The Joys of MS...

Keith Johnston

New Member
Really appreciate the idea and info---and yes, seems a bit byzantine.

I spoke with an engineer Bosch (bike powertrains) in CA yesterday. He said he'd only been there a year, but thought the idea of a throttle for disabled people to get a start was a great idea and he would ask colleagues about it. He said very difficult to hack the existing system, however (not new news...). I told him I saw a thread on an ebike forum where a German Bosch exec said 'oh yes, throttles on ebikes seem to be a uniquely American desire....' There's that Teutonic humility I love! The engineer laughed and was not surprised...

He said the only thing that can be done with the bike as-is would be to get into the lowest/lightest gear when at a stop and activate the 'walk assist' function--which usually provides up to a 2mph assist when walking/moving a bike--because it could add a 4mph boost to get started in a low gear, then ends when pedaling begins. Bike is about 60#, I'm 6'2" and 190#, so while I appreciated his idea and will experiment, I"m managing expectations.

All indicators is sell the bike and get something else. While very sad, I'm a pragmatic man. Toward that end, any thoughts or recommendations on a recumbent ebike (with throttle, class 2 if possible) in the $1000-3000 range? Recumbents seem unsafe to me b/c of their visibility, but i know many people who love them and I might start looking b/c it's more important that I keep moving and I love cycling--the best counter to disability is mobility!
 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
Really appreciate the idea and info---and yes, seems a bit byzantine.
I spoke with an engineer Bosch (bike powertrains) in CA yesterday. He said he'd only been there a year, but thought the idea of a throttle for disabled people to get a start was a great idea and he would ask colleagues about it. He said very difficult to hack the existing system, however (not new news...). I told him I saw a thread on an ebike forum where a German Bosch exec said 'oh yes, throttles on ebikes seem to be a uniquely American desire....' There's that Teutonic humility I love! The engineer laughed and was not surprised...
He said the only thing that can be done with the bike as-is would be to get into the lowest/lightest gear when at a stop and activate the 'walk assist' function--which usually provides up to a 2mph assist when walking/moving a bike--because it could add a 4mph boost to get started in a low gear, then ends when pedaling begins. Bike is about 60#, I'm 6'2" and 190#, so while I appreciated his idea and will experiment, I"m managing expectations.
All indicators is sell the bike and get something else. While very sad, I'm a pragmatic man. Toward that end, any thoughts or recommendations on a recumbent ebike (with throttle, class 2 if possible) in the $1000-3000 range? Recumbents seem unsafe to me b/c of their visibility, but i know many people who love them and I might start looking b/c it's more important that I keep moving and I love cycling--the best counter to disability is mobility!
Take a look at the reviews of the best recumbent bikes and trikes on EBR.


 

byunbee

Well-Known Member
Take a look at the reviews of the best recumbent bikes and trikes on EBR.


Recumbent bike or a trike might better option for you since over time you may continually experience balance issues. If you don't want to consider the recumbent or trike options and want a throttle, you probably want to buy a bike with Bafang Ultra motor. GIven that the standard controller has been reported to be jerky at time with some engagement and cutoff delays, Watt Wagons UC Pro may be a better option since they come with a customer controller that provides similar feel as the big brand motors but with much more power and a throttle. Numerous forum members have already pre-ordered the bike (me included).

If you have specific questions, you can ping @pushkar who is the owner.

 

jaizon

Active Member
Recumbent bike or a trike might better option for you since over time you may continually experience balance issues. If you don't want to consider the recumbent or trike options and want a throttle, you probably want to buy a bike with Bafang Ultra motor. GIven that the standard controller has been reported to be jerky at time with some engagement and cutoff delays, Watt Wagons UC Pro may be a better option since they come with a customer controller that provides similar feel as the big brand motors but with much more power and a throttle. Numerous forum members have already pre-ordered the bike (me included).

If you have specific questions, you can ping @pushkar who is the owner.

Way outside his budget and overkill bigtime. Just sayin'.
 

jaizon

Active Member
Maybe...but trial and error by going through multiple bikes may end up being more expensive in the long run. :rolleyes:
There are many bikes in the price range and they won't be more expensive in the long run. No need to spend 50% over budget to get what he needs. And why recommend a bike with so much power (that isn't needed)?
 

byunbee

Well-Known Member
I recommended the UC Pro because of the controller mainly. I don't believe there are M600 or M620 motors that address the jerkiness and engagement issues other than the Archon X1 controller. For someone in his condition the inherent issues with the stock controller may be dangerous, so worth the investment. Also, the fact that it comes with Gates Carbon Drive that can last up to 10k miles, makes it a safer option. I can't imagine what may happen if the chain broke during his rides.

