Trek Domane +HP Power Usage By the Numbers: Longer Distance Ride

Lefkop

New Member
Yesterday I did a 41.37 mile ride and retuned home with 37% battery life, sounds good and I wanted to share the numbers so you can get a real world look at the bike and its usage by the numbers. The BOSCH estimates are based on mountain terrain, 195 lbs for bike and rider, cadence of 90, good weather, light breeze, 19 MPH. My region is quite hilly but no especially long mountain uphills.

Battery 500 Whr
Distance 41.37
Elevation 2893 ft
Cadence 91 RPM
Power Self/Motor 50/50
Battery Remaining 37%
Battery usage Information:
Usage Type (turbo was not used)Percent of Time UsedMilesWH/MileBosch Estimates WH/Mile // estimated miles
off3112.82310-
eco3213.2412.0857.46 WH/M // 67 miles (I believe this to be an inaccurate representation of mountain riding from BOSCH's range calculator)
tour3414.065812.09117.24 WH/M // 29 miles
Sport31.241112.08620.83 WH/M // 22 miles
Average WH 12.0856

Battery UsageWH used (rounded off)
Off0
ECO160
Tour170
Sport15
Actual used WH 345



Battery was in operation for 28.5469 Miles and returned home with 37% Kiox
Calculated usage and WH left at end of ride based on 500 WH battery x 37% = total usage of 315 WH and returns home with 185 WH
Actual WH usage 345, returned home with 155 WH
Problem: There is 8.7% (round up to 9) or 30 WH discrepancy in expected vs recorded trip. 30 WH will return close to 2.5 miles at this usage (12.0856) which is to me ....significant.

Why share this usage data? Because you will want to know if there is a battery cell issue when you get an e-bike. The results shown here demonstrate a potential issue with the battery having 470 WH capacity not 500 WH. I did use the integrated lights and there is expected loss from the battery but 9% of WH seems like its too high based on stock LED light power usage. I have also found but I believe is a normal function that the battery will charge to 98% at times rather than 100% to perseve battery function. 98% of battery charge returns 490 WR and on the conditions above would yield a total milage of about 40.5 miles.

I have returned the bike to Trek this morning for a diagnostic on the battery as I have had it for approximately 3 weeks. I should hope there is not a 9% drop in WH during this short period of time. Trek has been quite good with performing work on the bike to date and I should hopefully hear back soon as to the battery status. Has anyone else seen a marked discrepancy in stated battery capacity and real use capacity?

Thanks for reading,

PS

I did discuss my findings briefly to the bike tech at Trek in Westlake village CA, however it seemed that this was beyond his ability to understand and hence the technician when addressing the question of the missing WH, he simply stated all depends on how you are riding, which is true and for which I provided the data for at each level of the ride and WH utilized. The technicians go by what their computer shows them and I like all customers do not have access to what is demonstrated. I was hoping for a print out of full battery charge and the WH that is being held. But no that was not offered nor given. The Tech did suggest speaking with Bosch directly, to which I replied nicely that I purchased the bike from them as a unit from Trek, under a Trek Warranty, and to separate responsibility of battery - motor to another company, if the battery is under performing than it would necessitate the return of the bike under the 30 day satisfaction guarantee. After all It is a $7000 dollar bike plus taxes and it should perform flawlessly to spec. I have had the bike in for 4 issues, the day I purchased the derailleur was no positioned correctly causing gear and chain slippage - chain would fall off bike -easy adjustment; However more involved was issues of the bike shutting down going over small bumps (intermittently), that required 3 visits to shop to repair and eventually they had to re-align the battery, and finally this visit for an inquiry and testing of battery. The Trek Techs have had to perform at least 4 software upgrades since purchasing the bike including today. To that end on a longer rides this week I will re- analyze the results, as one single sample is not enough data go by. Trek has been responsive and offering great customer service overall. They have addressed most issues to day and I still find this bike simply incredible, a try joy to ride.
 
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Stiksandstones

New Member
I think my battery could have issue, I do my
Work ride of 27 miles each way, 700ft elevation each way, rarely use turbo, and I’m 0% when I do the 27miles, have to ride with my charger to work.
 

Lefkop

New Member
I think my battery could have issue, I do my
Work ride of 27 miles each way, 700ft elevation each way, rarely use turbo, and I’m 0% when I do the 27miles, have to ride with my charger to work.

Take a look at your speed, terrain and overall weight. Going faster does have a big cost in battery life. There is a significant jump from eco to tour mode, less so with tour to sport. In sport mode (mountainous regions, whatever that means actually in terms of hill grade Bosch doesn’t state) Bosch is reporting 22 Wh per mile at 19mph, It sounds like your peddling in sport mode at about 17-19 mph. If your in around 200 lbs, bike + yourself, 18 mph in sport mode on “mountain terrain” then 27 miles to empty is about what Bosch predicts. If you have some time you can measure the usage and determine if the battery is within spec. Also as we use our batteries over a greater period of time, they will deteriorate until they need eventual replacing. I’m going to continue to monitor my results. Trek updated some software this afternoon, reported everything was in specifications.
 

