws with cars, they surely aren't going to have the time to come after bikes.
 

Mr. Coffee

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
Just think. Please.

If they aren't legal, most stores won't carry them. Bike shops will have one more reason to refuse to work on them. And investors won't fund the business and the business won't have a great argument for huge sales growth if they aren't street legal. And if you do get in an accident or (god forbid) hurt someone with a non-legal e-bike then you are in a horrid world of hurt.
 

Cowlitz

Well-Known Member
Were I you Cowlitz, I would have bought me even more lightweight and less powerful e-bike... Oh, haven't I? :)

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My Gazelle is "just right", for me. I had to ride a 8 or 9 mile climb with it in low gear and turbo, stopping only on flatter parts or where there was a rare road entering from the side. Have heard of other people complaining about the lack of power for hills while using the same model. In a more perfect world, with wider road shoulders, I'd like to try touring with my Gazelle.
 

Cowlitz

Well-Known Member
Just think. Please.

If they aren't legal, most stores won't carry them. Bike shops will have one more reason to refuse to work on them. And investors won't fund the business and the business won't have a great argument for huge sales growth if they aren't street legal. And if you do get in an accident or (god forbid) hurt someone with a non-legal e-bike then you are in a horrid world of hurt.
From reading on here, and reading articles about....New York the city and elsewhere, that isn't working out right now. I regularly get facebook ads showing the motorcycly "bikes" that I should want to buy. All look cumbersome.
 
Region
Europe
Just think. Please.

If they aren't legal, most stores won't carry them. Bike shops will have one more reason to refuse to work on them. And investors won't fund the business and the business won't have a great argument for huge sales growth if they aren't street legal. And if you do get in an accident or (god forbid) hurt someone with a non-legal e-bike then you are in a horrid world of hurt.
as @JedidiahStolzfus mentioned, cars are heavily regulated, and in many areas it's rarely enforced. there's plenty of people driving tuned mitsubishis and chipped diesel trucks that are technically not street legal but that hasn't stopped any auto parts store from carrying parts for them. the idea that an entire mode of transportation is going to be regulated into oblivion is silly. we should urge people to be responsible yes but fear mongering for or against e bikes is a futile endeavor, they are here to stay.

My Gazelle is "just right", for me. I had to ride a 8 or 9 mile climb with it in low gear and turbo, stopping only on flatter parts or where there was a rare road entering from the side. Have heard of other people complaining about the lack of power for hills while using the same model. In a more perfect world, with wider road shoulders, I'd like to try touring with my Gazelle.
the gazelles are such clean bikes. quietly pushing just enough power through to make you feel like a world class cyclist instead of someone who eats too many sweets like me lol. it's a bummer they are so expensive i too would love touring on one.
 

m@Robertson

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
If they aren't legal, most stores won't carry them. Bike shops will have one more reason to refuse to work on them. And investors won't fund the business and the business won't have a great argument for huge sales growth if they aren't street legal.
All of these things are already true and none of them have happened yet, nor is there any sign they will happen. If we look at the example of New York City, which tried to enforce a ban on the things, the public essentially shouted them down and the government relented. The feds opened up federal land to ebikes. Including Class 3's which I find amazing. But the point is the legislative trend is to allow more and more ebikes. Not the other way around.
And if you do get in an accident or (god forbid) hurt someone with a non-legal e-bike then you are in a horrid world of hurt.
Again this is not true. At least not in the United States. As I understand it it is true in the EU where fault is automatically assigned to an illegal vehicle. But in the USA we have what is known as 'materiality'. If the modifications are material to the accident, then you are in that world of hurt. Lets say you were traveling at 50 mph on a sidewalk. That speed is almost certain to be found material to whatever accident you cause. But if the modifications - or the nature of the vehicle itself - is not material to the accident, then they are not considered. Not in any way as those factors were irrelevant to the mishap. I got hit by a car on a bike powered by a 3kw Cyclone. But I was going 15 mph in a bike lane, had headlights, was obeying traffic laws and the police very kindly dropped my bike off at my home, behind the gate so it was out of sight, while I spent the next few hours in the emergency room after being hauled off by an ambulance. The insurance company for the driver who hit me paid for the bike (I gave them detailed receipts of the motor and everything else as it was a fresh build), and they paid for everything on it, not just the bike itself. So... battery. Motor. Controller. The works. As it should be.

So sure, people can do bad things. But don't freak out and make this into more than it is (which is an impossible dream, I know).
 
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Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
City
Halifax
E-bikes fill multiple positions within the useful spectrum of electric vehicles.
Providing a bike-like experience is one of them, but to actually make a useful, sustainable impact in the transportation space, we need more categories - especially well-built Cargo E-bikes that can replace cars effectively to carry kids, Costco runs, carry loads, etc., and in all those cases, what really matters in the cargo carrying capability, not so much bike-like feeling. 100 lbs cargo E-bike is way more efficient than a 3500 lbs car.

