The long Biktrix road, my personal battery is dying.

roshan

Well-Known Member
I think a mistake has been made: May I have a picture of how Biktrix thinks this pannier is supposed to be mounted on the Juggernaut Hub Duo?
Here is a video of a bike with the exact same bike rack as on the Hub Duo.

Motor:
I don't understand why the staff would say it is a Bafang G060 motor but not identify the full model number- May I know the full model number? Is it the G060 250/350/500 or 750?
This was a mistake on my staff's part. You'll see that the motor has no Bafang mentioned on it anywhere. The reason for this is because the hub motor is not made by Bafang for this particular model. We do use Bafang G06 on other models like Moto.
The Hub Duos have an OEM custom made motor for us with our spec on it. It is spec'd for a firmware limit of 500W when speed is limited on the display to 32kph. If speed is set to higher than 32kph, the motor is unlocked to 750W.

I made the purchases with 100% good faith.
I was not looking for a street legal bike, I was looking for an ebike for legal ebike use.
1657751787214.png

Did we say 500W and sell you a 750W motor - NO
Did we say 750W and sell you a 500W motor - NO
Did we say 750W and sell you a 750W motor - Yes (as far as I can see because we didn't set the speed limit to 32kph on display as it wasn't requested)
Did you ask us for a 500W motor and we ship you a 750W motor - No
Did you tell us via order notes or any other way before shipping your bike that you needed a 500W motor - No
As you can see above, we sold you the bike on good faith also.


I went to Biktrix.ca's ebike section and called Biktrix pre-sales support. I trusted Biktrix, was that wrong?
Our pre-sales team would have spoken to you about the bikes. But at the end of the day, they did not walk you though the options that you selected when you purchased the bike. We have no control over the options you choose on our website. We assume that most people using the website either selects the correct options (which are self-explanatory), or they contact us for clarifications. Preferably before the order but after placing the order and before shipping it is fine too.
1657752470916.png


With all of that out of the way. What do you want? From what I understand, you want a 500W bike but you're not sure if what you have is a 500W bike. Here's what I recommend:
- go into the settings on the display and check if speed limit is set to 32kph
- if not, set it to 32kph.

Send me a picture of that and we can provide you with a letter that the bike is limited to 500W at the time of the letter. We can include or exclude the fact that the speed limit can be changed and the power modified by changing the setting on the display. This is up to you - let me know what you need.
In terms of pannier bag, keep it or give it away, on the house. I can refund it to you if you're not happy with it (which it does sound like you're not). Just let me know.

This way we can both move on with our short lives.
 
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roshan

Well-Known Member
@roshan
I have one of your Monte Capro. Fantastic bike BTW.
Some time in the near future I would like to buy extra battery. I'm asking because I didn't see it on Biktrix site when I was looking at batteries.
Thanks @Rome
That is one of my favorite bikes from our offerings for sure.
When you need a battery, let our cx team know. We'll hook you up.
That Fox fork upgrade looks great. We wanted to offer that fork as an option but Fox has a 2 year delivery time for OEM.
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
Here is a video of a bike with the exact same bike rack as on the Hub Duo.


This was a mistake on my staff's part. You'll see that the motor has no Bafang mentioned on it anywhere. The reason for this is because the hub motor is not made by Bafang for this particular model. We do use Bafang G06 on other models like Moto.
The Hub Duos have an OEM custom made motor for us with our spec on it. It is spec'd for a firmware limit of 500W when speed is limited on the display to 32kph. If speed is set to higher than 32kph, the motor is unlocked to 750W.


View attachment 128917
Did we say 500W and sell you a 750W motor - NO
Did we say 750W and sell you a 500W motor - NO
Did we say 750W and sell you a 750W motor - Yes (as far as I can see because we didn't set the speed limit to 32kph on display as it wasn't requested)
Did you ask us for a 500W motor and we ship you a 750W motor - No
Did you tell us via order notes or any other way before shipping your bike that you needed a 500W motor - No
As you can see above, we sold you the bike on good faith also.



Our pre-sales team would have spoken to you about the bikes. But at the end of the day, they did not walk you though the options that you selected when you purchased the bike. We have no control over the options you choose on our website. We assume that most people using the website either selects the correct options (which are self-explanatory), or they contact us for clarifications. Preferably before the order but after placing the order and before shipping it is fine too. View attachment 128919

With all of that out of the way. What do you want? From what I understand, you want a 500W bike but you're not sure if what you have is a 500W bike. Here's what I recommend:
- go into the settings on the display and check if speed limit is set to 32kph
- if not, set it to 32kph.

Send me a picture of that and we can provide you with a letter that the bike is limited to 500W at the time of the letter. We can include or exclude the fact that the speed limit can be changed and the power modified by changing the setting on the display. This is up to you - let me know what you need.
In terms of pannier bag, keep it or give it away, on the house. I can refund it to you if you're not happy with it (which it does sound like you're not). Just let me know.

