Vado 5 IGH problems on steep hill

Onimaru

Active Member
Region
USA
Thank you; Calibrating seems like it may make a huge difference on the IGH. I didn't calibrate mine, I don't think Guru did either.. very interesting
I haven’t calibrated mine. It is stock the way it came. I can climb a hill of the same grade as Joshelley in Turbo at 8 mph without much effort. The IGH is no different than how any other Enviolo 380 would perform on that same hill. It just shifts for you. The Vado design is not the problem in my opinion.
 

Joshelley

New Member
Region
USA
I recalibrated my bike following the directions in the manual. Before recalibration, I went up the hill at about 5 mph and the motor appeared to struggle a little. After recalibration, I can go up 7 mph and the motor doesn’t struggle at all. The shifting is seamless!!
 

scrambler

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Bay Area, CA
Unless I am messing up the calculations, I am a bit confused by the earlier gear ratio remarks (Enviolo limiting climbing ability).

ENVIOLO:
  • The Enviolo version uses a 24T rear and 50T front
  • The Enviolo internal gearing is 0.5 to 1.9 (380% range)
  • This means the Overall pedaling ratio ranges goes from 1.04 to 3.96
  • With 650 wheels and 2.3 tires,
    This means at a 70 rpm cadence the pedaling speed goes from 7 mph to 25 mph

DERAILLEUR:
  • The cassette is 11-42T which is a 382% range (only 2% more than Enviolo)
  • It is paired with a 48T front which gives an overall pedaling ratio of 1.14 to 4.26
  • With 650 wheels and 2.3 tires,
    This means at a 70 rpm cadence the pedaling speed goes from 7.2 mph to 27.4 mph

So slightly better low speed (hill climb) range for Enviolo, and slightly better top speed for the derailleur
But really not much difference at all
 

Gee_Whiz

Active Member
I haven’t calibrated mine. It is stock the way it came. I can climb a hill of the same grade as Joshelley in Turbo at 8 mph without much effort. The IGH is no different than how any other Enviolo 380 would perform on that same hill. It just shifts for you. The Vado design is not the problem in my opinion.
Thank you for the datapoint!
 

Onimaru

Active Member
Region
USA
Unless I am messing up the calculations, I am a bit confused by the earlier gear ratio remarks (Enviolo limiting climbing ability).

ENVIOLO:
  • The Enviolo version uses a 24T rear and 50T front
  • The Enviolo internal gearing is 0.5 to 1.9 (380% range)
  • This means the Overall pedaling ratio ranges goes from 1.04 to 3.96
  • With 650 wheels and 2.3 tires,
    This means at a 70 rpm cadence the pedaling speed goes from 7 mph to 25 mph

DERAILLEUR:
  • The cassette is 11-42T which is a 382% range (only 2% more than Enviolo)
  • It is paired with a 48T front which gives an overall pedaling ratio of 1.14 to 4.26
  • With 650 wheels and 2.3 tires,
    This means at a 70 rpm cadence the pedaling speed goes from 7.2 mph to 27.4 mph

So slightly better low speed (hill climb) range for Enviolo, and slightly better top speed for the derailleur
But really not much difference at all
Being an engineer I love math. I just never cared to check the gear ratios. I push 80ish usually so lines up with my 8ish mph speed if 70 gives you 7 mph.
 

GuruUno

Well-Known Member
Thank you; Calibrating seems like it may make a huge difference on the IGH. I didn't calibrate mine, I don't think Guru did either.. very interesting
Are you indicating that the LBS is the responsible entity to perform the calibration? Or is it for the user to perform? This is the issue. The bike shops have no training or clue as to how to prep the bikes.
 

Gee_Whiz

Active Member
Are you indicating that the LBS is the responsible entity to perform the calibration? Or is it for the user to perform? This is the issue. The bike shops have no training or clue as to how to prep the bikes.
Neither. I was referring to IGH's that weren't calibrated. Whether its on the user or the shop is a different issue, but the OP calibrated theirs and their issues were eradicated. Another user (Onimaru), didnt calibrate their's and is satisfied with the bike's performance.
 