This is how bicycles are used in Asia and there are more bicycles in Asia than all the rest of the world put together.
A wise man once told me, "Look at the forest, not just a few trees".....
E-bikes can totally transform the lives of millions of people around the world and we should enhance our perception of the industry.

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m@Robertson

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
E-bikes fill multiple benefits within the useful spectrum of electric vehicles.
...
<snip>
...
we should enhance our perception of the industry.
Ab-so-freaking-lutely. I have mentioned more than once here that it seems the vast gulf between slow/torque-sensing vs. fast/cadence-sensing riders is primarily about understanding the ebike as a tool to perform mundane tasks, versus a vehicle for recreation. In cargo bike discussion groups, its the only place I have ever heard other riders (besides me) jump up and say (and this is a quote) "why on God's green Earth would anyone carrying two kids and 4 bags of groceries want torque sensing?" and its a position that is echoed by others in the thread instead of the usual litany of pile-ons repeating how torque sensing is the bee's knees.

Its annoying as hell to find the place where the most ebike hating to be found is the place where ebikers gather. Unfortunately, my-way-or-the-highway and I-know-best-you-suck seems to be an attitude common to cyclists. We fight amongst ourselves and that weakens the entire community, as well as losing sight of the goal of using ebikes to accelerate auto replacement.

Even an electric car has four wheels and takes up a car's space in a traffic jam. Its not just about losing the ICE.
 

SC00CHB00CH

Active Member
Region
USA
Would have loved to have one as a kid although my Yamaha Mini Enduro 60 was pretty awesome in 1971!!
Yeah they're fun ,don't get me wrong , it's just they slip through this loophole here in the States where they 'have bike pedals and can be pedaled" they classify as bikes. So douchbag kids zip with them on bike trails. Do I want one? Yes I do , but I live in the mountains with long stretches of dirt roads and nobody on them.
 

DaveMatthews

Well-Known Member
Everyone who calls these bicycles. Imagine 'zipping' by kids on bike paths and elderly with dogs on bike trails. 🙄View attachment 140157🙄
View attachment 140156🙄🙄
Yesterday on the way home from the store I saw a guy in my hood riding one of these Sur Ron style bikes. He was a good block ahead of me when I saw him go down.
Instead of making my turn I went straight to him as he picked himself up off the road and walked it to the curb.
I stopped and asked him if he was OK or needed any help. He said he was fine except for ripping a hole in his pants.
I didn't give him any crap or anything. He said it was "slippery". No. An extremely small wet area on the road in the shade, but no ice or puddles or anything "slippery". Obviously he made a hard turn with too much "gas".
Silly, and could have been worse.
 

Captain Slow

Well-Known Member
You’re not alone. I’ve always preferred lighter ebikes that feel more like a regular bike. So much so that my main bike now is a Specialized Aethos i.e. no motor. I liked my Creo when I got it because it was more responsive and handled better than previous ebikes I had. But the Aethos is just a dream to ride.

There was some post here about smoking Vados, so you’re right there are a lot of people here who want the high powered bikes and they don’t want to pedal a lot. Some can’t but others just don’t want to.

In Canada where I live ebikes are restricted to 32 km/hr, so just as the high power ebike riders who like to smoke Vados, I enjoy dropping ebikes when I ride above 32 km/hr on flats. I just love dropping those riders.

Going downhill, I love going 75 - 80 km/hr, and not many riding those big ponderous bikes are willing to go that fast.
 

m@Robertson

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Yeah they're fun ,don't get me wrong , it's just they slip through this loophole here in the States where they 'have bike pedals and can be pedaled" they classify as bikes. So douchbag kids zip with them on bike trails. Do I want one? Yes I do , but I live in the mountains with long stretches of dirt roads and nobody on them.
Yeah but nobody is fooled by the existence of pedals on something like that. Certainly not an opposing attorney in a liability case. Area 13's latest video shows cops who could easily make the mistake, though. Still, I don't count those light motorcycles with pedals as ebikes. As far as I have seen day to day, they don't exist. With one only recent exception, I saw a guy on one of those little Sur-Rons recently, on the street. But still I don't agree they pose any risk to the ebike public or ebike regulations. Thats like saying a car driving down the street with a parachute and wheelie bars is a threat to the legality of automobiles. A big threat to the wallet of the guy driving that car (which is not illegal everywhere, actually) but thats it.

The Fresno PD interaction in this vid at about 3 minutes in occurs literally in my neighborhood. Surprising as I've never seen FPD on an ebike in that town, ever.


Whats the risk here? People get a ticket. Not ebikes banned. We already have laws on the books for this.
 
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