Unbranded E-Bike Manufacture

FIDI_G

New Member
Region
USA
I have built several off road e-mountain bikes over the years but the one thing they have in common is they still look like DIY kits. The new e-mountain bikes are fully integrated they just look awesome and IMO just next level compared to a DIY's type bike. Sure my BBSHD DIY kit performs well and the cost savings are there compared to a store bought "real e-mountain bike" but it's like buying / building a kit car. You can always tell a kit car from a manufacture built car. The idea is to buy directly from the manufacture that makes the ebikes for other big manufactures like a Specialized, Trek, Giant, SantaCruz, etc. The question is does anyone know of a manufacture in China or Taiwan that builds ebikes for Trek or any of the other big brands? Secondly does anyone know if they sell to the public direct from the manufacture? I'd like to buy direct.

Note: I dont want to spec a bike from scratch but wouldn't be opposed to assembling one if all the CORRECT matching components are part of the kit.

I've looked at Alibaba and only see lower end bikes. I did find Frey which carry nice e-bikes with better components like sram / rockshock / fox BUT they look like a startup and look like a new e-bike company. Not what I'm looking for. Want to take advantage of a proven build and manufacture that's been doing this for other companies.

Bike Directs is the closest I've seen so far, they have two integrated e-bikes that look good and I've been looking at their site for six months now and they always seem to be sold out. http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/ebikes-electric-bikes-at-near-wholesale.html the Bikes are name brand MotoBecane apparently there an online only sales. I dont think you can find this brand in a LBS. From the reviews on the older bikes they seem quite positive. I have NOT been able to find any reviews on the 2021 models though.
123245014_10224383712370087_8240859962989023038_n.jpg


Any other sites I should look at or does anyone know of a link to a manufacture site if so please list. First is this a thing? Second if it is a thing how would I go about doing this?
i
Thoughts comments and suggestions. Pic of my current e-bike. Early Specialized Epic Cross Country model with BBSHD and 17ah 52v battery.
 

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m@Robertson

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
Short answer: With respect to your original post - you can't get there from here. There is no separate back door you can spirit out a bike that is otherwise name-brand. They just don't exist.
Nor are there any kits. Although thats an interesting idea for a future article - I start my builds with a parts list that goes down to the level of ferrules for the cable housing and M5 bolts for the bottle bosses. I have done some parts lists before for add-on builds. And this one is a full build missing only a couple of items


But nothing truly from-scratch including *everything*. And really, neither has anyone else that I have ever seen.

Frey does indeed have a less-than-Western-Capitalist web site, but they have earned a very, very good reputation as the absolute top drawer of turnkey ebike manufacture. Have you seen the Jeep ebike? Frey makes it (for Quietkat). Its an exclusive fat tire version of their AM1000 - and no you can't pry the frame out of them (yet). I know people who have tried recently.
 

FIDI_G

New Member
Region
USA
Dengfu are an OEM and ODM carbon manufacturer http://www.dengfubikes.com/Products/index.html

I'm currently waiting for my order to turn up and have felt no reticence ordering from them, you will see threads on here using dengfu frames and the numbers will proliferate as they assemble them and ship them.
Yeah I reached out to Dengfu and they basically sent me a list of some of their available parts but not a complete bike. For example they qouted me on a frame and battery tray but not on the battery. The frame did not come with any suspension etc... Shipping was like $400 also I think shipping cost have really gone up with in the last six months. I dont recall shipping ever being this expensive from China.
 

tomjasz

Well-Known Member
Bikes Direct shipped me a bike and it got damaged in transport. If you refuse s damaged shipment they tag us with an overpriced return fee. Instead they send parts and you repair. At the time I had no headset tools and they didn’t send a new headset base bearing. It was totally frustrating.
 