But you are right. It is substantially over his budget.
 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
Recumbent bike or a trike might better option for you since over time you may continually experience balance issues. If you don't want to consider the recumbent or trike options and want a throttle, you probably want to buy a bike with Bafang Ultra motor. GIven that the standard controller has been reported to be jerky at time with some engagement and cutoff delays, Watt Wagons UC Pro may be a better option since they come with a customer controller that provides similar feel as the big brand motors but with much more power and a throttle. Numerous forum members have already pre-ordered the bike (me included).

If you have specific questions, you can ping @pushkar who is the owner.

Here are the top 2 rated Electric Recumbents and Trikes under $3K according to Court at EBR. ;)

Best Recumbent Electric Trikes of 2020
Explore all of the recumbent electric trikes I’ve reviewed (ordered by date) on the category page here.

Electric Bike Technologies Electric Eco-Tad Trike Review
  • MSRP: $2,338
  • MODEL YEAR: 2019
A tadpole trike with a focus on value as well as stability with efficient tires, recumbent seating position, and adjustments to get you dialed in. Open platform allows you to swap battery sizes, adjust the top speed and amp flow...Read Review
Affordable

Electric Bike Technologies Electric Eco-Delta Trike Review
  • MSRP: $2,108
  • MODEL YEAR: 2019
A value-priced recumbent style electric delta trike with a lot of adjustability, possible configurations, and thoughtful considerations. Comfortable recumbent style seating, adjustable telescoping main tube, adjustable handlebar, and the seat is… Read Review


Best Upright Electric Trikes of 2020
Explore all of the upright tricycle style electric bikes I’ve reviewed (ordered by date) on the category page here.


EVELO Compass Review
  • MSRP: $3,299
  • MODEL YEAR: 2018
A heavy-duty electric trike with five levels of pedal assist, instant-power trigger throttle, adjustable top speed (the default is 16 mph for safety), large 180mm disc brakes, motor inhibitors on both brake levers. Comes with durable plastic fenders on all three wheels, a full-surround chain cover, three integrated... Read Review
Value

Electric Bike Technologies Electric Sun Traditional Tricycle Review
  • MSRP: $1,683
  • MODEL YEAR: 2019
A value-priced sturdy style electric delta trike with a lot of strength (300lb max weight), while remaining simple and using reliable proven systems. Both throttle and cadence based pedal assist available, can go slow to walk with crowds... Read Review
Affordable
 

jaizon

Active Member
Here are the top 2 rated Electric Recumbents and Trikes under $3K according to Court at EBR. ;)

Best Recumbent Electric Trikes of 2020
Explore all of the recumbent electric trikes I’ve reviewed (ordered by date) on the category page here.

Electric Bike Technologies Electric Eco-Tad Trike Review
  • MSRP: $2,338
  • MODEL YEAR: 2019
A tadpole trike with a focus on value as well as stability with efficient tires, recumbent seating position, and adjustments to get you dialed in. Open platform allows you to swap battery sizes, adjust the top speed and amp flow...Read Review
Affordable

Electric Bike Technologies Electric Eco-Delta Trike Review
  • MSRP: $2,108
  • MODEL YEAR: 2019
A value-priced recumbent style electric delta trike with a lot of adjustability, possible configurations, and thoughtful considerations. Comfortable recumbent style seating, adjustable telescoping main tube, adjustable handlebar, and the seat is… Read Review


Best Upright Electric Trikes of 2020
Explore all of the upright tricycle style electric bikes I’ve reviewed (ordered by date) on the category page here.


EVELO Compass Review
  • MSRP: $3,299
  • MODEL YEAR: 2018
A heavy-duty electric trike with five levels of pedal assist, instant-power trigger throttle, adjustable top speed (the default is 16 mph for safety), large 180mm disc brakes, motor inhibitors on both brake levers. Comes with durable plastic fenders on all three wheels, a full-surround chain cover, three integrated... Read Review
Value

Electric Bike Technologies Electric Sun Traditional Tricycle Review
  • MSRP: $1,683
  • MODEL YEAR: 2019
A value-priced sturdy style electric delta trike with a lot of strength (300lb max weight), while remaining simple and using reliable proven systems. Both throttle and cadence based pedal assist available, can go slow to walk with crowds... Read Review
Affordable
anything with one wheel in front is inherently unstable at speed. Not a good choice for someone with MS.

the first one, much more stable does not offer anything approximating a comfortable ride, either for the neck or back, and pedal slipping could also be a huge problem, among others. All these would get a hard pass from me.
 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
anything with one wheel in front is inherently unstable at speed. Not a good choice for someone with MS. the first one, much more stable does not offer anything approximating a comfortable ride, either for the neck or back, and pedal slipping could also be a huge problem, among others. All these would get a hard pass from me.
Not necessarily... let's wait to hear from the OP before passing judgment. ;)
 

Keith Johnston

New Member
anything with one wheel in front is inherently unstable at speed. Not a good choice for someone with MS.

the first one, much more stable does not offer anything approximating a comfortable ride, either for the neck or back, and pedal slipping could also be a huge problem, among others. All these would get a hard pass from me.
Thanks for your input. So the Eco-Tad you believe is stable but uncomfortable? The world of recumbents (3 wheel) is alien to me, so I take all insights seriously. The EBR review of the Eco-Tad seemed positive for the price-point. Any others you might suggest?
Thanks much.
 

