Vado 5.0 SL: Decreased battery range after motor replacement

KAM2005

Member
Hi everyone,

My Vado 5.0 SL is 13 months old and has done about 4000 miles. It normally gives me 65+ miles range in the eco power setting (I always ride in that power mode).

Due to a clicking noise coming from the motor, I took it to a specialised dealer who put in a new motor. The clicking sound is gone but now, the battery range has declined 30% or more to 35-40 miles. This has happened immediately after I brought the bike back from the shop.

I have tried it on short and long rides. The battery is using 1% every 0.3 / 0.4 mile at the lowest power settings (1 bar, eco setting).

In the tuning section of the mission control app (which I have never bothered with before), support is at 30% with peak power at 60%. Battery health as per the app is at 100%.

A firmware update has also been performed with battery at 2.4.15 and motor at 41.7.41.

Any ideas on what might be happening or shall I take it back to the shop?

Best regards and thanks in advance.
 

kahn

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
northWET washington
Hi everyone,

My Vado 5.0 SL is 13 months old and has done about 4000 miles. It normally gives me 65+ miles range in the eco power setting (I always ride in that power mode).

Due to a clicking noise coming from the motor, I took it to a specialised dealer who put in a new motor. The clicking sound is gone but now, the battery range has declined 30% or more to 35-40 miles. This has happened immediately after I brought the bike back from the shop.

I have tried it on short and long rides. The battery is using 1% every 0.3 / 0.4 mile at the lowest power settings (1 bar, eco setting).

In the tuning section of the mission control app (which I have never bothered with before), support is at 30% with peak power at 60%. Battery health as per the app is at 100%.

A firmware update has also been performed with battery at 2.4.15 and motor at 41.7.41.

Any ideas on what might be happening or shall I take it back to the shop?

Best regards and thanks in advance.

I will just ask, do you know what the MIssion Control settings were before they changed out the motor. Maybe with a new motor, Mission Control or the bike shop tweaked the values and changed them? Can you tell if you are using more effort than before?
 

KAM2005

Member
Hi,

Good question, I don't know as I did not pay much attention to it until now, as the range and support was fine.

I am getting good response from the bike which I thought was because of the new motor.

I will adjust the power settings for Eco and see how it goes.

Regards,
 

Nubnub

Active Member
I think the default Eco settings for a Vado SL are 35 support 35 peak power. Since you also noted a good response with the new motor, I'm guessing it is because of the 30/60 difference in the setting from default Eco settings. Depending on how much rider power you provide, it's likely that the 60% peak power setting is providing additional boost that causes the additional battery drain you are noting.
 

AzDave

Member
Region
USA
Hi everyone,

My Vado 5.0 SL is 13 months old and has done about 4000 miles. It normally gives me 65+ miles range in the eco power setting (I always ride in that power mode).

Due to a clicking noise coming from the motor, I took it to a specialised dealer who put in a new motor. The clicking sound is gone but now, the battery range has declined 30% or more to 35-40 miles. This has happened immediately after I brought the bike back from the shop.

I have tried it on short and long rides. The battery is using 1% every 0.3 / 0.4 mile at the lowest power settings (1 bar, eco setting).

In the tuning section of the mission control app (which I have never bothered with before), support is at 30% with peak power at 60%. Battery health as per the app is at 100%.

A firmware update has also been performed with battery at 2.4.15 and motor at 41.7.41.

Any ideas on what might be happening or shall I take it back to the shop?

Best regards and thanks in advance.
My wife's Como 3.0 is doing exactly the same thing.. Motor started with clicking then went out completely. We just replaced the motor and now have very decreased battery range....more than 30%! I noticed when we turned on smart control for a customized ride with mission control it alleviates the problem.. In general the mission control settings are identical to before..factory default settings. The guys working at the bike store are at a loss. Have you figured anything out yet?
 
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AzDave

Member
Region
USA
I will just ask, do you know what the MIssion Control settings were before they changed out the motor. Maybe with a new motor, Mission Control or the bike shop tweaked the values and changed them? Can you tell if you are using more effort than before?
Having the exact same problem with como 3 0...The mission control settings are the same as far as I can tell. They are factory default. Don't know if some 'secret' settings are in play but the obvious stuff seems the same as before.
 

AzDave

Member
Region
USA
This thread is so right on with my wife's Como I feel like I wrote it. We had this bike the same amount of time with about the same amount of miles as KAM2005. The clicking...the motor replacement..the immediate and SUBSTANTIAL decrease in battery range. Today took it to a different authorized dealer...ran diagnostics...everything checks out.
 

