Too Many Posters Asking Others To Do Web Searches For Them

kevinmccune

Active Member
Region
USA
I understand the issue and sometimes I get a little chuckle out of some questions, especially those that seem much more suitable for a Google search. Still, this is a discussion forum and I think it's mostly great that new people join all the time. They may ask dumb questions for a while, sometimes for way too long, but by in large it seems like a lot of them bring value soon enough if they aren't run off. Or they go away.... I'm not sure what it hurts to see a question more than once over time. Plus, it's really easy to ignore a post or thread that you don't like or doesn't interest you.

I'm pretty sure I've seen at least a thread or two on this general subject here before, but I'm too lazy to do a forum search to investigate. :rolleyes:

TT
Thank you so much it's about all of us, not just a handful.
 

kenny4

New Member
Region
USA
GULP!!!---I just posted my first Question, " Help with comparing Lectric 2.0 with the new Lite model ". I had already watched several vids on both, but had thought that perhaps there might be a family on here who owned both and could give hands on opinions. To the op---I used to be on a very active motorcycle forum and those of us who were more seasoned than others would step aside at the newbie redundant questions, but when those who were learning couldn't answer or answered wrong, then we'd step in. I think it's rude to send someone away telling them to google it. After all it's a forum, a place to ask questions and enjoy meeting folks of similar interests.
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Minnesnowta
I think it's rude to send someone away telling them to google it. After all it's a forum, a place to ask questions and enjoy meeting folks of similar interests.
I think you’ll find many pitching a bitch here DO often take a moment to help. You make a reasonable point.
 

PDoz

Well-Known Member
It seems to me that far too many of the posters on this forum don't even bother to do a web search for the information or parts they need. Rather, they just do a quick post here basically asking others to do their searching for them.

A request for advice about what works and what doesn't, which bikes might be most suitable given a particular use case, which product are better, last longer or solve particular problems or how to go about diagnosing or fixing a problems are totally legit IMO.

If you want the specs on a bike or its components that info can usually be found on the makers web site or you can remove it and measure it. If you want to know how many teeth your Gates belt has, count the teeth. If you want to know how to do a routine maintenance or repair, YouTube is full of great how to videos. If you want a particular part, learn how to describe what you are seeking, find out the part numbers and do a thorough web search.

Maybe it's just that I am just becoming a grumpy old man, but there seems to be an epidemic of laziness driving some of the requests for help sourcing parts or what are the specs for components when people can take the time to search out this info for themselves.

Have you never read a " simple" question that prompted you to do research that has expended your knowledge?

Or better still, discovered from someone else's reply that what you " know" is wrong? I've lost count of how many times handlebars has sent me down the rabbit hole and I've scrambled out jus5 a little more knowledgeable ( and a LOT more confused).

I can go out and count how many links are on the chain of my giant, or google how many it had stock. Different answer - but because someone asked elsewhere how to work out the correct number of links I know there are 2 links too many ( except when I swap to the larger chainwheel ) . Now my head hurts.
 

Cowlitz

Well-Known Member
To heck with the front wheel, it's the rear wheel that gets complicated and I'll have to google it to see if anyone has come up with a detailed explanation that my simple brain can understand.

Rabbifravitz ^%$** complicated Gazelle! mumble when you read that.
 

Slorider

Member
Region
USA
That is what you will find with a lot of late adopters, the first time on an ebike and they are literally speechless. On the question of liking a brand others badmouth ignore them and get on with your life, there are always a fair amount of "killjoys" in any forum. Another thing that was mentioned, not everybody has the time to read seven pages of replies when they see a legit question, some are glad and eager to share and its a strange thing(( this happens a lot) even this forum is starting to run out of steam and there seems to be an increasing amount of criticism toward others for no good reason.I have seen a lot of forums go to pot when a few brassy People start condescending and are really critical toward others. If anybody is tired of People communicating as best they can, perhaps they need to find another forum where their superlative abilities will save the day
Live and let live for Pete's sake People come here for enjoyment and pleasure, getting a good answer is always a bonus, if you think posters are puerile and stupid you should look at some of the posts on such forums as Quora( Plan B or any of them take your pick)
There’s always going to be people who are negative. I’ve come to accept the fact that if Jesus Christ came down today and turned one loaf of bread into enough bread to feed everyone their would be that one person complaining that it’s not gluten-free bread and there’s no butter to go with it. I’m on quite a few tech forms and it’s the same thing. You’ll have people hating on a brand in a forum that’s only for that brand so you wonder why they’re there. If they hate the brand that much are they just there to troll? I don’t think so I think they’re just really negative people who can’t stand the fact that anything could be positive. It’s the same way with Rad. If I post about how I really love my RadCity there’s going to be those people that post about how the components are cheap and their service sucks. It’s possible both of those points are true but some people will only focus on that versus how much enjoyment they could get by riding the bicycle. They’re probably like that with everything in their life.