Saratoga Dave

Well-Known Member
Hey Keith

Here‘s a pretty nice looking gravel style trike, brand new, that I encountered an hour ago out on a path. Owner was getting ready to go for the first ride on it. The battery is in that bag above the rear wheel... he bought it from that place I mentioned above that sells trikes exclusively.

I expect I’ll see him out there again, I’ll ask his opinion when I do, if I can catch him!

1593626178714.jpeg
 

byunbee

Well-Known Member
Hey Keith

Here‘s a pretty nice looking gravel style trike, brand new, that I encountered an hour ago out on a path. Owner was getting ready to go for the first ride on it. The battery is in that bag above the rear wheel... he bought it from that place I mentioned above that sells trikes exclusively.

I expect I’ll see him out there again, I’ll ask his opinion when I do, if I can catch him!

View attachment 57434
That does look like a very stable bike.
 

jaizon

Active Member
There are many stable recumbents (elec). I suggest you find any dealer with one available to test (will more than likely be an non electric) and ride it just to see how they feel. It IS VERY different. Riding one convinced me not to get any recumbent. YMMV but trust me, it's not the same thing. You may think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. And if you do, that's great! But ask yourself this...how well will you be able to hold your feet up on those pedals after 30 minutes of riding. Look at the geometry. Think a year to two down the road. There are much better options out there for you. ;)
 

jaizon

Active Member
Hey Keith

Here‘s a pretty nice looking gravel style trike, brand new, that I encountered an hour ago out on a path. Owner was getting ready to go for the first ride on it. The battery is in that bag above the rear wheel... he bought it from that place I mentioned above that sells trikes exclusively.

I expect I’ll see him out there again, I’ll ask his opinion when I do, if I can catch him!

View attachment 57434
How did he get it there??? Not in that car, or any car and NOT by himself. Do you have any idea how heavy that trike is? Plus...no shocks that I can see, anywhere. And my other questions still apply. Still, a nice looking e-trike.
 

Saratoga Dave

Well-Known Member
How’d he get it there? You know, that’s a good question. When I rolled up it was right where you see it in the picture. However, there was no one else around with him, and he seemed to be operating completely out of the van. I saw him take the battery out of it to put it on the bike.

If he moved that plastic tub forward someplace, I don’t know why it couldn’t fit in there, but that doesn’t address the weight issue. I travel that path all the time, maybe I’ll find out at some point.

Out of pure random curiosity, what’s your opinion on one or two wheels in the front on these things?
 

jaizon

Active Member
How’d he get it there? You know, that’s a good question. When I rolled up it was right where you see it in the picture. However, there was no one else around with him, and he seemed to be operating completely out of the van. I saw him take the battery out of it to put it on the bike.

If he moved that plastic tub forward someplace, I don’t know why it couldn’t fit in there, but that doesn’t address the weight issue. I travel that path all the time, maybe I’ll find out at some point.

Out of pure random curiosity, what’s your opinion on one or two wheels in the front on these things?
Two wheels in front is far better! No doubt about it.
 

Keith Johnston

New Member
Agree that it's a good looking trike. It resembles the Electric Bicycle Tech. tadpole trike reviewed on this site somewhere. Yes, I'm curious what they feel like to ride and will take one out for a spin soon.

Jaizon, you mentioned you believe better options exist rather than the e-trike. What are your thoughts?

Also, I talked for a while today to the lead tech at my bike shop where I bought my new Trek ebike. He's familiar with my situation and I had asked him ideas on how to hack a throttle onto the Bosch Active Line Plus system simply to assist starting from a dead stop. He said he found something called a SpeedBox (https://www.speedbox-tuning.com/p/speedbox-3-0-for-bosch) that can clip into the Bosch system. It deactivates speed limiters and is activated through the 'Walk' function in the Purion display. It works with the Bosch 3rd and 4th generation systems (I have the latter) and my guy's thoughts were to use it when stopped via the Walk function so I can quickly get enough momentum to begin pedaling.

He said he reached out on their site (they're a Czech company) and apparently the speedbox chip is not noticed in the system by Bosch diagnostic tools, possibly saving the warranty.

Anyone hear of this before? It's even sold on Amazon for about $185.

Thanks much.
Keith