Turbo Levo v Hydra

ElevenAD

Well-Known Member
Just request your bike be legal, its just got to limit watts and mph. Makes motor a bit overkill but whatever.
Totally agree! Why even deal with a motor as heavy and bulky as an M625 if your not going to take advantage of the power!
 

Nomad

Active Member
Just request your bike be legal, its just got to limit watts and mph. Makes motor a bit overkill but whatever.
so this is what I'm trying to get to is it really just a question of programming and it makes it legal not about being scared of getting caught as one reader suggest and also comparing apples to apples. I could just buy a electric motor cycle lol! Enjoy your ride folk just be aware of what your riding:)
 

TomD

Well-Known Member
Totally agree! Why even deal with a motor as heavy and bulky as an M625 if your not going to take advantage of the power!
I'm not sure why you can't take advantage of the power and still be legal. Even at 750W nominal that's 2-3x the power of a 250-350W nominal euro spec.

There might be better options (M600) for those that want more power than euro spec without the motor weight of the Ultra but not so easy to tune the M600.
 

ElevenAD

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure why you can't take advantage of the power and still be legal. Even at 750W nominal that's 2-3x the power of a 250-350W nominal euro spec.

There might be better options (M600) for those that want more power than euro spec without the motor weight of the Ultra but not so easy to tune the M600.
On paper its maybe 2-3x more but the difference between a 750watt Ultra and a Levo would be minimal, im pretty sure something like aTurbo Levo peaks at over or near 750watts.
 
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bexamous

New Member
Region
USA
Peak power is also kinda wonky unless everyone defines the term in the exact same way. FWIW Turbo Levo:

> Levo delivers an unmatched combination of usable power and refined delivery, with 565 watts of peak power and 90 Nm of torque.

But even with them saying that, who knows exactly how they define peak power.
 

TomD

Well-Known Member
On paper its maybe 2-3x more but the difference between a 750watt Ultra and a Levo would be minimal, im pretty sure something like aTurbo Levo peaks at over or near 750watts.
And a 750W nominal Ultra peaks at more than double that.
 

Jon A

Member
Region
USA
On paper its maybe 2-3x more but the difference between a 750watt Ultra and a Levo would be minimal, im pretty sure something like aTurbo Levo peaks at over or near 750watts.
Some hill climb results--the stock Ultra leaves the Turbo Levo Kenevo in the dust:

HillClimbResults.png



 

TomD

Well-Known Member
Legally complaint would be restricting to 750W nominal not 750W peak. For 750W nominal you would limit current to 25A instead of 30A.

See here: https://support.biktrix.com/hc/en-u...71-Stock-Ultra-settings-and-Programming-guide

Limited Current(A): 30A for 1000W, 25A for 750W, 20A for 500W.

I'm pretty sure even at 750W nominal you'll have at least double the power of a euro-spec, because again, we are comparing nominal, not peak. And it's not just about watts, but torque.
 

Jon A

Member
Region
USA
Yeah thats cool but thats not my point, thats a stock Ultra, its not restricted to 750watts.
You're correct, but 20 seconds in a 1 minute race indicates a massive, massive, power disparity. If you really think trimming the Ultra's power by 250W is going to slow it down anywhere close to 20 seconds, you're dreamin'. I'm not sure why you'd think a motor with more than double the power (even in 750W nominal form) wouldn't be dramatically faster. What makes you think that?
 

ElevenAD

Well-Known Member
You're correct, but 20 seconds in a 1 minute race indicates a massive, massive, power disparity. If you really think trimming the Ultra's power by 250W is going to slow it down anywhere close to 20 seconds, you're dreamin'. I'm not sure why you'd think a motor with more than double the power (even in 750W nominal form) wouldn't be dramatically faster. What makes you think that?
I never once mentioned 750 watt"nominal", i said 750watts because thats what i meant.
 

ElevenAD

Well-Known Member
Legally complaint would be restricting to 750W nominal not 750W peak. For 750W nominal you would limit current to 25A instead of 30A.

See here: https://support.biktrix.com/hc/en-u...71-Stock-Ultra-settings-and-Programming-guide

Limited Current(A): 30A for 1000W, 25A for 750W, 20A for 500W.

I'm pretty sure even at 750W nominal you'll have at least double the power of a euro-spec, because again, we are comparing nominal, not peak. And it's not just about watts, but torque.
I meant 750 peak but even that was a hypothetical because i dont think i will matter legally, setting a Ultra 750 nominal is still going to blast to nearly 1500watts the second you hit the throttle, thats well over the legal one HP limit in the US, if you think thats legal good luck in court!
Same with any type of settings restriction, if the bike owner has open access to change whatever they want then its going to be very shaky in court. Imo that crap is not going to hold up even if you restrict a bike to 200watts. I dont care what BS bike companies are trying to sell me,"oh no Judge when i ran him over my bike was totally legal, there is no way it can exceed legal limits unless i just adjust these settings....which i would never do, scouts honor!

All i said was that 750watt Ultra would not be much different than a Levo. I did not say 750watt "nominal" so all you butthurt Sondors owners can just calm down lol.
 