indianajo

Well-Known Member
You can't beat the shipping cost of an entire container of bikes by buying a single bike direct from the orient.
Besides there are a thousand brands of cheap throwaway bikes out there on the US market. Spokes & wheels that look just like real ones, that stretch warp & crack. Cables that require frequent adjustment because they stretch. Even some complaints about fractured frames. Looking good doesn't mean a bike will perform. Look at "known problems" threads for the different brands to determine who makes a quality bike.
The wiring of my converted bike is right out there in the open, and has been 100% reliable. By contrast with some bikes that acrue complaints that the battery cuts out. Lots of those complaints in the introductions forum, don't even make it to the brand forum to log what trash they bought.
Look at high market share bikes like trek with a couple of dozen complaints. They must have an independent QA guy in ***** to sort out the trash "metal" before it goes on the bike and in the container.
 

rich c

Well-Known Member
Have you looked at older model year eBikes? I ride 2016 models and the resale price for them is surely getting really low. Pretty soon there has to be some real Emtb that can be bought for $500 because the owner doesn't want to put money in parts.
 

Mike_V

Active Member
F.G.,
IMNSHO
You won't find another eBike as, strong, powerful, good looking, capable as the one you've built.
'The Brain' rear suspension, is too expensive to replicate now.
Today you find some soft and saggy multi link wobbly rocker suspension.
Excellent build, FS yet a big 52V battery, nice Specialized paint, fork of your choice.
Near perfect, except for climbing the Rockies, I think.
M.V.
 
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PDoz

Well-Known Member
Another way of looking at your search is to consider bikes where initial purchase price doesn't include good / ongoing customer support?

You have listed specialized, which is a great example. There is an argument new specialized customers are paying for ongoing warranty costs from them extending their 2018 bikes to a 4 year brose warranty - AND making it transferable across owners.... Those bikes were not a lot more expensive than the competition at the time, but specialized as a brand is getting increasingly expensive in the emtb world. Nb As someone considering trading up from a 3 yo giant, I'm starting to see the logic of paying a bit more for specialized support ( giant has a 2 yo non transferable warranty , so poor resale)

So, if you still want the initial low price - consider brands like YT ? Or do the maths on long term ownership

ps giant + specialized build their own frames, I'm not sure about trek but expect a large company to have a large crew of lawyers making sure you can't buy indirectly
 

FIDI_G

New Member
Region
USA
You can't beat the shipping cost of an entire container of bikes by buying a single bike direct from the orient.
Besides there are a thousand brands of cheap throwaway bikes out there on the US market. Spokes & wheels that look just like real ones, that stretch warp & crack. Cables that require frequent adjustment because they stretch. Even some complaints about fractured frames. Looking good doesn't mean a bike will perform. Look at "known problems" threads for the different brands to determine who makes a quality bike.
The wiring of my converted bike is right out there in the open, and has been 100% reliable. By contrast with some bikes that acrue complaints that the battery cuts out. Lots of those complaints in the introductions forum, don't even make it to the brand forum to log what trash they bought.
Look at high market share bikes like trek with a couple of dozen complaints. They must have an independent QA guy in ***** to sort out the trash "metal" before it goes on the bike and in the container.
This exactly why I'm looking for the "back door" to an ebike manufacture that makes ebike for the likes of Trek, Specialized and the like. I want that same quality with out the branding. I could care less if it says Trek or Huffy as long as I knew it was made of the same high standards and QA that the Trek bikes are. That's the point of the discussion. Apparently this back door or unbranded "good ebike" doesn't exist. You don't see a lot of complaints from the likes of your typical LBS type bike. For one you just take it back and they typically address any issues you have. But there is a lot to be said about the quality of materials being used for these more expensive bikes. Let's face it all the stuff is made in China even the good stuff. Not sure if Shimano is still made out of Japan or if it's all outsourced.
 

FIDI_G

New Member
Region
USA
F.G.,
IMNSHO
You won't find another eBike as, strong, powerful, good looking, capable as the one you've built.
'The Brain' rear suspension, is too expensive to replicate now.
Today you find some soft and saggy multi link wobbly rocker suspension.
Excellent build, FS yet a big 52V battery, nice Specialized paint, fork of your choice.
Near perfect, except for climbing the Rockies, I think.
M.V.
Thanks for the complements. For me my 17ah 52v pack is way to big for my style of riding. A hard expensive lesson to learn the battery was $500+ If I keep it I will order an 8ah 52v which I will be able to fit in a saddle bag and clean up the look. The most I ever ride is about 1.5 hrs and that should be plenty. The other issue is the lack of travel I only have about 100mm and I frequently bottom out the suspension. A big beefy DIY setup requires more of a trail or all mountain bike setup. The current setup is a bit too heavy for a light XC bike.

