USA is backwater. EBikes are leased in Germany!

Mike leroy

Active Member
Didn't you know this? We rent, we share, we lease. I "finished off" someone else's lease on an EFlow Nitro because he had to go back to Australia. That's how I got to use the bike for 6 months. And then another buddy of his purchased the bike for the remaining 1000 dollars. And we buy step thru bikes so our wives can use the bike too.

Edit: Can't you do all this stuff in the US? Land of the credit card...
I was shocked! I think leasing is a great idea because the bike tech becomes obsolete so fast.

If you can lease in the USA, it is the world's biggest secret. I have never seen it prominently advertised.
 

Marko

Active Member
I calculated that the Stromer St1 would be about 2800€ for 36 months and after that you get a new bike or you can purchase the bike for yourself. Buying it yourself would be about 4000€. If I understood correctly they also use tax benefit as a sales argument. You can apply what they call 1% rule normally applicable to leased cars. This, to my understaning means that the workers pay tax on 1 percent of the car’s or in this case bike's list price each month. In the Stromer example that would mean 40€ month would be considered taxable income. At income tax rate of 45 percent, an employee would pay 18€ a month in taxes before deductions for business use of the bike.
So, I guess if you ride a lot getting a new bike after three years would be that bad. No idea what would be the resale value of an ST1 after three years and xxxx kilometers. Probably not that much considering the several hundred €uros battery can be pretty worn and may need replacing.
 
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Mike leroy

Active Member
I calculated that the Stromer St1 would be about 2800€ for 36 months and after that you get a new bike or you can purchase the bike for yourself. Buying it yourself would be about 4000€. If I understood correctly they also use tax benefit as a sales argument. You can apply what they call 1% rule normally applicable to leased cars. This, to my understaning means that the workers pay tax on 1 percent of the car’s or in this case bikes list price each month. In the Stromer example that would mean 40€ month would be considered taxable income. So, I guess if you ride a lot getting a new bike after three years would be that bad. No idea what would be the resale value of an ST1 after three years and xxxx kilometers. Probably not that much considering the several hundred €uros battery can be pretty worn and may need replacing.
What a co-incidence! We were thinking the exact same thing at the same time. I was trying to understand how M1 Spitzing is priced at $9000. It seems Germans look at vehicles as long-term investments, like ten year warrantied products. America is the land of cheap, disposable products, more convenient, less intelligence.

If I got the details straight, the battery has a 10 year warranty. The review has different info. The battery is used in Mercedes cars and Cessna planes. The frame also comes with a 10 year frame guarantee.

It seems the bike is priced at $900 per year, based on the assumption you will keep the bike for ten years.

Most li-ion batteries need to replaced within 3 years. Depending upon the battery, that could be around $800, using Bosch as an example. If you kept the bike for ten years, that would be $2500 in batteries! That makes the $9000 price much easier to swallow. I get dizzy when I see $5000 bike prices.
 
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Marko

Active Member
If I got the details straight, the battery has a 10 year warranty. The review has different info. The battery is used in Mercedes cars. The frame also comes with a 10 year frame guarantee.

I dont know but with the knowledge that we have on lion batteries a 10 y warranty on a battery doesnt sound like a good business plan or at least you would need several pages of disclaimers. I haven't seen Mercedes mentioned, but I read in somewhere that the M1-Sporttechnik did cooperate with Fritzmeier Group who manufactures carbon parts for the BMW i-series.
 

Mike leroy

Active Member
I dont know but with the knowledge that we have on lion batteries a 10 y warranty on a battery doesnt sound like a good business plan or at least you would need several pages of disclaimers. I haven't seen Mercedes mentioned, but I read in somewhere that the M1-Sporttechnik did cooperate with Fritzmeier Group who manufactures carbon parts for the BMW i-series.

Yes, you are on the right path. You have to dig much deeper. I put links and more detailed info in this post.

The "value proposition" is high-ticket, long-term, high value. BMZ manufactures industrial grade airplane quality.

The LFP battery chemistry is least expensive, longest-lasting, lightest, most powerful and fastest charging chemistry. Only bikes with high top-speeds needs LFP chemistry. Li-cobalt, which most manufactures use, offers higher density. The motor can be less expensive and efficient when powered by Li-Co.
 
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Mike leroy

Active Member
Motor GoSwiss Drive is used in many other bikes. The hub motor (M1 is mid-drive) quality is:
"Our rear wheel hub motors have proven themselves for years under the harshest conditions.For example, for delivery pedelec with an annual mileage of more than 100,000 kilometers. (60K miles).
 

stevenast

Well-Known Member
That makes the $9000 price much easier to swallow. I get dizzy when I see $5000 bike prices.

$5000 makes you dizzy but $9000 is OK! ;)

seriously, you're on the right track I think, about where the value is found. A quality ebike for reasonable price, that you take care of, and every few years replace the battery pack, hopefully with newer technology.
 

Mike leroy

Active Member
$5000 makes you dizzy but $9000 is OK! ;)

seriously, you're on the right track I think, about where the value is found. A quality ebike for reasonable price, that you take care of, and every few years replace the battery pack, hopefully with newer technology.
Good point. I want to replace my gas car. If I can get a motorcycle at $9000, not a bike, then I can grit my teeth and bear it. I can rationalize that I got rid of a gas car.

One thing I most like about the M1 is the bicycle weight is about 30 pounds -- without the 18Ah battery. I can enjoy a 30 pound bicycle. But I also get a motocycle that does 45mph with the battery. I like the flexibility.

I doubt I would enjoy pedaling a 40 pound bicycle.