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Onimaru

Active Member
Region
USA
Neither. I was referring to IGH's that weren't calibrated. Whether its on the user or the shop is a different issue, but the OP calibrated theirs and their issues were eradicated. Another user (Onimaru), didnt calibrate their's and is satisfied with the bike's performance.

This is the correct answer, neither. It should come right from the factory as part of the QA QC process. The shops should also have training on how to fix it from Specialized.

That said, as I’ve mentioned before, it’s a new model year and it takes time to learn. It’s no different than what happens with autos and dealer mechanics.

Not only that, it’s the first IGH EBike they have. And they didn’t even use the standard manual shift for the top trim. They went straight to the Cadillac.

There is also the point of them releasing it globally in a pandemic where getting s*it done is much harder than it was in 2019.

Life takes patience.
 

scrambler

Well-Known Member
Region
USA
City
Bay Area, CA
Being an engineer I love math. I just never cared to check the gear ratios. I push 80ish usually so lines up with my 8ish mph speed if 70 gives you 7 mph.
If you want to play with the gear ratios, wheel sizes and pedaling speeds on various gear systems, I have an Excel file to play with :)
You have to download the file to be able to change variables.
 

GuruUno

Well-Known Member
This is the correct answer, neither. It should come right from the factory as part of the QA QC process. The shops should also have training on how to fix it from Specialized.

That said, as I’ve mentioned before, it’s a new model year and it takes time to learn. It’s no different than what happens with autos and dealer mechanics.

Not only that, it’s the first IGH EBike they have. And they didn’t even use the standard manual shift for the top trim. They went straight to the Cadillac.

There is also the point of them releasing it globally in a pandemic where getting s*it done is much harder than it was in 2019.

Life takes patience.
However, you don't buy a Ferrari and worry if the dealer has capable, trained, and competent persons on staff that can maintain, fix and have all the knowledge to care for your investment, toy, or fun ride. Specialized is no exception. It's an identical situation that I experienced with Trek (which is heavily documented in the Trek forum). That summary was that Bosch (844-723-2453=E-Bike Hotline) informed me that there was no certified, trained, or licensed staff at any New Jersey facility (bike stores) with the exception of only one on Rt. 10 in North Jersey. Upon having that conversation with Jason Schumacher (Customer Service Manager for Trek in the US), he suggested we part ways and refunded my purchase.
The point of this reference is exactly the very same scenario. As a Specialized "believer", how is it that we, here, in the US can rely upon, depend upon, and have belief in the capabilities of the local bike shop we choose to deal with after making a several thousand dollar purchase of a bike? We are reliant upon their training, knowledge, and understanding of the technology associated with the products that they sell.
I am an early adopter. As such, if I choose to invest in the latest and greatest bike that Specialized produces, I can only hope that LBS I choose has certified, trained, and competent staff.
THAT is the problem. I can get into finger-pointing, share experiences, and even have all of those who participate in these forums agree or disagree, but the simple fact remains that you cannot introduce new technology and dump it in the consumers' lap and have the supporting dealers have limited knowledge of that new technology.
This is the major reason I chose to use Hilltop Bicycles, as the previously independently owned 7-store chain in the NJ/NY area was bought out by Specialized and became "company" stores. One might think that by dealing with a "company" store that they would have a better understanding of the new technology and have more training.
Well, not.
I truly was hoping that the IGH model was going to be the perfect bike for my wife, but I never allowed her to even ride her bike after I did about 150 miles on mine and discovered its flaws, faults, or misgivings (in my opinion).
Quite frankly, Specialized should have sent out a factory representative to the LBS with a trained person to investigate, review and correct any misconfigurations, etc., etc.
It might have made a world of difference.
 

Onimaru

Active Member
Region
USA
When my mom wanted to get married to a guy that had been divorced 4 times, I made the comment that maybe it wasn’t the 4 separate ex-wives fault each time. Seems like a similar result here.