Stiksandstones

New Member
I’m 145lbs. Looking at last ride 19.4mph was that ride average, I don’t see whour rating? But that ride was 27 miles, 19avg, and i began in 100% battery, ended with zero, which is common for that ride.
 

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tegnamo

Member
You're not going to get the entire 500Wh from the battery. It never drains fully because it would damage the battery. Is that one component of the discrepancy you think?
 

Johnny

Well-Known Member
Yesterday I did a 41.37 mile ride and retuned home with 37% battery life, sounds good and I wanted to share the numbers so you can get a real world look at the bike and its usage by the numbers. The BOSCH estimates are based on mountain terrain, 195 lbs for bike and rider, cadence of 90, good weather, light breeze, 19 MPH. My region is quite hilly but no especially long mountain uphills.

Battery 500 Whr
Distance 41.37
Elevation 2893 ft
Cadence 91 RPM
Power Self/Motor 50/50
Battery Remaining 37%
Battery usage Information:
Usage Type (turbo was not used)Percent of Time UsedMilesWH/MileBosch Estimates WH/Mile // estimated miles
off3112.82310-
eco3213.2412.0857.46 WH/M // 67 miles (I believe this to be an inaccurate representation of mountain riding from BOSCH's range calculator)
tour3414.065812.09117.24 WH/M // 29 miles
Sport31.241112.08620.83 WH/M // 22 miles
Average WH 12.0856

Battery UsageWH used (rounded off)
Off0
ECO160
Tour170
Sport15
Actual used WH 345



Battery was in operation for 28.5469 Miles and returned home with 37% Kiox
Calculated usage and WH left at end of ride based on 500 WH battery x 37% = total usage of 315 WH and returns home with 185 WH
Actual WH usage 345, returned home with 155 WH
Problem: There is 8.7% (round up to 9) or 30 WH discrepancy in expected vs recorded trip. 30 WH will return close to 2.5 miles at this usage (12.0856) which is to me ....significant.


Let me sum it up,

1. Battery gauges are not perfectly accurate. The remaining capacity of %37 is an estimate.

2. As others have stated the capacity of the Bosch 500 is actually more in the 480wh range.

3. Battery efficiency will change depending on riding conditions, temperature etc. Expect less on cold days or if you are pushing it too much and higher assist levels.


In short what you are experiencing is well within the margin of error. Your battery seems to be fine and the range you are getting is expected.


After all It is a $7000 dollar bike plus taxes and it should perform flawlessly to spec.

It seems to be performing according to spec though the specs are a bit ambiguous.

On the other hand your bike uses exact the same motor/battery that can be found in a $3K+ ebike or any other bike that uses the bosch speed motor with 500 pack. It is just like other bike components like a shimano derailleur or a Rockshox suspension fork. Trek just puts it on their frame. So don't expect motor/battery to be any better than another bike with the same system even if the bike itself costs less than half of what you have paid.
 

Lefkop

New Member
Let me sum it up,

1. Battery gauges are not perfectly accurate. The remaining capacity of %37 is an estimate.

2. As others have stated the capacity of the Bosch 500 is actually more in the 480wh range.

3. Battery efficiency will change depending on riding conditions, temperature etc. Expect less on cold days or if you are pushing it too much and higher assist levels.


In short what you are experiencing is well within the margin of error. Your battery seems to be fine and the range you are getting is expected.




It seems to be performing according to spec though the specs are a bit ambiguous.

On the other hand your bike uses exact the same motor/battery that can be found in a $3K+ ebike or any other bike that uses the bosch speed motor with 500 pack. It is just like other bike components like a shimano derailleur or a Rockshox suspension fork. Trek just puts it on their frame. So don't expect motor/battery to be any better than another bike with the same system even if the bike itself costs less than half of what you have paid.
very very appreciated thank you so much for the info. Trek has said Bosch did a lot of tuning with this bike, more so than any other fwiw. I will enjoy this bike for quite a while I’m sure, It gives my a great joy to ride. I’ll probably get the range extender with a month or so. Again Thanks for the info
 

Johnny

Well-Known Member
very very appreciated thank you so much for the info. Trek has said Bosch did a lot of tuning with this bike, more so than any other fwiw. I will enjoy this bike for quite a while I’m sure, It gives my a great joy to ride. I’ll probably get the range extender with a month or so. Again Thanks for the info

It is a beautiful bike and should be very fun to ride even with assist off.

And in the future if you feel like extending your rides even further you can go for a second battery.

Enjoy your ride.
 