AzDave

Member
Region
USA
You might want to rename the thread "Decreased battery range after motor replacement"...Hopefully we get more posters with the same problem/solutions
 

Art Deco

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Selinsgrove Pennsylvania
It really sounds like Specialized changed the factory default from 30/30 to 30/60 or something. Following.
 

KAM2005

Member
Hi,

I have changed the settings for Eco to the default and the problem has substantially disappeared.

I still think there has been a decrease after changing the motor but it is less noticeable so this issue closed for me at the moment.

Best regards
 

AzDave

Member
Region
USA
Hi,

I have changed the settings for Eco to the default and the problem has substantially disappeared.

I still think there has been a decrease after changing the motor but it is less noticeable so this issue closed for me at the moment.

Best regards
I have to look into that but the settings are the same as before. But maybe changing them a to a decreased setting will help.
 

AzDave

Member
Region
USA
Hi,

I have changed the settings for Eco to the default and the problem has substantially disappeared.

I still think there has been a decrease after changing the motor but it is less noticeable so this issue closed for me at the moment.

Best regards
Just curious what your settings are. It's got me thinking though and I hope you or others will enlighten me. Her factory settings have always been 35/100, 75/100, 100/100...which seems strange because on my Creo they are 30/30, 60/60, 100/100. So I guess matching all the numbers is the way to go? Or playing around with them to fine tune it more? Just really wondering why the second set of numbers are 100 on her Como. Curious too why those numbers worked before but not now with battery longevity. But maybe they didn't really work at all because her motor fried after a single year.

What do those second set of numbers mean? What works for you guys?
 
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AzDave

Member
Region
USA
I'll let you guys know after our next ride with the new changed settings. But we both are dealing with a case of food poisoning right now 🤢 Until then throw some numbers at us if you want although it seems matching them up across the board is the way to go.
 

KAM2005

Member
Hi,

If the 2nd number is power and not support, then it means that the battery is providing full power in every mode. That would substantially decrease battery life.My settings are 35/35, 60/60, 100/100.

There is a YouTube video on this subject. Hope it helps.


Best regards,
 

AzDave

Member
Region
USA
Hi,

If the 2nd number is power and not support, then it means that the battery is providing full power in every mode. That would substantially decrease battery life.My settings are 35/35, 60/60, 100/100.

There is a YouTube video on this subject. Hope it helps.


Best regards,
Thanks very much Kam. That is a helpful video for sure. 👍
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
Just curious what your settings are. It's got me thinking though and I hope you or others will enlighten me. Her factory settings have always been 30/100, 70/100, 100/100...which seems strange because on my Creo they are 30/30, 60/60, 100/100.
Just to make the answer more precise:
  • The first number is the percentage of the maximum leg power amplification factor. 100% means 1.8x for Creo, and 3.2x for Como 3. If the assistance is set to 50%, 100 W of rider's leg power would make the Creo motor respond with 1.8 * 0.5 * 100 = 90 W of assistance. Como 3 would have answered with 3.2 * 0.5 * 100 = 180 W of support.
  • The second number is the cap on maximum power the motor can deliver. 100% is 240 W for Creo, and 520 W for Como 3. If the Max Motor Power is kept at 50%, the Creo motor would never deliver more than 120 W of assistance, and the Como 3 motor would have the power ceiling at 260 W.
Let us assume the Como setting is 100/50. The Como rider would input 100 W of leg power. That would mean asking for 3.2 * 100 = 320 W. Yet, the ceiling has been set at 260 W, and the motor would never deliver more than 260 W. I hope it is understandable.

If the second number is set high, the e-bike is very flexible, accelerates swiftly, and eats the battery. Setting the second number lower is for reducing the e-bike power and conserving the battery energy for range. It is practical to keep both numbers equal so the Creo defaults are very reasonable while your wife's Como ones are not. I suggest to set these on Como to 35/35, 60/60, 100/100 as Kam said.
 

BEC111

Well-Known Member
Just curious what your settings are. It's got me thinking though and I hope you or others will enlighten me. Her factory settings have always been 30/100, 70/100, 100/100...which seems strange because on my Creo they are 30/30, 60/60, 100/100. So I guess matching all the numbers is the way to go? Or playing around with them to fine tune it more? Just really wondering why the second set of numbers are 100 on her Como. Curious too why those numbers worked before but not now with battery longevity. But maybe they didn't really work at all because her motor fried after a single year.

What do those second set of numbers mean? What works for you guys?
I’ve been playing with my settings over the summer. I started using the 35/100, 70/100 settings to see what happened. Two things. One, I could ride in Eco and if I peddled hard and fast could accelerate up hills in any gear. Since I was also tryng to ride at a constant cadence regardless of speed and to also ride slower to stay with my senior analog riding friends this setting allowed me to both go slow and have momentum for the hills.

