TranzX (throttle type) drives vs gear obsession (Bosch/others)..what am I missing?

DashRiprock

Active Member
To be fair, I am not a time-trial junkie nor do I have any experience whatsoever off road on bicycles of any kind. I have an IZIP Peak with the TranzX throttle system which allows one to apply power any time that the pedals are applied and to get going from a dead stop. I use the gears mainly to get into a 'range' of effort needed to tackle/enjoy whatever terrain I am presented with (heck, I've got four levels of pedal assist).
I have observed that 'other' mid-drives are not necessarily this forgiving in terms of the power that is available should one be so lackadaisical in not only their (needed/constant) gear selection changes but a continual focus on the terrain/challenges which lie ahead.

I frankly don't want to work that hard, enjoy power on demand and am easily distracted by everything other than staring at the terrain in front of me or thinking about what gear I am presently in or should be.
The 'elite' MTBing establishment is hell bent presently on outlawing throttle assist at every trail that they (cough) 'own' here in the United States.

Again, I am missing something here (TranzX drives/all throttle drives are 'junk', I'm a sissy wanna-be MTB gear-grinder, etc.)...or do these drives simply 'work' outside of the current 'quality' drive design/demand mindset? I ask this because I have never witnessed a 'newb' approached/helped up here in terms of their MTB selection using the above criteria (whether Bosch, etc. are the Cadillac of all drives or not).
 
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Rusty

Member
H
To be fair, I am not a time-trial junkie nor do I have any experience whatsoever off road on bicycles of any kind. I have an IZIP Peak with the TranzX throttle system which allows one to apply power any time that the pedals are applied and to get going from a dead stop. I use the gears mainly to get into a 'range' of effort needed to tackle/enjoy whatever terrain I am presented with (heck, I've got four levels of pedal assist).
I have observed that 'other' mid-drives are not necessarily this forgiving in terms of the power that is available should one be so lackadaisical in not only their (needed/constant) gear selection changes but a continual focus on the terrain/challenges which lie ahead.

I frankly don't want to work that hard, enjoy power on demand and am easily distracted by everything other than staring at the terrain in front of me or thinking about what gear I am presently in or should be.
The 'elite' MTBing establishment is hell bent presently on outlawing throttle assist at every trail that they (cough) 'own' here in the United States.

Again, I am missing something here (TranzX drives/all throttle drives are 'junk', I'm a sissy wanna-be MTB gear-grinder, etc.)...or do these drives simply 'work' outside of the current 'quality' drive design/demand mindset? I ask this because I have never witnessed a 'newb' approached/helped up here in terms of their MTB selection using the above criteria (whether Bosch, etc. are the Cadillac of all drives or not).
Hi Dash!
On the Peak, the "throttle" after 6 mph is merely a level assist 4 switch because as you know, you still have to pedal.

I have noted from riding my Peak, just how useful this throttle assist can be: imagine a steep downhill grade, with a boulder strewn corner on the bottom, then a sharp right uphill. You are braking on the downhill to avoid crashing into the boulders, (you may even have your pedals level to avoid bashing them on the boulders) now you needle through them and you have lost your pedaling a cadence and momentum to take that immediate sharp right uphill, so on a regular MTB, you spin your wheels in a lower gear or you bog out in a higher gear and you walk.

On the Peak, you crack that throttle and you are instantly back into cadence and you take the sharp right uphill without spinning, smoothly up the hill with even less " damage" to the trail.

I ran into this exact scenario awhile back, and I can say that my Peak ran over the same trail with more finesse than my regular mountain bike. You can climb with less spinning, not more, as some apparently visualize.

The whole "issue" around throttles, or around ebike acceptance in general is just ill-conceived IMHO. E-bikes are the future, they enhance the entire bicycle experience and their use should be promoted. "Regular" bikes are neat, too, so instead of promoting division ( as you said) all bicyclists should be working together to push for access rights. It 's the only sane approach to take.