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Lefkop

New Member
HI everyone so here is an update on some rides, I did rides in the last two days that where both about 52 miles in my area. Both rides had around 3400 -3500 feet of climbing, Both rides had identical speeds of 18.3 miles an hour. Both shared 33% of the time the bike Assist was turned off. The routes were not identical btw but terrain is similar in that its pretty hilly around here as you can tell by the elevation achieved. Today’s ride had an average user input 137 watts where as yesterday was 149 watts. The last few miles today where defiantly uphill and I used sport mode for about 1.5 total miles (But not in one place)

At the completion of the ride there was 18 percent power left, leaving 86.76 watt hours in the battery. In this mixed use there would be about a 8.93 miles left of assist available and predication of range would be +- about 60 miles.

From the Bike Computer battery usage (disregarding when bike was off)
Assistance Level. Assistance Mode Use. Distance Travelled WH*PRation WH/Mile (With ratio correction)
Off. 33 %. 17. 0
Eco 45 %. 23.4. 260 11.11
Tour. 18 %. 9.36. 97. 10.36
Sport 4%. 2.08. 22. 11

Power output 53/47 (human/motor) - ratio of 1.12 (PRatio)
The Average 11 WH per mile in this mixed use, Which would enable the powered assistance to range to just under 43.81 - lets call it 44 miles at an average of 18 mph - if the bike were on the entire distance

To achieve better range for longer rides it is of course obvious, you have to slow down the use of the pedal assist and use a mindset of conservation. During down grades and flats the bike is pretty quick and often requires little help or assistance to maintain speed. For uphills or steeper sections, the use or tour mode usually suffices. You can definitely sprint up the hills with sport or turbo but we all know this will eat the battery quickly diminishing range.

Another nice tactic to use for hills; Just a allow for short bursts of greater power on the discret sections of steepness than back it off because eco or tour will help maintain speed with your cadence and power. I am very thankful to the group for helping me out understanding that the battery is 482 WH. I suspect as I get better leg strength and endurance over time that I can improve the WH usage. Its good to know that you can get a great deal of distance from this bike even with a lot of elevation changes and to understand how to eek out the longest ride you can. I will at some point soon get the range extender to I can it make up an over and back again the mountain range that separates where I live and the Pacific Ocean while still havIng a nice 10-13 mph going over the mountains.
 

gringo

Member
I like the detailed analysis you provide. Nice assessment!

One of the nice features of the gen 4 Bosch performance line motors is that there is no perceivable drag when pedaling unpowered.

I took a ~ 30 mile ride a couple of weeks ago just for fun without turning on power on my Allant (same motor as the Domane +HP, but about 13 pounds heavier than the +HP). It was quite enjoyable and felt like riding a normal analog bike (albeit a heavy normal analog bike). Granted that ride was mostly flat, but even on the few hills it rode fine (but slower and less enjoyable than blasting up in turbo). I used very few Wh on that 30 mile ride. I had the lights and display on so it wasn't zero, but I could have turned those off and had infinite mileage per Wh and a range that is only limited by how long you can ride before you need to eat more calories.

The Domane +HP weighs only a few pounds more than my old steel touring bike. And I rode that bike thousands of miles with plenty of steep hills without turning on power.

The gen 4 motor is a lot of fun! And if you ever want to conserve battery you always have the option of turning it off and it still rides like a nice bike.
 
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TomWilcox

Member
I have had my Domane+ about 18 months now.

1) Back brake slight rubbing when I got it. Trek said the calipers will "settle in" eventually. It's better now, but still happens occasionally.
2) Bike will shut down if you go over "braille bumps" on the side of some roads. I suspect that the battery gets shaken and the terminals disconnect momentarily.
3) Never had any battery issues, but I keep my battery inside my house during the heat of summer and cold of winter. Having owned a Tesla, I'm battery friendly. I fully expect that the battery management software will vary the maximum and minimum percentage charge slightly according to battery life, charging speed, temperature, "battery memory" and all sorts of other variables.
4) Replaced the original "gravel" tires and rims with Aeolus Pro 3V TLR Disc Road 700x28 Wheels. Bike performs much, much better now. Bike store said they had to "reprogram" the computer for these wheels. Different tire + rim diameter?
5) Bike store said there would be no problem replacing a 46T front chain ring with a 50. Bosch said it can't be done. Computer software wouldn't allow it.

Bottom line:
1)Trek make good high volume production bikes. But even if you buy a very expensive Trek, the fit and finish is not going to be the same as buying a high end bike for the same price. Just because you bought a Toyota with all of the options, it won't be the same as an equally priced Mercedes.
2) I have been impressed with my calls to Bosch. Although I agree that if Trek subcontracts with Bosch for components that Trek should be able to answer in depth questions, your local bike store sales kid just simply isn't going to know. Call Bosch directly.
3) I love my trek/Bosch bike. Way ahead of the game compared to specialized and Fazua alternatives.