Doing a diy like mine especially if your building a trail riding bike with durability in mind requires a lot of planning and careful choice of components. The blekkie chainring is a must have and having a good quality battery is a must I went with Em3ev. The BBSHD is not with out issues though. There is a major issue with throttle sensitivity which can be overcome with a FW update but requires a special programming cable and bla bla bla and I mentioned the chainring. This issue becomes very apparent if all you do is trail ride. Also you can tweak the settings in a manager which you can get used to it and it's not that big an issue but took over a month to figure out. I will give credit where credit is do and it's pretty much bullet proof and way overpowered. I would challenge any ebike up a hill this thing climbs like a goat on PCP. It's sick. The other huge advantage is the throttle. Having the ability to bump the throttle to get you over the stump or what ever is just awesome. The last glitch I have to address and there have been many is, I will get the occasional chain pop off. I need to get a chain guide or something to address that.

My options are sell and start over with a 29er Trail /All Mountain, BBSHD, 10ah 52v similar to a Stumpjumper or bite the bullet and buy an ebike that's worth as much or more than my car lol or play the waiting game and see if I can find a bike gently used or see if I can find a good ebike at a reasonable price. Hence this thread. The only bike I've seen that I would consider in my price range but is virtually non existent is the 2021 Motobecane with the M600 bafang kit found on bikes direct.
 

Haystacks

Well-Known Member
Dengfu are an OEM and ODM carbon manufacturer http://www.dengfubikes.com/Products/index.html

I'm currently waiting for my order to turn up and have felt no reticence ordering from them, you will see threads on here using dengfu frames and the numbers will proliferate as they assemble them and ship them.

I totally forgot about this thread; The Ultra motor turned up a few days later and the frame the week after, so from order to delivery was 3 weeks for the motor and 4 for the frame.

Frame quality is very good.

20210507_130205.jpg


It is currently disassembled and prepped ready to begin the painting process tomorrow, starting with carbon adhesion primer and a good 2k primer, i can't make my mind up what colour scheme im going for yet though its either a red to black fade, matt black or a high gloss black, maybe a gloss matt mix.

I'm also undecided on battery composition too, 21700s or pouches, choices, choices, choices o_O
 
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Pro street

Member
I totally forgot about this thread; The Ultra motor turned up a few days later and the frame the week after, so from order to delivery was 3 weeks for the motor and 4 for the frame.

Frame quality is very good.

View attachment 88204

It is currently disassembled and prepped ready to begin the painting process tomorrow, starting with carbon adhesion primer and a good 2k primer, i can't make my mind up what colour scheme im going for yet though its either a red to black fade, matt black or a high gloss black, maybe a gloss matt mix.

I'm also undecided on battery composition too, 21700s or pouches, choices, choices, choices o_O
I've heard only positive things about Dengfu frames.
Beautiful frame Style, my opinion one of the best looking out there. Definitely good luck with that. It would be great if you can post photos throughout your build.
 

Haystacks

Well-Known Member
I've heard only positive things about Dengfu frames.
Beautiful frame Style, my opinion one of the best looking out there. Definitely good luck with that. It would be great if you can post photos throughout your build.
Dengfu for certain make high quality products, even if i didn't know they produce top branded frames i would have assumed so just from the carbon lay up and the finish.

Yes this frame is for a Bafang G510 which is the ultra, looking forward to testing this combo.

I'm considering doing a build thread here or maybe on emtb - emtb has lots of 'cheeb' builds going on at the moment (Dengfu E10) and this place has none, could be an interesting juxtaposition with the hydra though too; DIY vs Pre built (hydra is dengfu) Whatever happens i'll post some pics so folks can see the progress.
 

