The new Stromer ST5

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, they are rare on the street. I saw only very few and did not have the chance to chat with the riders.I've heard, the Pinion is not as fast as the Di2 and has some disadvantages under load. Is this true?

Regarding the ST5, I expect a classic drivetrain - but something like this on the brakes:

View attachment 18063

I agree. I don't expect the Gates carbon drive on the production model either. There are lots of problems with Gates drive and the torque sensor.
I have heard good things about the Pinion. I have not used one myself for a long time but I did try one. Many traditional mountain bikes are spec'ing the Pinion to reduce the clutter near the rear wheel.
My concern is, big manufacturers like Trek offer bikes starting $2K and stop at $6 or $7k. But, Stromer starts at $5k and goes upto $10K. They are standing true to their tag line "We start where others stop"... :D
 

bluecat

Well-Known Member
upload_2017-8-29_20-46-47.png


Do you have a pic where we can see all the switches (light, Di2, horn)?
 

Chris Nolte

Well-Known Member
I guess I was all wrong on the belt and pinion. Maybe it was wishful thinking. I have also heard of the challenges with the torque sensor and the belt, but there are definitely ways to do it. Grace started doing it years ago, but that was with the BionX motor and it wasn't quite as advanced as the Stromer.

Looking forward to seeing it in person tomorrow
 

JoeBurbidge

New Member
Any recommendations? I'm looking to replace my ST2S saddle with something more comfortable.

Yes, I found the saddle that came with my ST2 S very hard and uncomfortable for long distances. (Although aesthetically, it's beautiful). I replaced it with an old, cheap saddle from a city bike and am very happy with it, actually! It's nothing special but very comfortable! I would never do the same on a racing bicyle, of course...but as I said, riding a Stromer is a very different experience to a normal bike!
 

PTFC Brian

New Member
I am expecting the bike to look something like this. [Pic below]
Pinion is one of the most durable gear boxes. Pinkbike did a great piece on the technology.
It's like Rohloff but with better positioning in the bottom bracket.

I had a chat with the Stromer product manager few months ago and I knew they were working on something with a gates drive.
Also, the BH and Stromer consult the same engineering design unit at Fairly Manufacturing.

(Link Removed - No Longer Exists)
Great design for the ST5! If they could have included the Pinion drive, it would been even better (ultra smooth/quiet). I'm sure they're working on it.

The other feature that no eBike has (that I'm aware of), is rapid recharge. If Stromer could get their battery to recharge in 20 minutes, it would make riding long distances a lot of fun, and would eliminate the need for extra batteries. Riding 100 miles per day with max assist could be common. Imagine if we started thinking about infrastructure to rapid recharge on bike routes?
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Great design for the ST5! If they could have included the Pinion drive, it would been even better (ultra smooth/quiet). I'm sure they're working on it.

The other feature that no eBike has (that I'm aware of), is rapid recharge. If Stromer could get their battery to recharge in 20 minutes, it would make riding long distances a lot of fun, and would eliminate the need for extra batteries. Riding 100 miles per day with max assist could be common. Imagine if we started thinking about infrastructure to rapid recharge on bike routes?

The problem is to have good infrastructure to bike 100 miles a day without worrying about getting hit by a truck or a car.
I have traveled fair bit and I was appalled to see the dilapidated bike infrastructure across the US. Only few pockets of safe trails exist but most city roads are not designed with a cyclist in mind.
product development and the social aspect go hand in hand.

I do have some concerns about Stromer though. Once the market reaches a tipping point, if they don't have enough market share, they will be forced to get out of the game. Right now, the sweet spot for ebikes is $2K but Stromer starts at $5K.
I understand they are not making bike for everyone and I really admire their guts for pushing the envelope. They were the first to introduce 814Whr battery when most products were shipped with 400's, they were the first to introduce a working model of digital connectivity (OMNI) but they consistently pushing things forward.

Regarding your point about rapid charge, it is not in the hands of Stromer. If the cell chemistry, welds, BMS can't handle pumping in 100A, then Stromer can not do anything. Ebike batteries have a constraint of weight which is not existent in electric cars.
Most EV car batteries are hidden in the chasis floor but ebike batteries have to blend in and has to be removable. This puts a lot of constraint. I am sure in 5 years, 1hr charging would be possible or the bike infrastructure in certain parts of the world would be such you just swap the battery and keep moving...
 