All the best-
Rusty
 
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DashRiprock

Active Member
On the Peak, the "throttle" after 6 mph is merely a level assist 4 switch because as you know, you still have to pedal.
...and oh what an 'assist' it is! :eek:
Perhaps the above is exactly what some members here fail to understand when trying to help others choose a mid-drive for an electrically driven mountain bike. For example, one certainly doesn't hear much in regards to how finicky the Bosch system apparently is in regards to proper gear selection. Apparently, this 'pleasure' (relative non-performance) has become so ingrained over time that it is now prized in evaluating the latest technology presented. Yet another comparison ignored (especially for those few already familiar with TranzX pedal assist drives) is that not only do you continually have pedal assist 4 (in any gear) when you blip or fully apply the throttle all the way up to 20 mph...but that it's a torquier boost given the nature of the gear driven mid-drive system. Unfortunately, it wouldn't take much of a skeptic to tie the lack of education in regards to this unique drive and it's striking differences to it's price or profit margin.

I'm all for working together...yet my best advice would be to make certain exactly who you are working with..first. The lack of discussion up here regarding both electric and access issues in general (two separate animals) is not an accident. Most (younger) folks have no idea whatsoever as to how issues of all kinds are purposely muddied to simply retain the status quo or frankly what to look for when this is attempted.

My hope(and obviously yours) is that 'newbies' in the (e)mountain biking market at the very least understand what an 'enhanced pedal assist switch' (throttle) actually accomplishes. If they are then able to compare same with whatever extra money they are being asked to pay for a 'quality' drive that (imo) does much less...all the better.
As for convincing ebikers to become involved in public land access issues or to directly confront those who deny them access anywhere ..whether they be their (cough) anti-ebike 'brother' in the biking community or not...the reluctance up here to even so much as discuss these issues (at all levels of involvement) pretty much speaks for itself.

Ironically, these new enthusiasts will do their homework...purchase a groundbreaking mountain bike with a great drive design...then wonder (later) where in the heck they'll ever ride it! (without being hassled). Sometimes I believe that the only 'activism' ever pushed on our younger generation was to indeed never be 'active' in the first place...lest they upset their (pre-programmed) political brethren. :rolleyes:
 

Rusty

Member
I am with ya, Dash on all counts!

Need to ride a Bosch system to see how it performs. If it is anything like my Bosch dishwasher at home, it looks nice, is expensive and complicated, and is not very powerful at all - LOL!!

That throttle assist is a great feature on the Izip Peak, thanks for making others aware of it!!
Rusty
 

DashRiprock

Active Member
Yep, I'm not Bosch basher any more than you are.
It's simply that when somebody posts a video containing a (newest generation) Bosch equipped rider going on and on as to how he darn well better select the right gear ALL the time or he's screwed in terms of power available...and nobody up here breaks right in to disagree or set him straight....I believe him. :)
 
Rusty, So true! My Bosch dishwasher is annoying weak. I would never say that to my Nordic pal who is the CEO for Bosch North America. He rips into me though all the time about saying any ebike that doesn't have a Bosch system is s**t. You should have seen him smiling and zipping around one some of my non-Bosch bike though.

Dash….just wondering what made you choose the Peak over the dash (especially consider it's cool name and all)? Just curious...
 

DashRiprock

Active Member
We went with the Dash (first) based solely on price/features (big debt to Ravi), the positive banter up here and in the middle of the sale a realization that Currie was providing service on this forum that frankly nobody else was matching anywhere else. The Peak came next for the same reasons, a spare battery without carrying one when we ride together and the mid-drive/torquier/off-road optional experience. Neither of us really prefers one over the other and at least I believe that these are the smartest value (combo) on the market right now if one takes the time to do their homework (here) and truly seeks the same varied experience.
The biggest reason that we are happy with our purchase is the people on this forum...period. :)
 

Rusty

Member
Yeah, that Bosch dishwasher is annoyingly weak huh, LOL.
Please tell your pal to develop a Bosch system for North America. 85nm of peak torque, throttle assist to 20 mph, high speed pedelec mode with no PAS assistance cut out. I bet they would sell very well! I'd be one of the first in line!!
All the best-
Rusty
 
Yeah, that Bosch dishwasher is annoyingly weak huh, LOL.
Please tell your pal to develop a Bosch system for North America. 85nm of peak torque, throttle assist to 20 mph, high speed pedelec mode with no PAS assistance cut out. I bet they would sell very well! I'd be one of the first in line!!
All the best-
Rusty

;) I'll pass along the message Rusty. Sounds like a wicked fun spec.