Asher

Well-Known Member
This exactly why I'm looking for the "back door" to an ebike manufacture that makes ebike for the likes of Trek, Specialized and the like. I want that same quality with out the branding. I could care less if it says Trek or Huffy as long as I knew it was made of the same high standards and QA that the Trek bikes are. That's the point of the discussion. Apparently this back door or unbranded "good ebike" doesn't exist. You don't see a lot of complaints from the likes of your typical LBS type bike. For one you just take it back and they typically address any issues you have. But there is a lot to be said about the quality of materials being used for these more expensive bikes. Let's face it all the stuff is made in China even the good stuff. Not sure if Shimano is still made out of Japan or if it's all outsourced.
It doesn't exist because there's no money in it. Quality assemblers have no problem getting business, and they're fully booked by the big name brands. Pretty standard in any industry for the big boys to get the best prices and priority in ordering. Canyon and Yamaha do more or less sell direct, and may have the best value for what they offer.

Bikesdirect manual bikes are fine, but when you actually count up the listed price plus the retail service you aren't getting, and the often old designs, it's not that much of a bargain. The best thing about BD is the variety, if it offers a kind of bike you can't find elsewhere.


It's not clear that their electric models are any better in value terms, they may be worse.
The pricing of the Diamondbacks on BD is even worse, it's retail price for a mail order product.
 

johngervais

New Member
Region
USA
I have built several off road e-mountain bikes over the years but the one thing they have in common is they still look like DIY kits. The new e-mountain bikes are fully integrated they just look awesome and IMO just next level compared to a DIY's type bike. Sure my BBSHD DIY kit performs well and the cost savings are there compared to a store bought "real e-mountain bike" but it's like buying / building a kit car. You can always tell a kit car from a manufacture built car. The idea is to buy directly from the manufacture that makes the ebikes for other big manufactures like a Specialized, Trek, Giant, SantaCruz, etc. The question is does anyone know of a manufacture in China or Taiwan that builds ebikes for Trek or any of the other big brands? Secondly does anyone know if they sell to the public direct from the manufacture? I'd like to buy direct.

Note: I dont want to spec a bike from scratch but wouldn't be opposed to assembling one if all the CORRECT matching components are part of the kit.

I've looked at Alibaba and only see lower end bikes. I did find Frey which carry nice e-bikes with better components like sram / rockshock / fox BUT they look like a startup and look like a new e-bike company. Not what I'm looking for. Want to take advantage of a proven build and manufacture that's been doing this for other companies.

Bike Directs is the closest I've seen so far, they have two integrated e-bikes that look good and I've been looking at their site for six months now and they always seem to be sold out. http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/ebikes-electric-bikes-at-near-wholesale.html the Bikes are name brand MotoBecane apparently there an online only sales. I dont think you can find this brand in a LBS. From the reviews on the older bikes they seem quite positive. I have NOT been able to find any reviews on the 2021 models though. View attachment 85283

Any other sites I should look at or does anyone know of a link to a manufacture site if so please list. First is this a thing? Second if it is a thing how would I go about doing this?
i
Thoughts comments and suggestions. Pic of my current e-bike. Early Specialized Epic Cross Country model with BBSHD and 17ah 52v battery.
I purchased a Motobecane E-Mulekick gravel/road e-bike from bikesdirect. road it for 12 miles and the electric assist stopped working. As much as I tried working with bikesdirect and Bafang I finally gave up after 2 months I finally gave up and sent the bike back.

As much as I liked the fit,ride and looks of the bike and really was hoping to get it fixed I realized that bikesdirect was pretty much no support and Bfang USA would not talk to me because I did not purchase it from them and they don't support the Bfang M800 model. With that being said I think I will try to look for an E bike that I can get support in the USA even though I'll have to pay more. 3 years ago I bought a trek e bike for my wife with a bosch mid drive. No problems to date to report
 

antboy

Well-Known Member
As much as I liked the fit,ride and looks of the bike and really was hoping to get it fixed I realized that bikesdirect was pretty much no support and Bfang USA would not talk to me because I did not purchase it from them and they don't support the Bfang M800 model.
Just curious... were you dealing with Bafang USA Direct?

