Toyota CEO brings up excellent observation about Tesla

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Deleted member 4210

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Considering Tesla loses money literally on every copy sold, including even the higher priced models that only show a 'profit' on paper, it's their debt load per car that makes the company deeply negative, and highly unprofitable.

Their primary saving grace has been their stock price, bid up by rather speculative and frothy markets, multiplied by the existence of massive quantitative easing that has been in place since the earliest days of Tesla. That sort of 'tail wind' has afforded Musk the leeway to take numerous risks. That plus SUBSTANTIAL subsidies at federal level, state level, and even internationally, makes it even more fortunate to still be operating as a going concern.

At some point the runway will evaporate and they'll have to fly under their own power, un-aided by these massive tailwinds, and the considerable generosity of OPM.

Toyota can back up everything they say, as they have earned the right to do from providing decades of unparalleled reliability and safety in all of their cars, really essentially being the primary catalyst that kicked American car makers to get their heads out of their you know what's, and actually learn how to produce quality vehicles. The 70's, 80's, and 90's were an absolute embarrassment for US car makers.

Toyota remains the standard bearer for the entire industry. Their hybrid vehicles remain the most reliable of ALL vehicles on the planet, surpassing all ICE only vehicles with many of their batteries lasting 300,000 miles. No one else comes remotely close. Toyota too has 'forgotten more' about battery technology than Tesla will ever learn. They just don't brag about it or wear it on their proverbial shirt sleeves.

They have more patents on battery technology than every other car maker combined, including Tesla. Same thing with fuel cells and fuel cell vehicle technology, which will by the way replace battery operated vehicles sooner than anyone suspects. On board actual fuel beats energy storage every which way to Sunday.

Toyota has not been in any rush or hurry to perfect electric only battery only cars. They are content to allow firms like Tesla be the commercialization and regulatory pioneer, along with taking all the arrows that go with being 'first.'

Musk may be 'smart' but clearly he is just not wise. He simply does not have the decades of manufacturing years of experience nor profitable car making experience and his team is very shallow compared to Team Toyota.

Toyota realizes this is a marathon, not a sprint. What their dealers are trained on with hybrid vehicles will be (as is now) light years ahead of any Tesla dealership or any other car markers dealers. Their factory training and dealer training for every car subject matter, remains the envy of the industry. Your dealers and their training, beyond just the quality of the cars themselves, will make or break your company's profitability. That's why most auto stock prices stink. It's not the advent of EV's that are doing them in. It's their lack of training of dealers, and lack of continuous training and learning at their factory's and in their corporations that have contributed toward their low valuations.
 
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smorgasbord

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
That's total nonsense:
1) Tesla has been GAAP profitable for 5 quarters now, and has increased Free Cash Flow every quarter as real profits roll in.
2) Tesla has not received subsidies from any government agency in years (GHG credits are not paid by the government, they're paid by other automotive OEMs that continue to make too many polluting vehicles - both in the US and in Europe).

Toyota has missed out on the switch to BEVs, and like all the other existing legacy OEMs is years behind the technology. We see BEVs from Ford, Audi, VW, BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar, etc. all fail to sell in any significant volumes, mostly because they fail to adequately compete on features, performance, and charging availability. GM's latest Hummer EV announcement fails to impress - their cheapest pickup is tens of thousands of dollars more expensive than Tesla's most expensive, yet doesn't have the range, bed length, etc. It's clear now to almost everyone (and Tesla's stock price reflects) that the future for personal transportation is indeed electric. VM's CEO just pointed out that Bentley will be an EV maker in 5-6 years. They're years, if not more than a decade, behind Tesla.

If you doubt this, read "The Innovator's Dilemma" by Christian Clayton. He has examples of past technology disruptions from disk drive companies to large scale excavators.

What I still don't get today is all the hate that US citizens have on what is the most American of car companies. Teslas sold in the US are designed AND built in the US. Other so-called 'American OEMs' build cars for the US market in Mexico, Canada, or elsewhere. The company deserves our support for leading the world to more sustainable transportation, plus green energy generation and storage.
 