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Jon A

Member
Region
USA
I never once mentioned 750 watt"nominal", i said 750watts because thats what i meant.
But why would you mean that? You do realize virtually every law in every country in the world that has any such laws are based upon nominal ratings by the manufacturer, not peak power, don't you? And yes, manufacturers (including the high end ones) play a bit fast and loose with the definition...which is why "250 Watt Nominal" bikes can put out 300, 400, 500+ peak power.

setting a Ultra 750 nominal is still going to blast to nearly 1500watts the second you hit the throttle, thats well over the legal one HP limit in the US, if you think thats legal good luck in court!
No, actually it won't. It appears you're quite out of your depth.

I did not say 750watt "nominal" so all you butthurt Sondors owners can just calm down lol.
And it appears you don't realize what forum you're in.

Have a nice night, Karen.
 

ElevenAD

Well-Known Member
But why would you mean that? You do realize virtually every law in every country in the world that has any such laws are based upon nominal ratings by the manufacturer, not peak power, don't you? And yes, manufacturers (including the high end ones) play a bit fast and loose with the definition...which is why "250 Watt Nominal" bikes can put out 300, 400, 500+ peak power.


No, actually it won't. It appears you're quite out of your depth.


And it appears you don't realize what forum you're in.

Have a nice night, Karen.


My original comment really had nothing to do with legality but performance, go back a re read! I also have no clue what your even mumbling about above. Law is pretty simple if you can read and if you think just having a 750watt nominal motor makes your bike legal again good luck, there are horsepower and speed restrictions that go along with the wattage restrictions, there are 750watt nominal motors that peak well over 1000watts and over 1hp so is that legal? Maybe you should read up on how HP is measured and read up on the law while your at it.

..have a nice day, Beth.
 
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TomD

Well-Known Member
I meant 750 peak but even that was a hypothetical because i dont think i will matter legally, setting a Ultra 750 nominal is still going to blast to nearly 1500watts the second you hit the throttle, thats well over the legal one HP limit in the US, if you think thats legal good luck in court!
Same with any type of settings restriction, if the bike owner has open access to change whatever they want then its going to be very shaky in court. Imo that crap is not going to hold up even if you restrict a bike to 200watts. I dont care what BS bike companies are trying to sell me,"oh no Judge when i ran him over my bike was totally legal, there is no way it can exceed legal limits unless i just adjust these settings....which i would never do, scouts honor!

All i said was that 750watt Ultra would not be much different than a Levo. I did not say 750watt "nominal" so all you butthurt Sondors owners can just calm down lol.
By the same logic every 500W or 750W nominal bike with throttle in the US would be illegal unless throttle is restricted to 750W peak. AFAIK the nominal rating of the motor is what matters. In the programming you can restrict throttle to 750W peak if you want. That's how all WW bikes are programmed by default to preserve drivetrain and for warranty reasons, not for regulatory reasons. But regardless what you do to throttle the bike is still going to have oodles more power than a euro spec motor, even at the 750W nominal rating.

Edit: if you are just saying the legal limit is 750W peak power, then sure, Ultra (or any other motor for that matter) wouldn't offer a significant benefit when limited to 750W peak vs. a euro-spec that might peak at similar value.
 
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ElevenAD

Well-Known Member
Edit: if you are just saying the legal limit is 750W peak power, then sure, Ultra (or any other motor for that matter) wouldn't offer a significant benefit when limited to 750W peak vs. a euro-spec that might peak at similar value.
Law is 750watts, one horse power so i would think that a 750watt motor that peeks at between 800 and 1000watts would be legal. These motors peeking at 1200/1300watts are over one HP. All im saying is if you limit an Ultra to be "legal" it will not be a huge difference from something like a Levo thats peeks at a little over 800watts and is much lighter and is for sure legal in the US. Im not knocking Ultras or Hydras, i have an Ultra and i want a Hydra but someone asked if they were legal and i dont think they are and i think buying a Hydra to tune down and try and make legal defeats the purpose of buying a Hydra, you could just go buy a Euro spec bike with similar performance that is 100% legal. Keep in mind my advice was directed to someone who asked if the Hydra was legal enough to be dropped off to the feds and i stand by my advice. Personally i could not care less and i would ride the heck out of a Hydra!
 
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TomD

Well-Known Member
Now you are just arguing out of both sides of your mouth. If you are saying it's peak, good luck with your claim that 1000W would be legal in your hypothetical court case. Many sellers of the Ultra will tune it to 750W nominal which is done by limiting amps. See biktrix link upthrad.
 

ElevenAD

Well-Known Member
Now you are just arguing out of both sides of your mouth. If you are saying it's peak, good luck with your claim that 1000W would be legal in your hypothetical court case. Many sellers of the Ultra will tune it to 750W nominal which is done by limiting amps. See biktrix link upthrad.
Im saying what i just said, a 750watt nominal motor that peaks at under 1000watts produces one HP or less and would be legal vs a 750 watt nominal motor that peaks at 1200watt which is over One horse power and not legal.
 

ElevenAD

Well-Known Member
Now you are just arguing out of both sides of your mouth. If you are saying it's peak, good luck with your claim that 1000W would be legal in your hypothetical court case. Many sellers of the Ultra will tune it to 750W nominal which is done by limiting amps. See biktrix link upthrad.
Im not arguing out of either side of my mouth your just confused.