Trek Domane+ HP 7 vs Specialized Turbo Creo SL Carbon Comp

tbar23

Member
About a week ago, I did a short test ride on a Specialized Turbo Vado SL followed by a Creo SL Carbon Comp. I preferred the riding position of the Creo and was strongly leaning in that direction to enable a fast ~40 mile round trip commute as described: Avid cyclist looking to reduce 40 mile round trip commute
After doing more research on EBR and elsewhere, I really wanted to try a higher power motor. So I went back and took two back-to-back rides - one on a Trek Domane+ HP 7 (they didn't have the lower model) and then the Creo SL Comp Carbon.
I had mapped out an ~2.5 mile loop (including an ~55 ft / 5.5% grade) climb near the LBS and rode it twice on each bike. Unfortunately, I screwed up my Garmin's start/stop and missed a little of the first loop. I created a 1.82 mile segment on Garmin Connect to compare the four laps.
Domane: 4:05 (26.8 mph) and 4:11.6 (26.1 mph)
Creo SL: 4:41 (23.4 mph) and 4:55 (22.3 mph)

Both bikes were set to max assist and it should be noted that the Creo had just 3 bars of battery (out of 10, I think) showing when I started, dropped to 2 bars during the ride and was showing a single red bar when I got back to the LBS.
I realize that these results are not "scientific" as I wasn't measuring my own power input, but my seat-of-the-pants sense is that I was working quite a bit harder on the Creo to go slower. I knew within 0.5 mile that the Creo was the slower bike - and by quite a bit. How much of this impression had to do with the dying battery, I'm not sure.

A few other notes: I was definitely impressed by the Domane. The lockable and removable battery back is very nicely integrated into the down tube. Despite being ~10 lbs heavier (I think), the Domane didn't feel like it was that much heavier. I also liked the integrated headlight, taillight and Bosch controller.
I didn't pay huge attention to ride quality, but the Creo SL has the FutureShock front dampening while the Domane has some kind of flexible rear seat configuration for rear dampening. At ~25mph, both bikes could beat you up a bit over rough asphalt.
I'm looking for a fast commuter, and both bikes have provisions (eyelets) for fender and rack.

I will admit that I didn't want to, but I came away from the test ride very, very impressed with the Trek Domane+ HP 7.
 

Papadevo

New Member
I have seen my Creo lower its power output at around 15% battery. Not sure if there is a sort of governor on the motor at a low battery level. Only have a few hundred miles on the bike and have only run it this low twice. Anyone know this for sure?
 

Deacon Blues

Well-Known Member
If you want a fast commuter have you looked at the upcoming Watts Wagon super bike? Lots of power and it can be ordered with two batteries.


Does the Domane+HP7 come with the Bosch Gen 4 motor?
 

tbar23

Member
@Papadevo - how did you know 15% and did you know by feel or by information from a sensor?

@Deacon Blues - I looked at the Watt Wagons, and my primary concerns were: not available now, no place to locally demo and not a particularly aero position. I am used to riding with drop bars, and I'm really leaning in that direction for my commuter. That said, there are so many possible options, that it is hard to keep up with all of them. Decision overload!
 

Johnny

Well-Known Member
@Papadevo - how did you know 15% and did you know by feel or by information from a sensor?

@Deacon Blues - I looked at the Watt Wagons, and my primary concerns were: not available now, no place to locally demo and not a particularly aero position. I am used to riding with drop bars, and I'm really leaning in that direction for my commuter. That said, there are so many possible options, that it is hard to keep up with all of them. Decision overload!

You don't need aero position when you are riding with a powerful mid drive. If your objective is commuting a comfortable position with a powerful mid drive will be a great setup. There are lot's of options with bosch mid gen 4 drives(removable battery is standard bosch setup) try them out. For specialized take a look at turbo Vado's too. Take them to the same route and see how comfortable, fast you are. If you want the shortest commute time you should also take a look at Stromer.
 

tbar23

Member
@Johnny I road a Vado and Creo SL back-to-back and definitely preferred the position of the Creo. I hear what you are saying, but at 25mph, an upright position requires an additional 50 - 75W on a flat road. That‘s an extra 50 - 75Wh of battery required (per leg) for my commute. Add in a little rolling landscape and those figures climb as additional power is required to compensate for the additional battery weight required for the additional drag.
I understand that there are a slew of powerful bikes out there, and I owe it to myself to try a Stromer before plunking down cash on a Domane, but I’m just not as comfortable in an upright position and the laws of physics like it better when I’m on the drops, too ;)
 

WattsUpDude

Active Member
I think you should try the Creo SL again at full charge. Voltage sag in lithium batteries play a big role when it comes to performance.
 

Captain Slow

Well-Known Member
I would go for the Domane HP. I agree that with a full battery the Creo will likely perform better, but at the end of the day the Domane has a more powerful motor with a lot more battery capacity if you add the 2nd battery.

Remember that if you use the bike as a regular commuter, after a couple of years of use and hundreds of charge cycles that battery capacity will diminish and that's when you'll see even more benefit from getting a Domane.
 