BigNerd

Well-Known Member
Many have been down on Tesla since forever, and with each new vehicle release, they prove the doubters wrong.

If not for Tesla, I doubt all the other cars companies would even be coming out with EVs.

Toyota is one of my favorite brands, I've driven them for most of my adult life... but they are behind the curve... they are just now adding usable PHEVs to their lines but they should be working on more pure EVs.
 

Lantley

Member
Toyota is just like the others. They are missing the EV boat. Tesla has shown that EV is for real and not something for the drawing board.
Tesla has changed the game!
 

FlatSix911

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Silicon Valley
Here is a more balanced review from Electrek... the free market investor always wins! ;)


The fact that Tesla is more valuable than Toyota has nothing to do with whatever Toyoda is talking about with his strange cooking analogy, it has to do with the fact that Tesla is dominating the electric market (aka the future of the auto industry), while Toyota is barely dipping its toes in it and distracting itself with hybrids and hydrogen fuel cells.

If I wanted to buy an electric Toyota right now, I’d be all out of luck unless I’m in China, where the Japanese automaker is making a bigger battery-electric push to comply with regulations. Based on their own official predictions, they plan to sell about a half-million battery-electric vehicles per year in 2025. That’s about what Tesla is making today, and by 2025, Tesla plans to be making millions of electric vehicles per year and they are currently investing in and building the capacity to do that. They also make cool products and are looking at the big picture by including energy generation into their portfolio.

Look no further. That’s what investors are impressed by, and why they value Tesla more than Toyota.
 

Deacon Blues

Well-Known Member
I phoned my local Toyota dealership to put my name on a waiting list for the new RAV4 Prime.
Earliest possible purchase timeline.....2 YEARS! 🤬
 

Dallant

Well-Known Member
Tesla has been hurt by monopolistic dealership laws in many if not most states but still has done a phenomenal job.
 

Dallant

Well-Known Member
 

Dallant

Well-Known Member
As an owner of many Toyota’s through the years (including 3 hybrids) I’m seeing them cheap out more and more and there’s lots of complaints I’ve read about pretty basic stuff. Though it’s good, the hybrid is all they’ve got to hang their hats on these days IMO. I‘ll be looking much harder elsewhere in the future.
 

E-Wheels

Well-Known Member
As an owner of many Toyota’s through the years (including 3 hybrids) I’m seeing them cheap out more and more and there’s lots of complaints I’ve read about pretty basic stuff. Though it’s good, the hybrid is all they’ve got to hang their hats on these days IMO. I‘ll be looking much harder elsewhere in the future.
Maybe Toyota are betting on the other horse in the race
 

Ebiker01

Well-Known Member
onsidering Tesla loses money literally on every copy sold, including even the higher priced models that only show a 'profit' on paper, it's their debt load per car that makes the company deeply negative, and highly unprofitable.


You've been living under a rock. Do you have any clue about their casting machine and newer cels that saves them tons of billions on top of the already lower battery packs made by them ??

Again, as far as Tesla characterization you are clueless and totally misinformed.

Many additional members will help you out on this thread and present the positive facts. Toyota is pretty much done.

It really is how the Tesla CEO said it best many years ago Buying a gas car is like buying a horse ! Meaning is obsolete.

- Tesla car: 350miles range, 1million miles life, tires and brake pads only expenditures ever. Maybe some other minor things...

- Gas car: A TON of expenses
 

Ebiker01

Well-Known Member
Just more 💩 from the same person who spews it daily.


He must be payed buy some oil industry insiders or maybe he offered to help them. Really dumb on this member.

Yes Ebikes owners BUy ELECTRIC CARS in Massive Numbers. We are putting the combustion engine to sleep and the oil industry is DOOMED. i

And mikey can't convince us otherwise.

MIKEY's Gas Car FIRE SALE:

ALL GAS CARS 90% OFF, THAT's right: 90% OFF UNTIL DEC.31st.