Mr. Coffee

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
A Demented Corner of the North Cascades
...
I do have some concerns about Stromer though. Once the market reaches a tipping point, if they don't have enough market share, they will be forced to get out of the game. Right now, the sweet spot for ebikes is $2K but Stromer starts at $5K.
I understand they are not making bike for everyone and I really admire their guts for pushing the envelope. They were the first to introduce 814Whr battery when most products were shipped with 400's, they were the first to introduce a working model of digital connectivity (OMNI) but they consistently pushing things forward....

I wonder how true that is. There seem to be a lot of boutique manufacturers of conventional bikes that have been in business for decades. I don't see how electric bikes would end up being radically different.

I agree that it will be much harder to have an extensive dealer network as the ebike market consolidates. But lots of companies making both ebikes and conventional bikes seem to be doing just fine without a dealer network.
 

PTFC Brian

New Member
The problem is to have good infrastructure to bike 100 miles a day without worrying about getting hit by a truck or a car.
I have traveled fair bit and I was appalled to see the dilapidated bike infrastructure across the US. Only few pockets of safe trails exist but most city roads are not designed with a cyclist in mind.
product development and the social aspect go hand in hand.

I do have some concerns about Stromer though. Once the market reaches a tipping point, if they don't have enough market share, they will be forced to get out of the game. Right now, the sweet spot for ebikes is $2K but Stromer starts at $5K.
I understand they are not making bike for everyone and I really admire their guts for pushing the envelope. They were the first to introduce 814Whr battery when most products were shipped with 400's, they were the first to introduce a working model of digital connectivity (OMNI) but they consistently pushing things forward.

Regarding your point about rapid charge, it is not in the hands of Stromer. If the cell chemistry, welds, BMS can't handle pumping in 100A, then Stromer can not do anything. Ebike batteries have a constraint of weight which is not existent in electric cars.
Most EV car batteries are hidden in the chasis floor but ebike batteries have to blend in and has to be removable. This puts a lot of constraint. I am sure in 5 years, 1hr charging would be possible or the bike infrastructure in certain parts of the world would be such you just swap the battery and keep moving...
This is exactly where the conversation should go. Road infrastructure, both highways and interstates, are in great need of replacement. EV's and autonomous vehicles will be at the table to help create the vision for smart road design. As eBike enthusiasts, we need to understand the deficiencies (safety and charging), and work towards a better future. Imagine having the freedom to go on eBike treks on any given week or weekend. eBike technology will continue to improve. Our task should be expanding the opportunities to use them.

Rapid recharge will be possible.
 

Ravi Kempaiah

Well-Known Member
Ravi, what is preventing current batteries from accepting a 120V/12A charge? Can the cells not support it?

Tesla supercharger charges at 400A but the car has something 7000 cells, so at the cell level it is still 1C or 2C current.
On the contrary, ebike has 50-70 cells and charging and discharging at 5C will degrade the cells quickly. yes, the chemistry at bulk level is still not at the point. May be some prototypes exist that can handle huge power density.
Also, most EV's have a dedicated power electronics/ very sophisticated BMS unit that manages a lot of things. Including all that on an ebike would increase the weight and cost significantly.

An ebike under 50lbs with 750whr capacity would be enough for 99% of the applications.
 
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bluecat

Well-Known Member
As promised some photos

Thanks.

By Swiss law, 1000W is maximum. The upcoming EU law also allows 1000W power. So, the ST5 motor will have 800W nominal and unknown peak power. Furthermore, 48NM will support you. These values are clearly above the ST2 motor.


upload_2017-9-1_23-26-46.png
 

bluecat

Well-Known Member
The horn and it's switch is provided by Supernova. It sounds more like a car horn than a piezo.

upload_2017-9-1_23-32-31.png
 

JRA

Well-Known Member
Integrated bar and stems look cool but relegate any attempt at proper bike fit to frame size and seat post adjustment parameters.
 

JayVee

Well-Known Member
Hopefully the R&D that went into this bike will trickle down into some of the cheaper models. The ST3 and ST4 names might be placeholders for that.

@bluecat - How does the battery ejection mechanism work? Is it hydraulic or driven by a motor?
 

bluecat

Well-Known Member
@bluecat - How does the battery ejection mechanism work? Is it hydraulic or driven by a motor?

By gravity.

The key for the lock is replaced by a button. This button seems to be electric or electromagnetic. It will be activated over the touchscreen. So, you don't have to carry the key with you (to overcome a drive error).

The horn located at a place, where it might be exposed to dirt and water:

upload_2017-9-4_22-17-41.png