Well you'll hear it one more time from me too. In my area, a tourist beach community, the real danger on the multi-use coastal trail is the analog commuters hauling ass to their hospitality service job. I totally understand the loss of patience with shambolic tourists who suddenly lurch in new directions like a zombie who catches a sudden whiff of brains. I solve that with a 'HEY PAY ATTENTION' pitched to cut thru brain fog, but most commuters simply accelerate and weave, with the apparent intention being to teach the dumbass a lesson. It doesn't work.That’s what I hear from every multi use path everywhere I go. The Tour De France wannabes are a safety issue EVERYWHERE.
exactly. All the 'does she or doesn't she' hand wringing has a very limited shelf life. You can't shout at the waves and stop them from crashing on the beach. At the Grand Canyon ebikes easily exceeded the analogs and nobody cared. Nobody was going fast because we were all enjoying the scenery.The number of ebikes we encountered on the trails exceeded acoustic bikes. Tough to reverse that trend.
Remember that the State left a carve out allowing local govt to regulate E Bike use on multi use paths. They naturally assumed that the local govt would base any regulation on factual evidence such as a study.Check out this website and video. https://www.arizonabikerides.com/rides/586/the-loop-bike-ride-tucson/
The DOT Program Administrator specifically says, “…if it does not have an engine on it, it can be ridden [on the loop].”
The key word being “engine.” We should hope that definition applies to all Pima County and other AZ multi-use paths.
We rode >1,000 miles of Maricopa and Pima County paths on ebikes this past Winter. The number of ebikes we encountered on the trails exceeded acoustic bikes. Tough to reverse that trend.
I had a documented call with the CPSC on the "low speed electric bicycle" (LSEB) defined by federal bill HR727 (passed 1 vote short of congressional consensus which are ALL state representatives). During that call they made it crystal clear that they view LSEBs and the ebikes defined by 3-class legislation as two different products (this gets them out of having to engage on what would be an obvious interstate commerce decision). Compliant LSEBs are same as a bike so if the states just stuck to "use" regulation then there would be no conflict of use of LSEBs on the Loop.I hope they do issue the ticket based on a rule. It would force the issue.
Yes. Speed limits on MUPs makes far better sense than legislating assist cut-offs on the product itself but you have to remember the auto industry didn't want ebikes to get too many people out of cars, so neutering them to 15mph was put in place in Europe. That is exactly what People for Bikes would have pushed for in the US (to have greater harmonization) but they were aware of HR727 allowed 750W motor rating and "power limiting" at 20mph, so limiting to anything slower than 20mph would have problematic for them regardless of lobby money funds.Sorry for this but I will cross post one last point. Many other major MUPs allow ebikes. For example, the Monon Trail in and around Indianapolis. They even promote it by allowing ebike rental info on their website. Bigger city...more users and yet....safe. But they do have a speed limit and it gets enforced. Roadies don't like that. So why not benchmark other successful programs? Or be the lone holdout citing safety with no studies or solid arguement. Just my .02 and I have yet to be on the loop with an ebike.
i suppose there’s some observational bias here, since i like to ride road bikes and generally do so in the 15-20mph range, but in 8,000 miles of riding last year and this, plus walking with my family all over the place every day, i have NEVER had my safety threatened by a “tour de france wannabe.”That’s what I hear from every multi use path everywhere I go. The Tour De France wannabes are a safety issue EVERYWHERE.
i suppose there’s some observational bias here, since i like to ride road bikes and generally do so in the 15-20mph range, but in 8,000 miles of riding last year and this, plus walking with my family all over the place every day, i have NEVER had my safety threatened by a “tour de france wannabe.”
never. i see people riding fast, in groups and solo, and sometimes i’m going faster than them and sometimes slower, but the times i’ve had to make an emergency stop, swerve, or almost crashed/been hit can be roughly categorized as follows:
15% unskilled cyclists on rented bikes, ebikes, etc on MUPs
15% pedestrians behaving unpredictably on MUPs
15% dogs behaving like dogs on MUPs
45% cars turning in front of me without signaling,
5% “bikes” which are too large for the infrastructure they’re using, either by length, weight, or width
5% me being an inexperienced idiot, wet roads etc
perhaps people simply assume anyone riding fast on a road bike in lycra is “dangerous.” in my experience those people are primarily on roads, not MUPs, and when they are on MUPs, they’re quite focused and controlled.
Sadly that is exactly how "legal professional" bureaucrats make most decisions. They know study data is unlikely to support their position so they avoid studies and just wing it.Remember that the State left a carve out allowing local govt to regulate E Bike use on multi use paths. They naturally assumed that the local govt would base any regulation on factual evidence such as a study.
Pima County Parks dept placed a blanket ban on any motorized vehicle which would include Pedal Assisted Bikes as well as electric wheelchairs and mobility scooters. They did make an exception for ADA mobility devices as long as they carry documentation with them PROVING that they need the device. That is a violation of Federal Law. You cannot require people to document their disability, if they make a verbal statement that they need the device it must be accepted as credible assurance.
The County of Pima claims they banned E Bikes for safety reasons but never actually did any safety study concluding that they posed any risk not posed by regular bikes.
In fact the notes from the loop advisory committee show that the blanket ban was done because if they allowed E Bikes they would have to decide individually on other E devices like Segways etc and that would be a lot of work.
Basically the ban was for the County’s convenience NOT for safety reasons.
I don't think anyone is arguing against rational speed bike/ebike speed limits on MUPs. What the debate is about is should ebikes have assist speed limits such that some feel that effectively ensures they never speed on a MUP. If you believe there should be an assist speed cutoff then you probably believe it should be 15mph so all MUPs will be safer.Let me be clear I do not care AT ALL how fast road bikers are on the roads, in fact agree with them going as fast possible to keep up with traffic for safety
MUP are a completely different thing and I think the speed limit on any I have ridden on should be 15mph and enforced
I don’t care how good a rider a person thinks they are- all those other things on your list
Dogs acting dogs
People walking and not paying attention etc are every hour occurrences on MUP when I ride
IMO I am responsible for realizing I am going faster than they are and slow down way in advance
Yes they should not walk in front of me unexpectedly but it happens all the time
So a road biker going 25-30mph through there is not going to be able to get stopped
The loop in a lot of sections is blind curves , some of it is not but a lot is and those guys fly through there
Dangerous no matter what