I know the feeling about dumb questions because in any forum there’s someone that will ask dumb questions because they didn’t even bother reading the instructions. Who hasn’t seen the “Can I just leave my E bike plugged in when not riding it” question. If they even bothered opening the manual they would know the answer to that question but no. Even in that situation I think it’s best to be positive and explain to that person that no that’s not a good idea and maybe they should read the manual because there’s a lot of safety tips about the battery and avoiding fires. Maybe then that person will seek think well that’s a good idea I should read the manual. Maybe not because they just don’t care or whatever but that’s not my problem because I tried.

At the moment I am typing this I can’t remember if this forum has a section for new members asking questions but that’s a very good thing to have in forums. Noobs could ask dumb questions and bored people could just answer them. It’s not like this form gets a whole lot of traffic so even dumb questions could be beneficial traffic to it. Also if that noob asking dumb questions has a good experience in this forum he might stick around and be a knowledgeable person five years later helping others. If he is treated badly he’ll probably just go away and that’s one less person to bring traffic to the forums
 

Alaskan

Well-Known Member
I am not advocating treating people badly but rather as gently as possible, let them know that it would be a good idea to read the manual. Point out that there is a search function at the top of every page where you can seek out answers to your question that have already been provided in great depth with links and photos, etc. There really is quite an archive of valuable information on this forum. Yes there is also some bone fide hooey but this is the internet and that stuff is everywhere. If you can't find what you are looking for, by all means ask away.

If you are asking for recommendations about which bike might work best for you, it is always a good idea to state where you live, what kind of riding you do, your general fitness level, how much biking experience and if you have the time, tools, know how and inclination to do much of your own maintenance or if you would rather have someone else do that. You will still get people advocating that you get the same bike they bought even though it is totally unsuitable for your situation. But others will actually read what you wrote and respond with recommendations and information that is really appropriate for you.

Same with asking for help diagnosing and fixing a problem. The more information you can provide, the better the answers you will get...usually
 
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Gionnirocket

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Y. O.
I am not advocating treating people badly but rather as gently as possible, let them know that it would be a good idea to read the manual. Point out that there is a search function at the top of every page where you can seek out answers to your question that have already been provided in great depth with links and photos, etc. There really is quite an archive of valuable information on this forum. Yes there is also some bone fide hooey but this is the internet and that stuff is everywhere. If you can't find what you are looking for, by all means ask away.

If you are asking for recommendations about which bike might work best for you, it is always a good idea to state where you live, what kind of riding you do, your general fitness level, how much biking experience and if you have the time, tools, know how and inclination to do much of your own maintenance or if you would rather have someone else do that. You will still get people advocating that you get the same bike they bought even though it is totally unsuitable for your situation. But others will actually read what you wrote and respond with recommendations and information that is really appropriate for you.

Same with asking for help diagnosing and fixing a problem. The more information you can provide, the better the answers you will get...usually
nopity.gif
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Minnesnowta
There’s always going to be people who are negative. I’ve come to accept the fact that if Jesus Christ came down today and turned one loaf of bread into enough bread to feed everyone their would be that one person complaining that it’s not gluten-free bread and there’s no butter to go with it. I’m on quite a few tech forms and it’s the same thing. You’ll have people hating on a brand in a forum that’s only for that brand so you wonder why they’re there. If they hate the brand that much are they just there to troll? I don’t think so I think they’re just really negative people who can’t stand the fact that anything could be positive. It’s the same way with Rad. If I post about how I really love my RadCity there’s going to be those people that post about how the components are cheap and their service sucks. It’s possible both of those points are true but some people will only focus on that versus how much enjoyment they could get by riding the bicycle. They’re probably like that with everything in their life.

I know the feeling about dumb questions because in any forum there’s someone that will ask dumb questions because they didn’t even bother reading the instructions. Who hasn’t seen the “Can I just leave my E bike plugged in when not riding it” question. If they even bothered opening the manual they would know the answer to that question but no. Even in that situation I think it’s best to be positive and explain to that person that no that’s not a good idea and maybe they should read the manual because there’s a lot of safety tips about the battery and avoiding fires. Maybe then that person will seek think well that’s a good idea I should read the manual. Maybe not because they just don’t care or whatever but that’s not my problem because I tried.

At the moment I am typing this I can’t remember if this forum has a section for new members asking questions but that’s a very good thing to have in forums. Noobs could ask dumb questions and bored people could just answer them. It’s not like this form gets a whole lot of traffic so even dumb questions could be beneficial traffic to it. Also if that noob asking dumb questions has a good experience in this forum he might stick around and be a knowledgeable person five years later helping others. If he is treated badly he’ll probably just go away and that’s one less person to bring traffic to the forums
Some of go out our way to help
 

Jason Knight

Active Member
Region
USA
City
Keene, NH
I hear this same complaint on web development forums a lot, and usually my response to people saying this runs along the lines of "stop being such a jerk"

Sadly forums oft become insular that way, with effete elitists looking down their noses at nubes, the poor, or anyone else who isn't privileged enough to light money on fire, or experienced enough to even know what to search for.