This way we can both move on with our short lives.
Thanks Roshan. No in I mean no one goes to this length. I’ve been on the side of not allowing vendor bitching on forums. Modernvespa has had this policy in their forum for nearly a decade. Members do ask for help sorting an issue but expecting a vendor to respond is ludicrous. And trashing a vendor is BS.

AND There is always MORE TO THE STORY

You and I have known each other and shared information for the better part of seven years. Frankly these are the sorts of situations that convinced me I’d had enough of customer service.

I’d bet my reputation on your honesty and drive to be fair and honest.

Air dirty laundry here and some stray cat will take the piss
 

prestoOne

Member
Region
Canada
Here is a video of a bike with the exact same bike rack as on the Hub Duo.


This was a mistake on my staff's part. You'll see that the motor has no Bafang mentioned on it anywhere. The reason for this is because the hub motor is not made by Bafang for this particular model. We do use Bafang G06 on other models like Moto.
The Hub Duos have an OEM custom made motor for us with our spec on it. It is spec'd for a firmware limit of 500W when speed is limited on the display to 32kph. If speed is set to higher than 32kph, the motor is unlocked to 750W.


View attachment 128917
Did we say 500W and sell you a 750W motor - NO
Did we say 750W and sell you a 500W motor - NO
Did we say 750W and sell you a 750W motor - Yes (as far as I can see because we didn't set the speed limit to 32kph on display as it wasn't requested)
Did you ask us for a 500W motor and we ship you a 750W motor - No
Did you tell us via order notes or any other way before shipping your bike that you needed a 500W motor - No
As you can see above, we sold you the bike on good faith also.



Our pre-sales team would have spoken to you about the bikes. But at the end of the day, they did not walk you though the options that you selected when you purchased the bike. We have no control over the options you choose on our website. We assume that most people using the website either selects the correct options (which are self-explanatory), or they contact us for clarifications. Preferably before the order but after placing the order and before shipping it is fine too. View attachment 128919

With all of that out of the way. What do you want? From what I understand, you want a 500W bike but you're not sure if what you have is a 500W bike. Here's what I recommend:
- go into the settings on the display and check if speed limit is set to 32kph
- if not, set it to 32kph.

Send me a picture of that and we can provide you with a letter that the bike is limited to 500W at the time of the letter. We can include or exclude the fact that the speed limit can be changed and the power modified by changing the setting on the display. This is up to you - let me know what you need.
In terms of pannier bag, keep it or give it away, on the house. I can refund it to you if you're not happy with it (which it does sound like you're not). Just let me know.

This way we can both move on with our short lives.
Yes. Your presales people and post sales people made mistakes, where is the responsibility. After all deceptive/elusive emails (bad faith) Biktrix staff sent me I hope you understand why this new information about an OEM motor is not readily accepted. I believe you must have read those emails.
Your implication that the power rating of the physical motor can be changed is untrue. Your staff said something like: mass production prevents of from complying and some strange statements. Also limiting the supply to 500W makes for a crummy ride; the rest of the world would make a 500W motor that is fed 750W. Yes, I think the way the law is written is odd and I think it is a bit of a frustration for many but I also see its purpose.

Your assertion that there is an option for the motor setting on the online site at purchase: That statement was not true when I made the online purchase or more than a week later. Maybe your I.T. didn't tell you they up dated the site. See, no motor option (doesn't matter to me anyways). Here is a screenshot, like yours but from a week or two ago.

Juggernaut Hub Duo -cart.JPG


Thank you for the video on the panniers at least I know how Biktrix intended these straps be used. 1 plastic snap holding the front does not make for a secure load. The Video left out the part where the customer has to break off and file down the clips. It is clear the pannier isn't wide enough, I don't think the pannier setup is something you would appreciate, have you tried it?
I showed my friend with the old Biktrix setup that recommended the pannier and he said "oh" and not in a good way, not his fault so I dropped it.

I don't know what your staff tell you.

I replied because you took time out to reply to me and I thank you for that. You have done so much with ebikes that it is clear you are passionate about them and your baby (Biktrix). Please email direct if you like, please read the email thread between your staff and I, I can send you a easier to read compiled version.

Kind Regards.
 

prestoOne

Member
Region
Canada
It is a public forum and you guys can whine or bitch if you like but none of you read the emails or were there for presales.

Though I am a bit surprised on the motor statements because they simply do not make sense when making a good bike; Roshan can be an honest person that doesn't mean he knows what his staff are doing or that he can't be stuck in a difficult spot that was not intended.
The site has changed sometime this past week or so AND Roshan is now claiming CS made at least one mistake.