Imagine being so arrogant and ignorant of it that you don’t “allow” your wife to try something for herself and form her own opinions.

There really is no point in using reason here since there’s always a better argument for you to make and your experience holds so much more weight than everyone else’s. Sometimes you get a lemon. Sucks you drew the short straw. Stop pissing in everyone’s cheerios.
 

GuruUno

Well-Known Member
When my mom wanted to get married to a guy that had been divorced 4 times, I made the comment that maybe it wasn’t the 4 separate ex-wives fault each time. Seems like a similar result here.

Imagine being so arrogant and ignorant of it that you don’t “allow” your wife to try something for herself and form her own opinions.

There really is no point in using reason here since there’s always a better argument for you to make and your experience holds so much more weight than everyone else’s. Sometimes you get a lemon. Sucks you drew the short straw. Stop pissing in everyone’s cheerios.
I did not want her to complain to me, be disappointed, or I having to make excuses, and to avoid all of that I chose that path. (don't even let her try it because I did not have any answers for why things happened, etc.)
You are surely entitled to your opinion. I'm only proactively sharing my first-hand, early adopter, first one out the gate experience so that others may be alerted to the deficiencies, problems, and experiences that I had. Some may wish to go back to the LBS more than 3 times in 2 weeks and get answers like, "If the Motor Error happens again, just turn off the power and turn it back on, we don't have a solution", then they would be the fool, not me.
I only speak from experience, and as I referenced in a previous post about being an "early adopter" for a 2013 Ford Focus EV 9 years ago as a perfect example, the same exact situation would happen, "STOP SAFELY NOW" on the dash and the car dies as you pull out into an intersection. (reference: http://www.myfocuselectric.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=900&start=590 )
My wife refused to be a passenger in the car (or even drive it) after it occurred 3 times. No dealer had a clue as to how to even diagnose let alone fix it. God bless the lemon law.
She thanks me for my foresight to be the early warning insight.
I could just see her falling off of the IGH bike going up a hill because the bike was not properly configured, set up, calibrated, and then having to bring it back to the dealer in a possible damaged state. Yea, that would have gone over really well.
So, Omnimaru, would you go out and purchase a vehicle or bike that had know deficiencies or that had issues your firsthand experienced and just hand the keys over to your significant other?
THAT is what I would call ignorant.
Being appreciative of the fact that life is not all peaches and cream and that we have to accept products that do not meet advertised specifications or suffer incapable setup, configuration, or maintenance is unacceptable.
It's the real world dude, I see it every single day and just happen to be writing a book.
You WILL be shocked when you read it, as long as I'm not assassinated before it is published. (I'm absolutely sure some of you would love for me to go away....but think of all the good factual info brought to the discussions)
LOTS of real juicy reality factual stuff that you will not believe.
In another year or 2, I may be completed, been working on it for over 10 years, I promise you......you will be awakened.
 

Gee_Whiz

Active Member
As a point of comparison, I picked up a 2022 Giant Fast Road E+, I think its a 2022, but could be a re-distributed 2021 (https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/fastroad-eplus-ex-pro-28mph-2022 they took the link down for the '22s) to see how the ride compared to the newer tech in the Vado.. and so far, it just fits my riding style better. The Yamaha motor seems about on par with the Bosch CX in that it has good low-end torque, but also pretty good top-end speed. The bike doesn't pedal as smoothly or as quietly as the IGH, but it's on par with what you get from most standard derailleur ebikes, although theres a loud pitched whine when pedaling from the rear gears when not pedaling.. not sure what it is. ive heard it on other bikes before, just not as loud. A hill that I usually take at 10mph on the Allant +8, dropped to around 7 on the IGH, and is back to around 10-12 on the Giant. Could be due to a number of factors though. I haven't delved into the software much, but from what ive read, most people use a Garmin app to control settings. Oddly, even at about 10+ pounds heavier, the IGH pedals better off of the motor.