It's my understanding from other posts that they're just another reseller of a couple of different Bafang kits, with no connection to Bafang itself, which is at bafang-e.com ( not bafangusadirect.com )
 

FIDI_G

New Member
Region
USA
I went and took a different approach. Started this with the intent of going back door to a manufacture of a good bike in the hopes of buying a new "generic" emtb. To be honest I did not want to spend 4-8k on a new emtb. I spend the next couple of months carefully selecting a better donar bike compared to the super light cross country bike. I found an XT spec All Trail Mountain bike and I was able to adapt my exisitng BBSHD. I also replaced my huge 17ah batterh with one suited for about 20 miles or 2hrs of trail riding off road which weighs considerably less. Since early June I've clocked 300+ miles 3-4 days a week and been avg about 1.5 -2hrs per ride so far been rock solid. I have ripped off the throttle cable by a tree but that's been the only casualty.

Granted it's certainly not as integrated as I would have liked. So buying used bike and retrofitting a DIY kit is the option I went with. I did learn some lessons along the way and if your trail riding and install 30lbs of extra weight on a frame your better off going with an Enduro / Trail or All Mountain type bike as opposed to a cross country bike and make sure you have a STRAIGHT down tube. You dont really feel the extra weight as you have a motor to propel you. I looked for a long time and found a great deal on a very well specked Trail bike 160mm/160mm XT spec well with in my budget and installed a BBSHD kit with an 8ah 52v battery 27.5" wheels. I can easily hang with my emtb buddies and on the straights I can blow by them with throttle. There are some compromises thought. The cabling although ok on this bike it's certainly a detractor and an eye sore in my view, the motor does hang a bit two low and on certain stumps I have clearance issues, and the most important issue for me is the PAS is linear not dynamic like it is on my buddies Turbo Levo. That is so smooth. It really feels like you just have more power when you pedal it seems like the harder you pedal the more assistance you get. My BBSHD although assisted it's different, just spins based on the fact that your pedaling. The one HUGE positive I have over the retail type emtb's is the throttle assist. I use this all the time and works great if approaching a steep section where you just need a bump to get you over the tough sections. Anyway I'll probably wait till everyone just dumps there really expensive emtb's and just buy one of those at a fraction of the cost. until then I'll just enjoy and ride what I got.

Before and After pics.
 

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Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove Pennsylvania
I went and took a different approach. Started this with the intent of going back door to a manufacture of a good bike in the hopes of buying a new "generic" emtb. To be honest I did not want to spend 4-8k on a new emtb. I spend the next couple of months carefully selecting a better donar bike compared to the super light cross country bike. I found an XT spec All Trail Mountain bike and I was able to adapt my exisitng BBSHD. I also replaced my huge 17ah batterh with one suited for about 20 miles or 2hrs of trail riding off road which weighs considerably less. Since early June I've clocked 300+ miles 3-4 days a week and been avg about 1.5 -2hrs per ride so far been rock solid. I have ripped off the throttle cable by a tree but that's been the only casualty.

Granted it's certainly not as integrated as I would have liked. So buying used bike and retrofitting a DIY kit is the option I went with. I did learn some lessons along the way and if your trail riding and install 30lbs of extra weight on a frame your better off going with an Enduro / Trail or All Mountain type bike as opposed to a cross country bike and make sure you have a STRAIGHT down tube. You dont really feel the extra weight as you have a motor to propel you. I looked for a long time and found a great deal on a very well specked Trail bike 160mm/160mm XT spec well with in my budget and installed a BBSHD kit with an 8ah 52v battery 27.5" wheels. I can easily hang with my emtb buddies and on the straights I can blow by them with throttle. There are some compromises thought. The cabling although ok on this bike it's certainly a detractor and an eye sore in my view, the motor does hang a bit two low and on certain stumps I have clearance issues, and the most important issue for me is the PAS is linear not dynamic like it is on my buddies Turbo Levo. That is so smooth. It really feels like you just have more power when you pedal it seems like the harder you pedal the more assistance you get. My BBSHD although assisted it's different, just spins based on the fact that your pedaling. The one HUGE positive I have over the retail type emtb's is the throttle assist. I use this all the time and works great if approaching a steep section where you just need a bump to get you over the tough sections. Anyway I'll probably wait till everyone just dumps there really expensive emtb's and just buy one of those at a fraction of the cost. until then I'll just enjoy and ride what I got.

Before and After pics.
This thread probably should be in the kits and DYI forum.