-TOYOTAS From 27000$ DOWN to 2699$

-TOYOTAS From 35.000$ DOWN to 2499$

- SUV TOYOTAS Ftom 42.000 DOWN to 1599$

Mention code "ebiker01" or " rideebike" for an additional 500$ OFF !!
 

Ebiker01

Well-Known Member
. VM's CEO just pointed out that Bentley will be an EV maker in 5-6 years. They're years, if not more than a decade, behind Tesla.


Another ex. is Volvo: Their Polestar Ev is 20.000$ more then the Model 3.

Then VW ID4 has a decade old software and integration. PLUS no FSD, AUTOPILOT, SENTRY, SMART SUMMON. Just the peace of mind that comes from having a car with 8cameras and very hard to be stolen or almost impossible with the new 2FA Protocol.
Tmrw. the Tsla stock will be up 10% due to the Presidential results. GO GREEN !!
 

BigNerd

Well-Known Member
I phoned my local Toyota dealership to put my name on a waiting list for the new RAV4 Prime.
Earliest possible purchase timeline.....2 YEARS! 🤬

Yeah... was so excited for Toyota's summer release but then the reports about how they didn't build enough for their Japan market and dealers marking up the RAV Prime prior to release. I was planning on getting one but I can lease a Model Y for about the same considering the mark-ups.

Here in SoCal, the Model 3 is slowly becoming the Honda/Toyota [pick model]. I've looked at numerous EVs and it's either... not as good or as advanced as Tesla for the price... or coming out next year or the year after that (which keeps getting pushed off).

And everyone is jumping into the electric truck space 2 years later... but who wants to bet who will be the first and biggest?
 

smorgasbord

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
The real lesson of The Innovator's Dilemma is that large and successful companies that don't make the transition to the new technology fail. There are several examples in the book, but the one that sticks in my mind is cable-driven excavators. These easily went from steam to gasoline since that wasn't disruptive (keep the same basic machine architecture with cables and such, just replace a steam engine with a gas engine). But, when hydraulics came along with a completely different machine architecture (for instance, no cables), there was much resistance. The bug-a-boo of hydraulics was that initially they couldn't be made big and strong enough for large-scale excavating. Some companies make hybrids that used cables for the big arm articulation and hydraulics for the shovel itself. When the technology was able to scale up, however, all the existing excavator manufacturers went out of business. ALL.
It's hard enough for successful companies to make the transition when they want to - look at Kodak, which had early digital cameras that were very well reviewed. Hybrid models often fail, too. Look at Blockbuster, which tried doing both by mail and in-store rentals. But, a company like Toyota that is actively resisting the new technology is even more likely to fail. As noted above, it may be ironic that VW's cheating with diesel emissions may turn out to have saved them, by forcing them into the future they wouldn't choose on their own.
Go back 5-8 years ago and you'll read a lot about how many people thought automotive hybrids were the future. You don't see hardly anyone exposing that opinion today. Toyoda's restaurant comparison shows just how out of touch he is. It's textbook.

Toyota is toast. It may take 10 years or more, but they're toast. Revisit this post in 2030 or 2035.
 

Handlebars

Well-Known Member
Region
Canada
That's total nonsense:

2) Tesla has not received subsidies from any government agency in years (GHG credits are not paid by the government, they're paid by other automotive OEMs that continue to make too many polluting vehicles - both in the US and in Europe).

The distinction you made is relatively without merit. Government has tilted the playing field by rewarding and punishing.
 

JRA

Well-Known Member
Isn’t it the plan for the planet to be petro free in as near a future as probable?? Tesla’s success seems to be driving the bus for the better and to I guess some the worse.

Biggest obstacle I see is what to do with all the expended battery’s as this rolls on. EBikes included.
 

alfaman

Member
Region
USA
I phoned my local Toyota dealership to put my name on a waiting list for the new RAV4 Prime.
Earliest possible purchase timeline.....2 YEARS! 🤬
I was looking at them as well, but found out that the can be totaled by hitting the front fender...this guy is the a great source of info on toyotas ...i am no longer in the market for a prime but hear they sell them fast