I posted those email quotes in this thread because I was frustrated with CS responses. Some of those were clearly statements routed in convenience for the moment (like 'the cops will never know'), silly analogies and rhetoric. I have worked in CS an sales before and know what they were doing (or not doing). It was upsetting to be treated like that and still not get answers.
I definitely do not feel like a customer.
And you stop the whiners: I don't believe the customer is always right either, I have been on both sides.
 

prestoOne

Member
Region
Canada
Just gotta take the piss
in public… Sad. For clarity I have no interest in Biktrix other than asking for a free bike. But like the other ten I asked, he doesn’t answer my emails
I wasn't going to post anything if Roshan didn't post (he could have emailed me to progress things but yeah, it is my fault (sarcasm)). You have a problem with niceties that is your problem.
You have a misconception of what I seek. What type of idiot expects what you imagine I expect? Again that is your problem.
"no need to air your dirty laundry" maybe take your own advice?
 
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roshan

Well-Known Member
Yes. Your presales people and post sales people made mistakes, where is the responsibility. After all deceptive/elusive emails (bad faith) Biktrix staff sent me I hope you understand why this new information about an OEM motor is not readily accepted. I believe you must have read those emails.
Your implication that the power rating of the physical motor can be changed is untrue. Your staff said something like: mass production prevents of from complying and some strange statements. Also limiting the supply to 500W makes for a crummy ride; the rest of the world would make a 500W motor that is fed 750W. Yes, I think the way the law is written is odd and I think it is a bit of a frustration for many but I also see its purpose.

Your assertion that there is an option for the motor setting on the online site at purchase: That statement was not true when I made the online purchase or more than a week later. Maybe your I.T. didn't tell you they up dated the site. See, no motor option (doesn't matter to me anyways). Here is a screenshot, like yours but from a week or two ago.

View attachment 128924

Thank you for the video on the panniers at least I know how Biktrix intended these straps be used. 1 plastic snap holding the front does not make for a secure load. The Video left out the part where the customer has to break off and file down the clips. It is clear the pannier isn't wide enough, I don't think the pannier setup is something you would appreciate, have you tried it?
I showed my friend with the old Biktrix setup that recommended the pannier and he said "oh" and not in a good way, not his fault so I dropped it.

I don't know what your staff tell you.

I replied because you took time out to reply to me and I thank you for that. You have done so much with ebikes that it is clear you are passionate about them and your baby (Biktrix). Please email direct if you like, please read the email thread between your staff and I, I can send you a easier to read compiled version.

Kind Regards.
I haven't read all your emails as there are an about a 100. You have dissed 3 of my staff before emailing Ryan. I cannot email you as there is a legal requirement that Biktrix stops all communication with you due to the pending Consumer Board case. For the record: Almost all electric motors can be programatically tuned down for power. As long as the copper windings used inside is for particular voltage and torque, amps can be limited which limits power (watts: V x A). See how a German 250W motors (Brose, Bosch, etc) makes 800W. Does this mean its not 250W? lol. You should do some research yourself.
Here is a start:
https://www.digikey.ca/en/articles/how-to-power-and-control-brushless-dc-motors

I unfortunately have no time or patience to explain why and how motors can be limited to certain watts via firmware.
Like I mentioned in my previous post, take a refund for the pannier and do what you wish with it. No other customers who bought the bag with this bike is unhappy so we just need to treat it as a one off. PS: the plastic clips were not cut. They were left stock in the video.
 
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prestoOne

Member
Region
Canada
I haven't read all your emails as there are 100s. You have dissed 3 of my staff before emailing Ryan. I cannot email you as there is a legal requirement that Biktrix stops all communication with you due to the pending Consumer Board case. For the record: Almost all electric motors can be programatically tuned down for power. As long as the copper windings used inside is for particular voltage and torque, amps can be limited which limits power (watts: V x A). See how a German 250W motors (Brose, Bosch, etc) makes 800W. Does this mean its not 250W? lol. You should do some research yourself.
Here is a start:
https://www.digikey.ca/en/articles/how-to-power-and-control-brushless-dc-motors

I unfortunately have no time or patience to explain why and how motors can be limited to certain watts via firmware.
Like I mentioned in my previous post, take a refund for the pannier and do what you wish with it. No other customers who bought the bag with this bike is unhappy so we just need to treat it as a one off. PS: the plastic clips were not cut. They were left stock in the video.
"I haven't read all your emails as there are an about a 100"
or "I haven't read all your emails as there are 100s."
There were by my count a total of 24 total between CS and myself.

After almost 2 weeks and one of the last few emails I informed your staff what I was going to end up contacting the Consumer Board etc. but they brushed me off. I was trying.
 
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roshan

Well-Known Member
"I haven't read all your emails as there are an about a 100"
or "I haven't read all your emails as there are 100s."
There were by my count a total of 24 total between CS and myself.

After almost 2 weeks and one of the last few emails I informed your staff what I was going to end up contacting the Consumer Board etc. but they brushed me off. I was trying.
Hope that made you feel all great and powerful and sleep well at night. Congrats!

Couple of my staff are losing sleep over their jobs but hey who cares about others these days anyway.
 

prestoOne

Member
Region
Canada
Hope that made you feel all great and powerful and sleep well at night. Congrats!

Couple of my staff are losing sleep over their jobs but hey who cares about others these days anyway.
I am just going to PM you one time. No more here. Thanks.