Johnny

Well-Known Member
@Johnny I road a Vado and Creo SL back-to-back and definitely preferred the position of the Creo. I hear what you are saying, but at 25mph, an upright position requires an additional 50 - 75W on a flat road. That‘s an extra 50 - 75Wh of battery required (per leg) for my commute. Add in a little rolling landscape and those figures climb as additional power is required to compensate for the additional battery weight required for the additional drag.
I understand that there are a slew of powerful bikes out there, and I owe it to myself to try a Stromer before plunking down cash on a Domane, but I’m just not as comfortable in an upright position and the laws of physics like it better when I’m on the drops, too ;)

If you like drops and feel comfortable then I think your choice is clear.

Which Vado did you ride? Turbo Vado or the SL version?

I am well aware of the laws of physics, 75w seems about right for flats around 25mph. The thing is for ebikes you need to take into account losses other components too. Efficiency of these motors change significantly depending on the their power output. For example Creo's motor may be very efficient at 150W output but when you push it to 250W constantly it may not be. When you peak these motors their efficiency take a big hit.

If you like drops you will probably increase your range by 10 miles per charge(500wh battery) compared to an upright bike with wider tires(depending on how much power you want to put in yourself) while riding > 25mph. Still with 500WH battery your 40 mile commute is a stretch. I would go for a second battery if you are going with Domane.


IMO This increase in range will come at the expense of a very harsh ride at 25mph+. I also think commuting at those speeds on drops is not very safe since it is hard to see what is going on around you. So it is a compromise. I totally understand your point of view, trying to reduce the losses as much as possible, but the assistance of a motor is much more than you think and most of the time makes these losses much less significant so you have room for improving comfort, safety etc. Again this is my personal opinion.


On a side note you can record your trips with kiox and see a detailed chart showing rider's power output separately.
 

drodg

Member
I am so glad you took the time to write this. There are virtually no Domane HP around me to test ride. Weirdly I have had the chance to test two different Domane LT's. Thanks
 

tbar23

Member
I am so glad you took the time to write this. There are virtually no Domane HP around me to test ride. Weirdly I have had the chance to test two different Domane LT's. Thanks

@drodg - let me know if you have any specific questions, and I can try to answer to the best of my recollection / impression.
 

Papadevo

New Member
@Papadevo - how did you know 15% and did you know by feel or by information from a sensor?

@Deacon Blues - I looked at the Watt Wagons, and my primary concerns were: not available now, no place to locally demo and not a particularly aero position. I am used to riding with drop bars, and I'm really leaning in that direction for my commuter. That said, there are so many possible options, that it is hard to keep up with all of them. Decision overload!
Got that from the From the Specialized app. JRA and noticed a drop in power. Had the bike on turbo (100%/100%) and you feel it when it goes from 295 to 150 or so. Super windy day, and around 95 degrees Fahrenheit.

My best advice for you tbar is to buy the one you like with these factors in order of importance for a 40 mile commute:
1. Fit. Basic fit should always be first. If you have to modify with parts swaps that’s ok, but be careful of getting too extreme. Doing too many modifications will change #2.
2. Feel. How does it ride? This too can be adjusted so be aware of things like tire choice, but what is the designers intent? Getting too far from that effects #3... (think fat bike with skinny road racing tires)
3. Look. Do you like it? Does it look cool? Remember the best bike is the one you use...
4. Electric power details (watts, volts, etc). You can always add a battery or leave a charger at the office to charge while you are employed. Park it in the cubicle. Free electric is always nice.

Fit is so important because of how much time you will be on it during your ride. An hour or so twice a day in an uncomfortable position can cause serious problems over time. The right fit makes you stronger.
 

Ezliven

New Member
Before I bought my first ebike I had narrowed it down to the Creo but at the last minute I decided since I was going to spend this kind of money I should go ahead and at least try the Damone+ HP7 of which I did. I tried the Damone first and really liked it. A few days later I tried the Creo. I rode both bike on the same 60 mile course with 1800 ft. elevation climbing. Even though I was leaning towards the Creo because it was lighter I really liked the Damone better. The Creo didn't have as much power on the climbs and required riding at a higher cadence than I could maintain for any extended time. Maybe would have been OK for a younger and more fit rider but at 66 I couldn't. I bought the Damone+ HP7 and have ridden it on 4 fast 60 mile group rides with 1800 to 2500 ft. climbing with my regular riding buddies who are 5 to 15 yr. younger and had 50% battery left. This past weekend we rode 80 miles with with 3,000 ft. elevation in four hrs. and I used all the battery because it was very hot & humid and more hills with more assist. Before the Domane I could not have done these rides but now i can do these hard fast rides & not be totally exhausted. A lot more fun. I am very happy with the Domane+ HP7.
 

tegnamo

Member
You don't need aero position when you are riding with a powerful mid drive. If your objective is commuting a comfortable position with a powerful mid drive will be a great setup. There are lot's of options with bosch mid gen 4 drives(removable battery is standard bosch setup) try them out. For specialized take a look at turbo Vado's too. Take them to the same route and see how comfortable, fast you are. If you want the shortest commute time you should also take a look at Stromer.
You save quite a few watts from more aero and can also put out more of your own power when you're in a drop-bar position, so it does help increase the range!
 

Stiksandstones

New Member
I owned a Cre0, now own a Domane + HP, they are two different bikes-for what I am doing, the Domane is better for me, but that same SL platform motor on my LEVO SL is fantastic, love it. Different tools for different jobs I'd say...and different price points.