That last part being an important one. "Normal people" don't know the difference between a seatpost, seat tube, or seat stay. Look at the amount of crazy made up terms people use to describe different parts of a bike frame. Even if you are mechanically inclined with engineering experience, a lot of terms -- bottom bracket for example -- are complete gibberish. Such as when there's nothing remotely resembling what the word bracket even means. To compare to web development, it's like how normal people don't know that Java is to JavaScript as Ham is to Hamburger. And then you have the morons who don't even know that hamburger is beef.

A rookie may simply not even know enough of the terminology to form a relevant search term!

Then of course there's the fact they may have -- like I did -- landed on this forum in a search even though the question wasn't answered here already. You find a forum full of people knowledgeable on topics, how DARE the nube ask a question? To blazes with that and foxtrot right off with that entire attitude!

Similarly -- as a web developer I know this one far too well -- on a lot of topics you'll find search filled with sellers listing products that may or may not be relevant, a match, etc. Again take a bottom bracket where we have a half dozen different diameters and hundreds of width combinations between the shell and the shaft. Compounded by the fact that many companies don't even list what BB cart they're using so if you've not taken it out, you're in the dark.

Given the plethora of non-standardization, lack of information from sellers and builders, piss-poor support from bikes normal people can afford, it's hardly a shock normal people who don't have bike shops in their garages or an LBS they can trust come here asking questions. Questions YOU might know what to google for, but they most certainly do not!

Thus why "just go to your LBS" is as arrogant and assumptive as "Just spend two thousand more" or "Google it stupid!". As if they even have access to such a thing, or haven't already tried that. FFS Googling it might be what brought them here!

A situation only exacerbated by another aspect of web development, the sleazy dirtbag rubbish that is "black hat search engine optimization" -- SEO.

There is legitimate SEO, it usually involves writing pages in an accessible manner so that non-visual user-agents (a browser is a UA but a UA isn't always a browser) can figure out what the content is. There's a whole host of things like logical document structure, semantic markup, and dozens of other things most of you likely don't know that's involved.

The problem is there are a lot of predatory scam artist bunko peddlers who know how to temporarily 'game the system" to make it look like their BS works in the short term, so they can pull a Billy Joe and Bobby Sue, and take the money and run before it blows up in the site owners face. Through tricks and manipulation they get their pages to page 1 of google, when the content is utterly irrelevant to what any user wants. Thus "google it stupid" doesn't work when disreputable snake oil doctors abuse the algorithms to put their turds devoid of content front-and-center. The proverbial can of shellac on a pile.

An example of this is a guy I knew a decade ago who claimed to be an SEO god. He held up as the pinnacle of his work how a site he built for a Photoshop plugin was #1 in search for a specific term.

In marketing there's this concept called "non-competing competitors", where a company gets so obsessed with competing, they end up wasting time and money going up against companies that aren't even their competitors. It's one of the major logic fallacies that scammers pretending to be marketers use to hold onto their jobs. How is that relevant?

Every other listing in the SERPs (Search Engine Results Pages) for this guys search phrase were for automotive powder coating, not photoshop plugins. That's the "keywords research scam" where they cherry pick a term nobody is competing for in the space, that people are entering into search, to drive traffic to the site. What makes it a scam is that said traffic isn't looking for your product, so whist yes you're getting buns in seats, you're not getting coins in your coffers from them. In business that's called "conversions", converting someone who came in the door into a sale. If you're spending time and money on marketing trickery that doesn't result in conversions, you're just lighting money on fire.

Thus search while an amazing tool if you know what you're looking for and how to word it properly, between marketing scams, advertising scams, site development scams, and the ignorance of people new to a topic, it is not the be-all end-all that magically works for everyone.

And to assume it is -- particularly for people not as knowledgeable as yourself on a topic -- amounts to nothing more than being a pompous, egotistical, pretentious, snooty, uppity, conceited snob who needs to get the foxtrot hotel off their high horse!
 
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kevinmccune

Active Member
Region
USA
Not trolling when you don’t agree is paramount,
There is a level of assumption (particularly among veteran posters and users) that when sometimes providing the 'gist" of an answer we can resort to "allegory' and other such tools. The great spiritual leader Jesus did and it sometimes threw the literal sticklers for a loop it got others thinking. His brother"James' wrote a little treatise on "Faith', in a nutshell, He said if we have true faith then we will act on it. This brings us back to our core beliefs that Ebikes are the greatest thing since sliced bread and by encouraging others and helping those who are "weak in the faith" it grows our "body' and provides benefits for all as well as improvements in range, comfort. sometimes lower costs as well.'.We do not want the "millstone of snobbery" tied around our necks, to discourage the young and weak in faith so to speak.
My take away is this, come on People post the banal and silly posts, join, join! The Elders will soon straighten you out, on the other hand do not "Troll' you waste everyones time. Not all of us have a lot of 'disposable income and sure as the sun comes up tomorrow there are many products that are overpriced( thats called capitalism) just bide your time and read there is a category that fits nearly everyone. Every ebike displaces a smattering of petrol and that is hope for a "clearer tomorrow( not to mention the manifold benefits)