View attachment 121439
View attachment 121436
View attachment 121437

So I have to say, after a number of rides this week on the FastRoad E.. this bike is PHENOMENAL.. its probably the best commuter pedal-assist bike I've ridden (havent ridden a Vado SL though), the FastRoad E is the first bike that feels like its a super-powered normal bike.. it just rides sooooo well. There's 6 different power levels (eco, tour, active, sport, power), but the best of them all is auto which accurately measures the cadence you're pedaling at and delivers exactly the level of assist you need with zero delay. It's something I think the IGH could actually approve upon in their "auto" mode. Mileage in auto seems be around 55-60 estimated. The bike also rides really well off motor (off mode vs powered off), I was able to get it to 15ish mph with normal effort and 18-20 with effort.

Its rigid everywhere, so could use a redshift stem and seatpost and probably ergo grips; its an 11-36t, 10speed(42t chainring), so no idea how this will do for climbs, and is probable too bulky to serve as a gravel bike of any sort, but for general commuting its fantastic.
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
but the best of them all is auto which accurately measures the cadence you're pedaling at and delivers exactly the level of assist you need with zero delay.
1651213367871.png

The Giant Auto mode is unpredictable regarding the battery consumption, and the Range estimates have been made for a strong person riding the e-bike (these estimates should be halved for my person).

I had two Auto rides with the 500 Wh battery, and I always was returning on my own pedal power. In the example above, it was 10 km of pedalling off-road unassisted and in torrential rain. The battery was good for 53 km (33 mi).

1651213689865.png

I have never used the Giant Auto mode since. And I will never forget that trip when the marsh tried to suck me in and I had no power to just ride out of it.

In case of Specialized e-bikes, you can use the Smart Control to far better effect. You at least will always return on the battery.
 

Gee_Whiz

Active Member
View attachment 121687
The Giant Auto mode is unpredictable regarding the battery consumption, and the Range estimates have been made for a strong person riding the e-bike (these estimates should be halved for my person).

I had two Auto rides with the 500 Wh battery, and I always was returning on my own pedal power. In the example above, it was 10 km of pedalling off-road unassisted and in torrential rain. The battery was good for 53 km (33 mi).

View attachment 121688
I have never used the Giant Auto mode since. And I will never forget that trip when the marsh tried to suck me in and I had no power to just ride out of it.

In case of Specialized e-bikes, you can use the Smart Control to far better effect. You at least will always return on the battery.
Could the software have improved, or is it the same on each model? There doesn't seem to be any additional settings on the Giant RideDash EVO. And do you know if the other modes are more accurate in estimation?
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
Could the software have improved, or is it the same on each model? There doesn't seem to be any additional settings on the Giant RideDash EVO.
The Giant Auto mode generally works by alternating between Level 2 and 3 of your current assistance. You can tune the assistance levels with your RideControl app. If you reduce these assistance levels one step down, expect less assistance but better range.
And do you know if the other modes are more accurate in estimation?
It is only the matter of your experience with the FastRoad E+, that is, riding longer distances a lot and comparing the actual range with the predicted one. A hint: my brother gets his average leg power reading in Strava as 120 W, and his pedalling power on cruising is consistent at 180 W. He gets quite accurate Range estimates from the same e-bike I rode (it is very the same e-bike anyway!) My reported average leg power is 60-80 W, and it is 100 W during the ride: my actual range was the half of the predicted value.

Warning: Do not take the last 20% battery charge in the consideration. When you reach the 20%, the battery level drops as fast as a landslide! (It is a known phenomenon for Giant e-bikes).
 

Stefan Mikes

Well-Known Member
Region
Europe
City
Brwinów (PL)
@Gee_Whiz: It is all about how strong you are. Here's a story.

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We went together with brother on a 75 mile ride in September 2020 (he rode the Giant). He was using Eco off-road, and often rode in OFF mode on asphalt downwind. The Trance E+ was equipped with the 625 Wh battery, and a spare (500 Wh) was carried in a pannier. At some point of the ride I suggested that brother could swap his battery. And it turned out he had forgotten taking the battery key with him! So he had to take care of himself...

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It actually was 120 km but he returned with 28% left! It was because of his tremendous own input in the ride!