Torque sensor vs Cadence...

GenXrider

Active Member
So all torque based systems are now potentially troublesome since the bafang M600 has crappy programming? FWIW, the bafang m600 isnt a mainstream system like brose/bosch/yamaha/shimano.

Not "all". I said that I've read various posts, but I wouldn't translate that to mean "all" torque based PAS are potentially troublesome because of that one post, when I never said "all" and specifically said that was just ONE example, so you shouldn't conclude anything by that single reference.

Many complain of bad programming for some cadence based PAS systems, so can I use your logic and conclude that all cadence based PAS systems are potentially troublesome?

I never made such a conclusion. I simply pointed out a fact that I had read something repeatedly while giving just one example of many. I never made a jump to making a conclusion that all torque sensor based PAS systems are potentially bad/unnatural.

Why do you think cadence based PAS is better for rural roads? I ride rural roads everyday, what am I missing?
I said that I "didn't prefer" a torque sensor for riding on rural roads. I didn't say cadence is better. I think it's less important when you are just riding along pedaling continuously vs. riding on trails on a mountain bike due to the nature of how torque based PAS functions based on hours of reading from people that have either or both. So, I'm more neutral on the issue in regard to rural riding, and I don't think it's the best value to spend the extra on torque sensor based PAS bikes for that purpose. The feedback I've read indicates the torque based sensor PAS systems seem more touchy and more difficult to get right vs. cadence sensor based PAS.

My preference for now remains to get a cadence sensor based PAS in my first couple e-bikes, which will be primarily ridden on rural roads. For a mountain bike, I see more of an advantage to the mid drive bikes and torque sensor based PAS. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. I'm sorry if that offends anyone. Maybe I'll change my mind someday when I get first hand experience on different bikes, but I'm just trusting in what I've read from the majority at this point, not any single anecdote.
 
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GenXrider

Active Member
I would never argue why you should enjoy what I prefer, it's pretty obvious to most the reason they make both types is because they are both popular. Is one type "best" or better? Oh please....save it for the choir.

Yeah, I've noticed people are touchy on these different topics: cadence vs. torque, hub drive vs. mid drive, fat vs. standard tires, and they take it personally if something is stated that doesn't match up with their beleifs, experiences, or what they already spent their money on.
 

GenXrider

Active Member
I also agree with what was said above - Many bikes can be programmed at their display for a total of 3, 5 or 9 levels of pedal assist. Many ask (I did at first) "why would I want to have to cycle through and choose from 9 different levels?" The answer to me: To have more discrete control of a hub motored bike with cadence sensor.
Yep, that's one of the things I really like about the Ride1UP that I posted the chart for up above, plus being able to modify each assist level to a custom setting is very nice as well. I wish this was more common in e-bikes.
 

Gongon

New Member
I have just begun the daunting task of researching the different brands, models & technical features available on eBikes. (No small task, lol) My aim is to buy a bike (maybe two,) that has the features, performance, comfort, reliability & customer support that meets my needs. EBR YouTube videos are very helpful.

One aspect I do not see addressed much is torque sensor verses cadence (how hard you are pedaling.) Many of the mid range bikes have only the cadence type sensing which from my understanding, only senses that you are pedaling but not how hard. (So the motor applies the full PAS power whenever you pedal? ...Like a on/off switch?)

On the other hand I understand that bikes fitted with a strain gauge type torque sensor, senses how hard you are actually pedaling & responds with a proportional amount of electrical assist.

I have a friend who owns several eBikes & he says it's all about torque sensing & that a cadence type system is vastly inferior to the torque sensor. Is there actually a big difference in the way the two systems work & more so, is there really a big difference in the way each bike performs?

Anyone with experience riding both types of sensing?... do you feel that one system works better than the other and if so why? Can you explain any advantages or disadvantages to either?

Oh... and for the record, I anticipate doing mostly street riding, paved & gravel roads, along with some lite trail excursions.

Happy riding to All & thanks for your input!

Ride On... :cool:
ERD
Hello Mate

I have just installed a Bafang 1000w BBSHD mid mount system (which has cadence PAS) and ridden it 3 times on my local "bike park" trails

My next door neighbour comes with me and has a Giant Fathom e bike with torque sensing PAS.

The Fathom is excellent on the trails with instant power and shut off on demand.

My Bafang system, however, is a very different animal! The power "comes in" after about 1/2 a pedal revolution. When it does, with 1000w, acceleration is quite noticeable depending on the level of power assist.

As I said, I have ridden it 3 times on trails and (and up and down my driveway dozens of times)

I haven't quite got the hang of it yet.

On uphill climbs when I arrive at rocks, I need to anticipate the power needed and usually get it wrong!

If I "go too early" I end up crashing over the rocks.

If I go late, there isn't enough power to get over the rocks.

It may be technique (I have started experimenting with the thumb throttle to give the extra power but it's a bit too abrupt at present).

I am assuming that technique alongside some adjusting of the controller will help.

I won't give up (I used to ride 55 year old trials bikes and they were beasts!)

Also, at the moment, I haven't been able to figure out how to fit the brake sensors so the motor runs on a split second after I stop pedalling - Ok on the road but a nuisance in the bush. (Not sure if that's common to all cadence sensing motors?)

My mates Fathom is much more user friendly with instant power reaction from pedal input.

Not so user friendly at times such as when applying power riding around a tree on sand when the sudden input causes traction loss and subsequently dumping the rider. I've seen this happen with two different riders. again, a question of technique. In those situations my bike would be relying initially on leg power only so less likely to break traction.

Having said that, using the throttle on my Bafang to get moving on an uphill trail is a great help compared with the balancing act getting the Fathom going by pedalling.

I do prefer the Baafang though but that isn't to do with the pedalling, I much prefer the 1000w motor for climbing the trails. The Fathom is limited to 250W in Australia (as it is designed to be used on the roads as well) so I do leave it far behind on those climbs.

I have no desire to use the roads so top speed is more than acceptable at 26 km/hr.

In my case, I was in a hurry to get an e bike, the shops had none due to covid-19 rush and Bafang kit was at Luna Cycles 30 minutes away and I had two mountain bikes to choose from. Rod, the proprietor at Luna was very helpful and I expect his support will be second to none.

Hopefully this is of some help to you - Tom
 

SLONomad

Member
I just bought an eAhora AM100 with cadence sensors. At first, I was very disappointed. The motor seemed to have a mind of its own, surging faster when I wanted to go slower. But once I realized I could program it, the problem is much less noticeable. I changed the default from 3 power level settings to 5 and lowered the Level 1 power assist from 56 to 45%. This is especially important when taking sharp turns where you want to have good speed control without braking. After reading the posts above, I may program it to 7 or 9 levels and lower the assist force on Level 1 even further. That said, if you are wanting to do serious mountain trails, I would think you would want the response and control of a torque sensor.