The downside is greater battery drain on rides where cadence and effort was high. Since I have a RE, battery drain isn’t an issue. The curious other effect is that on more casual rides, battery drain was not really affected. It was more in line with the more traditional power setting shifting.

I’ve subsequently reset to a more modest 35/70, 50/85, 100/100. I’ve only been on two rides since, so can’t measure the effects.

One thing I can definitely say about the 35/100 setting. Controlling speed is easier - increased boost as cadence increases is totally transparent. If I find myself going faster than I want on the flat, I just brake a little and downshift until the motor just barely engages.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
One thing I can definitely say about the 35/100 setting. Controlling speed is easier - increased boost as cadence increases is totally transparent. If I find myself going faster than I want on the flat, I just brake a little and downshift until the motor just barely engages.

This must be a very interesting setting for an SL e-bike. I'm going to try it and compare with my 110+ km on 60/60 (with Range Extender). Do you think BEC 35/100 would do for 70 miles on the flat?
 

AzDave

Member
Region
USA
Just to make the answer more precise:
  • The first number is the percentage of the maximum leg power amplification factor. 100% means 1.8x for Creo, and 3.2x for Como 3. If the assistance is set to 50%, 100 W of rider's leg power would make the Creo motor respond with 1.8 * 0.5 * 100 = 90 W of assistance. Como 3 would have answered with 3.2 * 0.5 * 100 = 180 W of support.
  • The second number is the cap on maximum power the motor can deliver. 100% is 240 W for Creo, and 520 W for Como 3. If the Max Motor Power is kept at 50%, the Creo motor would never deliver more than 120 W of assistance, and the Como 3 motor would have the power ceiling at 260 W.
Let us assume the Como setting is 100/50. The Como rider would input 100 W of leg power. That would mean asking for 3.2 * 100 = 320 W. Yet, the ceiling has been set at 260 W, and the motor would never deliver more than 260 W. I hope it is understandable.

If the second number is set high, the e-bike is very flexible, accelerates swiftly, and eats the battery. Setting the second number lower is for reducing the e-bike power and conserving the battery energy for range. It is practical to keep both numbers equal so the Creo defaults are very reasonable while your wife's Como ones are not. I suggest to set these on Como to 35/35, 60/60, 100/100 as Kam said.

Thanks. VERY helpful!

I think as far as her Como the range is the most important factor. She has made great strides the last year as far as losing weight and endurance. Plus she really wants a good workout so these numbers should reflect that. On our super long rides she might need presets as low as 20/20 or 50/50 thrown in there. Her battery is at 90% health so we are trying to get more milage out of that until we upgrade to the bigger 600w battery.

Kinda curious about something...does anyone know when we upgrade the battery down the road if the face plate on the current battery is transferable to the new battery? I see some screws but the lbs said it's "glued" but his opinions about things seemed questionable....She loves the color of her bike and I'd like to keep it all one color instead of a black battery on there looking obvious.
 
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AzDave

Member
Region
USA
I’ve been playing with my settings over the summer. I started using the 35/100, 70/100 settings to see what happened. Two things. One, I could ride in Eco and if I peddled hard and fast could accelerate up hills in any gear. Since I was also tryng to ride at a constant cadence regardless of speed and to also ride slower to stay with my senior analog riding friends this setting allowed me to both go slow and have momentum for the hills.

The downside is greater battery drain on rides where cadence and effort was high. Since I have a RE, battery drain isn’t an issue. The curious other effect is that on more casual rides, battery drain was not really affected. It was more in line with the more traditional power setting shifting.

I’ve subsequently reset to a more modest 35/70, 50/85, 100/100. I’ve only been on two rides since, so can’t measure the effects.

One thing I can definitely say about the 35/100 setting. Controlling speed is easier - increased boost as cadence increases is totally transparent. If I find myself going faster than I want on the flat, I just brake a little and downshift until the motor just barely engages.
Interesting.

As far as her Como she has complained that sometimes it's too easy. It's 95% flats where we live so I think the 100/100 setting is all she would need for the occasional hill. Since her bike is so heavy plus she has a storage bag on the back she needs the bailout 100/100. But other than that I need to dial back these other settings IMO. On eco and sport we might initially try 30/30 and 60/60 and see how it goes. Range is an overriding factor to us so that plays a big part in this.

This board is so helpful. My lbs is great in some ways but clueless to some things as well. This board fills in the gaps for me. 🙂